19 Cats And Counting

BIO:

Dr. Karen Kline is joining the team at VCA Northwest Veterinary Specialists on November 1, 2019. Previously, she was a Neurologist at Veterinary Specialty Center of Seattle from 2008 to 2019 and Medical Director at Veterinary Specialty Center of Seattle from 2013 through 2018 respectively. She received her DVM degree from the The Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine in 1989 and completed a rotating internship at the Animal Medical Center in New York City in 1990.

She stayed at AMC and completed her neurology residency in 1993 and stayed on a year as staff neurologist until 1994. In 1994, she became board certified in veterinary neurology through the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine that same year. From 1995 through 2008, Dr. Kline was an associate professor of neurology and neurosurgery at Iowa State College of Veterinary Medicine.

While there she obtained her Master of Science degree in veterinary pathology and completed her thesis on Immunohistochemical Differentiation of Canine Inflammatory and Infectious diseases. She has published multiple journal articles, has been an author in several veterinary textbooks and has spoken at local, national and international meetings. She obtained her certification in veterinary acupuncture in 2000. Her special interests are neurosurgery, inflammatory and infectious central nervous system diseases and spinal cord injury and therapeutics.

Dr. Kline has always enjoyed the Pacific Northwest and enjoys spending her free time with her husband, and dog extraordinaire, Voodie.

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Linda Hall: Hey, my fellow cat-loving friends.

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Linda Hall: We are so excited because we, Rita and I, working with behavior, have had a lot of questions about neurological problems that can affect our cats.

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Linda Hall: So we take advantage of the podcast, and we find us an expert.

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Linda Hall: And we have Dr.

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Linda Hall: Karen Kline here.

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Linda Hall: She is a veterinarian, and she specializes in neurologic issues.

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Linda Hall: And she is here to discuss some of the common neurologic issues that can happen with cats, what that looks like, and what we need to do.

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Linda Hall: We are so excited to talk to her right after this word from our sponsor.

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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.

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Linda Hall: Welcome back to 19 Cats and Counting.

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Linda Hall: I am your co-host, Linda Hall, here with my ever gorgeous blonde bombshell, BFF, my ride or die, Rita Reimers.

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Rita Reimers: With the red eyes right now, because allergy season.

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Linda Hall: I'm telling you.

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Dr. Karen Kline: It's awful.

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Rita Reimers: Let's go right to Dr.

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Rita Reimers: Karen.

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Rita Reimers: She is more than just a veterinarian.

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Linda Hall: Oh, she's a lot.

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Rita Reimers: You have a lot on your plate.

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Linda Hall: Neurologic anomalies is the subject of the day, but there's other things I'd like to talk to Dr.

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Linda Hall: Karen about sometime like acupuncture.

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Linda Hall: I got a whole bunch of questions for her.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Oh my gosh.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Would love to.

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Linda Hall: Yes, you've got to come back and talk about the acupuncture.

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Linda Hall: I know I am.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Let's do it.

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Dr. Karen Kline: I have a whole list.

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Linda Hall: God bless you.

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Linda Hall: We love it.

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Linda Hall: We learn so much.

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Rita Reimers: We do.

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Linda Hall: From specialists like you that help us in our behavior because we are certainly not veterinarians, but we need to know when to say, this is above our pay grade.

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Linda Hall: You need this.

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Linda Hall: So first of all, I want to start with the specialties.

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Linda Hall: I'm old.

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Linda Hall: I'm 57.

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Linda Hall: Back in the day.

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Rita Reimers: I'm gonna be 63 this year.

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Rita Reimers: Talk to me when you're 60.

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Linda Hall: Vets were vets were vets.

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Linda Hall: And now we've got all of these specialties, which makes sense because we do for people too.

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Linda Hall: So how is this helpful?

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Linda Hall: And what is it exactly that you're doing?

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Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And I think that's a really good question.

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Dr. Karen Kline: You know, when, just like in human medicine, when we have a certain issue, you know, you go to your general practitioner and they say, gosh, you know, we need to send you to a specialist.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And in veterinary medicine, there's a bunch of specialties like, just like internal medicine, neurology, cardiology, radiology, oncology, radiation oncology.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So it's a very big corollary to the human, you know, situation, but the conduit is your general practitioner.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So in terms of neurology, we deal with problems with the brain, the spinal cord and the muscles and nerves, same kind of thing.

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Dr. Karen Kline: The only difference is, you know, our exam on a little kitty cat is gonna be vastly different than what we do on a human, but nonetheless, you know, we first wanna just get a history and make sure that everybody's on the same page in terms of what's happening with your little furry creature.

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Rita Reimers: Right, and I think sometimes the behavior issues, you know, people think it's a behavior issue, and that won't necessarily find anything.

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Rita Reimers: You know, he might know you need to see neurological specialists like I have.

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Rita Reimers: We'll talk about that later.

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Rita Reimers: But how do people know this is really behavioral versus I really need to get my cat in to see a specialist because I just give up, this behavior's never gonna change?

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Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah, really good question.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And that's, I get a lot of questions about behavior as well, but some things to look for, especially, if you've got one or two cats or if you've got 11 cats or whatnot.

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Rita Reimers: Or 18.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Or 18, exactly.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Whenever I talk to a client about the difference between behavior and neuro, for example, if we see a little kitty cat who's failing to jump, well, because kitty cats are really, really agile.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So if they're missing when they're jumping, because some cats are able to jump all the way up on top of the refrigerator, and it's nothing for them.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So if they're having trouble with that, or if they're circling in one direction, or if they're losing their balance, we know that probably that's more of a neurologic issue, then it is a behavioral issue.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And also not using those back legs.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Remember, kitty cats will sometimes have underlying heart disease where they can throw blood clots to their vessels in their back legs or their front limbs, and they can present not walking or limping.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So we need to be keyed in on those things as well.

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Rita Reimers: I lost one of my cats, my Colby, to a blood clot.

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Linda Hall: Oh no, it's terrible.

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Rita Reimers: By the time he came downstairs, he died.

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Rita Reimers: I couldn't even get him anywhere to get him up that.

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Rita Reimers: It was quick.

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Dr. Karen Kline: I think kitty cats are very good at hiding things more so than dogs are.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And so many times these things come on so quickly that owners feel guilty about, oh my gosh, I should have known this sooner, but it's not anybody's fault.

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Dr. Karen Kline: It just can happen.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So I think we just need to give each other some grace.

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Rita Reimers: Well, I just got nervous though, because my Dexter doesn't jump well.

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Rita Reimers: He never does.

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Linda Hall: I was just going to ask about that.

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Linda Hall: So Dexter shows no other signs of any other problems, but he will be on the chair behind her, and he's like, and then sometimes he misses the desk.

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Linda Hall: So, you know, we chuckle at him from time to time, but there could be a neurological problem.

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Linda Hall: But if it's not affecting in any other way, is it something we need to look into, or is it just, he's got an issue?

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Dr. Karen Kline: You know, that's a really good question, because just like what Lady Gaga says, born this way, sometimes these guys are born without a certain portion of their brain being developed well.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And one of those parts of the brain without going into anatomy is that part of the brain called the cerebellum.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And I don't know if your listeners, or you guys know about the condition called cerebellar hypoplasia, where that portion of the brain doesn't develop well, and it can be secondary to a viral infection.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And it's non-progressive.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So if Dexter is going about his daily business without a care, I wouldn't worry about it.

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Dr. Karen Kline: That could be just him.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah, yeah.

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Linda Hall: He's actually one of the least cats with the care in the world.

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Linda Hall: He's just like, anybody fuses at him, he's just like, dude, can't we be friends?

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Linda Hall: And he's just, yes, he's just the most easygoing cat I have ever seen her easiest integration.

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Linda Hall: He just moved in and went high.

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Rita Reimers: He showed up on my deck and that was it.

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Dr. Karen Kline: He knew, he knew exactly what he was getting into.

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Rita Reimers: On the other hand, the little Max I took in, he ended up having toxinoplasmosis infection of the brain stem on.

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Rita Reimers: I had to take him to a neurologist to diagnose.

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Rita Reimers: He started having, you know, his front limbs would stiffen.

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Rita Reimers: He's had a few seizures.

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Rita Reimers: Dr.

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Rita Reimers: Faber thought massive doses of antibiotic that we might be able to get him through it, but we just couldn't.

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Rita Reimers: We had to let him go.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Sometimes that can be overwhelming.

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Dr. Karen Kline: But I think to that point, and this is what's really interesting about neurology is, you know, what I do is first get my client into a room and let the cat walk around.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And you know how kitty cats are.

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Dr. Karen Kline: They don't sometimes like to be, you know, held too much.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So it's all about observation and also what my client's really, what their aspirations are in terms of, you know, what they want.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Because again, as I had mentioned before, not everybody has thousands of dollars for imaging.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So the first thing that I do is get a really good history, but also do my physical and neurologic exams.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And it's a routine.

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Dr. Karen Kline: I love just doing physical exams and neuro exams, especially on little fractious kitties.

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Dr. Karen Kline: They're challenging.

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Dr. Karen Kline: But the other thing about neurology that's really cool is when I see a kitty cat walking around, I can more or less tell what's wrong with them just without laying a hand on them.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And then we go into the rest of our exam because some of these things, we want to look at progression.

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Dr. Karen Kline: We want to see if things are getting worse and better, you know, because sometimes some older kitties with underlying heart disease or kidney issues can even get little strokes in their brain just like we do.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So, you know, it depends on the history.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Did it come on quickly?

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Dr. Karen Kline: Is it getting worse?

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Dr. Karen Kline: Is it getting better?

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Dr. Karen Kline: You know, and to your point about seizures, not every kitty cat that has seizures is going to have something bad because we have a condition called epilepsy of unknown cause in kitties that they're almost like dogs just in that regard.

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Dr. Karen Kline: They have seizures, which are short circuits in the thinking portion of the brain, and they can be managed very, very easily.

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Rita Reimers: Wow, I did not know that either.

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Linda Hall: And that was a question I was going to ask you.

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Linda Hall: So, you know, money's tight.

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Linda Hall: I think my cat has a neurological disorder.

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Linda Hall: I shouldn't naturally assume that bringing my cat to a neurologic specialist means I'm going to have to pay for an MRI.

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Linda Hall: It's worth an investigation.

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Linda Hall: There might have been an easier route.

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Linda Hall: And you'll guide us.

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Rita Reimers: I truthfully don't spend a lot of money because my neurologist was like you.

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Rita Reimers: She could pretty much tell what was going on.

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Rita Reimers: And then she ran some blood work, I think, in other tests, but it wasn't thousands, thankfully.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah, and I think that's important these days because money's tight and why I always start and I talk with my owners about the basics.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So let's get some blood work to make sure there's not a systemic reason for what's going on.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And then we can talk about other things later.

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Dr. Karen Kline: It's that big exam and the expectations and what your goals are, because I see a lot of animals that have non-progressive disease, and we talk about options.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And a lot of times there's other systemic or metabolic things like heart disease and kidney disease that can cause secondary neurologic effects.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So we always want to start with the basics and then we move on from there.

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Dr. Karen Kline: I think that's really important.

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Linda Hall: That's awesome.

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Linda Hall: I know we're getting close to needing a break, but let me leave you with a-

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Linda Hall: So question.

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Linda Hall: So we had a client early on starting off and we always encourage, because we can't force them, but it's always, did you get a vet check?

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Linda Hall: So she'd been to her regular vet and had been cleared.

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Linda Hall: And this cat was very reactive to noise, which we often see, and we can often desensitize them.

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Linda Hall: Do that, work on that.

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Rita Reimers: This was extreme.

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Linda Hall: This was something we'd never seen before.

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Linda Hall: If this girl coughed, the cat attacked her.

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Linda Hall: If she accidentally dropped a fork.

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Linda Hall: She dropped a fork.

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Linda Hall: Can you imagine walking around in this nervous state of eggshells and, oh God, don't drop anything?

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Dr. Karen Kline: You'd have to wrap yourself in bubble wrap, so you'd just be like that bottom.

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Linda Hall: The cat had moments of being just lovely, and of course she was in love with this cat, but we had to, first time we ever had to say, this is above our pay grade, I'm sorry, you really need a neurologist.

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Linda Hall: And I don't know what happened from there, but is that something?

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Rita Reimers: I remember her going and it got better, but it's been years since we did it with her.

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Linda Hall: Yeah, I'd really like to know what happened.

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Linda Hall: So is that something that's fairly common and relatable to something?

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Linda Hall: What does that tell you?

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Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah, and there's a condition, and I don't want to get into the weeds here, auditory seizures, where seizures can come on just out of the blue in response to a noise.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So for example, if you open a bag of potato chips, or if you pop a bubble wrap or something like that.

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Dr. Karen Kline: That would be so cute.

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Dr. Karen Kline: That could potentially stimulate seizures.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And sometimes, especially in kitty cats, aggression can be associated with seizures.

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Rita Reimers: That was gonna be one of my questions about aggression.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Yep, because cat seizures are vastly different than dog seizures.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Cats will suddenly attack out of the blue, or their pupils will dilate, they'll vocalize, they'll run and try to jump up the side of a wall or something like that.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So much, much different.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And dealing with a seizureing kitty is a little bit more dangerous than even dealing with a cedering dog per se, because some of these kitties have claws and teeth and all that stuff.

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Dr. Karen Kline: So-

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Rita Reimers: Now you're more apt to get bit or scratched.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Yep, and answer to your question, there are medicines and so forth and other things to do that we could intervene with.

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Dr. Karen Kline: And again, sometimes we'll trial these guys on an anti-seizure medicine at first, before we launch into a lot of different diagnostics, just to see if we're on the right track.

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Linda Hall: That's amazing.

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Linda Hall: That never would have occurred to me in a million years.

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Rita Reimers: Me neither.

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Linda Hall: That it could have been a seizure, right?

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Linda Hall: I thought the cat was just scared to death of everything that moved.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah, and the other thing is, if the kitty is still alive now, chances are more likely that we didn't have anything noxious going on, because God forbid if he had a tumor, that wouldn't have ended so well.

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Rita Reimers: I think we can find her.

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Rita Reimers: I'm going to have to go see a neurologist.

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Linda Hall: Yeah, we're going to have to check up on her.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah, of course.

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Linda Hall: Yeah, it was a very frustrating feeling.

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Linda Hall: Like, I'm sorry.

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Linda Hall: There's nothing left to give you.

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Linda Hall: You've got to go see a neurologist.

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Dr. Karen Kline: Plus, it's scary.

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Linda Hall: Let's take a quick break.

00:14:42.816 --> 00:14:45.956
Rita Reimers: When we come back, I'll continue talking about this, because I have questions.

00:14:45.976 --> 00:14:46.996
Rita Reimers: We'll be right back.

00:14:49.456 --> 00:14:51.096
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00:15:39.936 --> 00:15:41.096
Announcer: Let's talk pests.

00:15:41.996 --> 00:15:42.996
Announcer: On Pet Life Radio.

00:15:44.336 --> 00:15:45.236
Announcer: Pet Life Radio.

00:15:56.178 --> 00:15:59.618
Rita Reimers: Welcome back to 19 Cats and Counting with Dr.

00:15:59.638 --> 00:16:02.958
Rita Reimers: Karen Kline, who is a feline neurologist.

00:16:02.978 --> 00:16:04.378
Rita Reimers: Oh, I think you do dogs too, right?

00:16:04.878 --> 00:16:07.458
Dr. Karen Kline: Sure do, and an occasional horse or cow.

00:16:07.698 --> 00:16:08.498
Rita Reimers: Oh, wow.

00:16:09.578 --> 00:16:13.558
Rita Reimers: Oh, we were talking about aggression and neurological issues.

00:16:13.878 --> 00:16:21.938
Rita Reimers: I wanted to ask, so many general practice veterinarians are quick to put cats who have aggression or anxiety on Prozac, right?

00:16:22.018 --> 00:16:24.178
Rita Reimers: Now, we don't not believe in medication.

00:16:24.198 --> 00:16:32.578
Rita Reimers: There's times when Prozac is warranted, and we often say if there's a neurological issue, maybe the Prozac, lifetime Prozac would be a valid option.

00:16:32.998 --> 00:16:39.438
Rita Reimers: If it's just behavioral, I think sometimes that gets in the way of diagnosing and fixing properly what's going on.

00:16:39.458 --> 00:16:49.058
Rita Reimers: But does it also mask the neurological issue that might be occurring that you're just gonna, given the cat Prozac and he's acting different, but maybe there was a reason for it.

00:16:49.258 --> 00:16:50.298
Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah, and I agree.

00:16:50.318 --> 00:17:01.618
Dr. Karen Kline: And that's where, you know, top of the line, we want to rule out anything else that could be affecting, you know, whether or not, and kitties and dogs for that matter, just like humans, if they're painful.

00:17:02.118 --> 00:17:06.038
Dr. Karen Kline: So remember that cats will have an abnormal gait.

00:17:06.058 --> 00:17:09.798
Dr. Karen Kline: Maybe they've got osteoarthritis or their muscles hurt.

00:17:10.218 --> 00:17:18.858
Dr. Karen Kline: And there are some situations in cats where we'll see inflammation of the muscle that can cause them to be really, really painful.

00:17:21.798 --> 00:17:43.038
Dr. Karen Kline: So I do agree that I hold off on using anything like fluoxetine or Prozac, unless I really have a good reason for that, because just like in people, sometimes that can mask the progression of the disease, or there may be some other confounding factor that could be more progressive.

00:17:43.098 --> 00:17:45.518
Dr. Karen Kline: So we want to keep it simple.

00:17:46.778 --> 00:18:02.358
Dr. Karen Kline: And there's other methods, feel-away and other things like that, especially when the cat comes to see me, because some cats just coming into a veterinary office, they get aggressive just because they're in a different place and smells are different.

00:18:02.358 --> 00:18:09.658
Dr. Karen Kline: So yeah, so I always take it in the context of what the history is and what's happening exactly.

00:18:09.978 --> 00:18:19.478
Rita Reimers: We like some holistic remedies or even gabapentin short-term, more than the long-term, because the thing too with Prozac, it takes so long to titrate up.

00:18:19.758 --> 00:18:22.758
Rita Reimers: By the time you see if it's going to make an effect, right?

00:18:23.638 --> 00:18:28.898
Rita Reimers: Oftentimes the person's given up and said, forget it, I'm just going to put this cat in the shelter.

00:18:29.338 --> 00:18:30.838
Dr. Karen Kline: Oh yeah, yeah.

00:18:30.958 --> 00:18:41.838
Linda Hall: One of the huge catalysts, if you'll excuse my pun, right now that we're seeing our feral cat, somebody's cat has lost their mind and is being aggressive and the doctor has given them fluoxetine Prozac.

00:18:42.478 --> 00:18:46.118
Linda Hall: And there's cats outside and we get rid of the cats, we get rid of the problems.

00:18:46.138 --> 00:18:50.138
Linda Hall: Now we got to titrate back off of this antidepressant, the cat wasn't depressed.

00:18:50.318 --> 00:18:51.858
Linda Hall: They were trying to protect their home.

00:18:52.498 --> 00:18:52.938
Dr. Karen Kline: Yes.

00:18:53.698 --> 00:18:54.978
Dr. Karen Kline: Displaced aggression.

00:18:54.998 --> 00:18:56.398
Dr. Karen Kline: That's huge.

00:18:57.538 --> 00:19:05.878
Dr. Karen Kline: You know, you have the screen and the kitty sees another kitty outside and all of a sudden they turn into some sort of monster when it's really not them.

00:19:05.898 --> 00:19:11.738
Dr. Karen Kline: It's just their reaction to think about a person, just reacting to someone lurking around the house.

00:19:14.478 --> 00:19:24.118
Linda Hall: I tell clients, okay, imagine you just heard on the radio that one of America's top 10 most wanted is escape from prison and was seen next door to your house.

00:19:24.498 --> 00:19:25.838
Linda Hall: How are you going to react?

00:19:26.238 --> 00:19:26.898
Dr. Karen Kline: Exactly.

00:19:27.018 --> 00:19:31.358
Linda Hall: Your partner walks in the room, you're in a cuff them one because you know, you're so on action.

00:19:31.818 --> 00:19:32.678
Dr. Karen Kline: Oh yeah.

00:19:32.698 --> 00:19:34.258
Linda Hall: That's how your cat is living.

00:19:35.738 --> 00:19:43.318
Dr. Karen Kline: And that's your brain's natural reaction to something scary is fight or flight, you know?

00:19:43.778 --> 00:19:46.258
Dr. Karen Kline: And I think cats are like that.

00:19:46.278 --> 00:19:50.758
Dr. Karen Kline: They'll be at stage one, and then all of a sudden they're at stage 10, you know?

00:19:50.758 --> 00:19:52.578
Dr. Karen Kline: So it's such a big deal.

00:19:52.598 --> 00:19:55.798
Rita Reimers: They may not even need to see the cat, just smelling them outside.

00:19:55.818 --> 00:19:56.258
Dr. Karen Kline: Smell it.

00:19:56.318 --> 00:19:57.358
Dr. Karen Kline: Yep, yep.

00:19:57.478 --> 00:19:59.638
Linda Hall: Been there, done that one.

00:19:59.798 --> 00:20:00.138
Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah.

00:20:00.478 --> 00:20:02.318
Rita Reimers: What other things should we be looking out for Dr.

00:20:02.498 --> 00:20:04.698
Rita Reimers: Karen as far as neurological issues with cats?

00:20:04.858 --> 00:20:25.158
Dr. Karen Kline: I would say, you know, certainly we look at behavior like you guys mentioned, but if we see circling or a head tilt, if the head is tilting like this, that probably could mean that we have an underlying problem with our ear, our inner ear, middle ear, what we call vestibular disease.

00:20:25.298 --> 00:20:35.078
Dr. Karen Kline: Our balance system is off, much like if we have an ear infection or we have vertigo, kitty cats will get vestibular problems.

00:20:35.098 --> 00:20:38.518
Dr. Karen Kline: So anything with that or circling or behavior changes.

00:20:38.518 --> 00:20:56.338
Dr. Karen Kline: So if your kitty is not as affectionate or is not as responsive, or if you rattle the snack container and your kitty doesn't come running, like most cats will do, that could potentially be an issue neurologically.

00:20:56.758 --> 00:21:04.098
Dr. Karen Kline: But again, some cats that are painful may act the same way, but it's the repetitive abnormal behaviors that we get worried about.

00:21:04.258 --> 00:21:04.818
Dr. Karen Kline: Exactly.

00:21:04.838 --> 00:21:08.098
Linda Hall: Especially when they aren't relieved by anything, and they-

00:21:08.098 --> 00:21:08.738
Dr. Karen Kline: Exactly.

00:21:09.098 --> 00:21:09.378
Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah.

00:21:09.598 --> 00:21:11.198
Rita Reimers: What about cats like Pepper, Linda?

00:21:11.218 --> 00:21:12.398
Rita Reimers: Do you want to talk about Pepper?

00:21:12.818 --> 00:21:14.258
Rita Reimers: I really think that cat had a neurologic-

00:21:14.278 --> 00:21:15.238
Linda Hall: Pepper, I do too.

00:21:15.518 --> 00:21:21.858
Linda Hall: Pepper was a client cat when Rita had a cat sitting business and I worked with her, and Pepper was a spicy girl.

00:21:22.398 --> 00:21:24.038
Linda Hall: She only liked her daddy.

00:21:24.298 --> 00:21:24.838
Dr. Karen Kline: Of course.

00:21:24.858 --> 00:21:27.298
Linda Hall: No one else, and I mean would attack.

00:21:27.438 --> 00:21:32.718
Linda Hall: We had one sitter that would take care of Pepper because she could see through to the wounded kitty that was-

00:21:33.038 --> 00:21:39.538
Linda Hall: but they literally left her room by the door so that she could reach around and scoot the cat back.

00:21:39.558 --> 00:21:45.538
Linda Hall: And she was very, very purposeful in her movements and what she did and how she did.

00:21:45.558 --> 00:21:49.018
Linda Hall: She had to lock herself in the bathroom when she was scooping the box because she'd get attacked.

00:21:49.338 --> 00:21:50.358
Linda Hall: Oh, jeez.

00:21:50.398 --> 00:21:52.718
Linda Hall: And I mean, for years, this has been going on.

00:21:52.958 --> 00:21:54.198
Linda Hall: And God bless this guy.

00:21:54.218 --> 00:21:56.398
Linda Hall: He's like totally giving up his love life.

00:21:56.478 --> 00:21:56.758
Rita Reimers: Yeah.

00:21:56.778 --> 00:21:58.798
Rita Reimers: He couldn't have a relationship.

00:21:58.798 --> 00:22:02.498
Linda Hall: He can't have anybody in the house sell and pepperfully eat their face.

00:22:03.218 --> 00:22:03.978
Linda Hall: Oh, jeez.

00:22:04.598 --> 00:22:05.378
Rita Reimers: Nothing helped.

00:22:05.718 --> 00:22:07.578
Rita Reimers: I really think that was a neurological issue.

00:22:07.878 --> 00:22:09.518
Dr. Karen Kline: Well, could have been.

00:22:09.538 --> 00:22:17.998
Dr. Karen Kline: And again, sometimes, like I mentioned, seizures, weird seizures, because cats don't sometimes have, you know, paddling is a function of seizures.

00:22:18.018 --> 00:22:22.578
Dr. Karen Kline: It can be more of a focal type of situation where they twitch a whisker or an ear.

00:22:22.958 --> 00:22:23.998
Dr. Karen Kline: And that's all they're doing.

00:22:24.018 --> 00:22:28.978
Dr. Karen Kline: And then post-seizure, they're kind of crazy and aggressive sometimes, too.

00:22:29.238 --> 00:22:30.818
Linda Hall: Cats do the post-dictal thing?

00:22:30.838 --> 00:22:33.138
Dr. Karen Kline: Yep, they can, they can.

00:22:33.158 --> 00:22:38.938
Dr. Karen Kline: And I tell people to be very, very careful because just like in dogs, they don't know what they're doing.

00:22:38.958 --> 00:22:43.058
Dr. Karen Kline: They may scratch, they may bite, especially with children in the house and everything.

00:22:43.078 --> 00:22:44.998
Dr. Karen Kline: It's a scary situation.

00:22:45.018 --> 00:22:58.178
Dr. Karen Kline: And sometimes cats will attack each other because, you know, the normal cat will see the poor seizureing cat as some sort of a barren creature and they'll start fighting.

00:22:58.238 --> 00:23:08.858
Dr. Karen Kline: So it is a very big deal to not intervene right after, but to keep them in a small enclosed area and not let them hurt themselves either, or anybody else.

00:23:08.878 --> 00:23:10.858
Rita Reimers: Linda's daughter has seizures, so she knows.

00:23:11.138 --> 00:23:12.898
Linda Hall: I've lived through post-dictal.

00:23:12.898 --> 00:23:14.338
Linda Hall: It's insane.

00:23:14.398 --> 00:23:16.998
Linda Hall: I mean insane, like I need to go see my mom.

00:23:18.478 --> 00:23:24.438
Linda Hall: I mean literally, we have been through some stuff, but fortunately, thank you, God, it's under control right now.

00:23:24.458 --> 00:23:29.458
Linda Hall: But there were some moments where I felt like I was battling somebody on baths.

00:23:31.298 --> 00:23:33.318
Rita Reimers: She's strong too.

00:23:33.338 --> 00:23:36.018
Rita Reimers: She's abnormally strong with her post-dictal.

00:23:36.038 --> 00:23:41.158
Linda Hall: Adrenaline, that whole like when moms lift cars off of their children and things, you know.

00:23:41.178 --> 00:23:43.198
Dr. Karen Kline: The superhuman effect.

00:23:45.318 --> 00:23:54.978
Rita Reimers: That happens to cats too, because we could get a lot of people that all of a sudden when cat attacks the other, seemingly for no reason, even though they may be siblings that got along for years.

00:23:55.318 --> 00:24:02.858
Rita Reimers: We usually attribute it to outside cats or some kind of anxiety going on, but could well be some type of seizure abnormality happening.

00:24:03.058 --> 00:24:03.518
Dr. Karen Kline: Oh yeah.

00:24:03.818 --> 00:24:08.738
Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah, and that's where we're looking at if they're abnormal in between the events or something like that.

00:24:08.758 --> 00:24:11.938
Dr. Karen Kline: And owners are the best judge of that because they live with them every day.

00:24:12.038 --> 00:24:23.838
Dr. Karen Kline: So it's just like, and that's where I start with the history because nine times out of 10, getting that history is gonna tell us a lot more about what choices we have for treatment.

00:24:24.798 --> 00:24:31.898
Linda Hall: So let's say my cat loses their mind, acts up, chomps on me out of nowhere, but then it doesn't happen again.

00:24:31.918 --> 00:24:33.218
Linda Hall: It's been a couple of months.

00:24:33.598 --> 00:24:35.358
Linda Hall: Could this be a neurological problem?

00:24:35.378 --> 00:24:38.438
Linda Hall: I mean, how far apart can seizures be spaced?

00:24:38.978 --> 00:24:40.978
Dr. Karen Kline: Oh gosh, that's a really good question.

00:24:41.158 --> 00:24:47.098
Dr. Karen Kline: Sometimes they can have multiple in a day, or sometimes we can have them once a month, once every three months.

00:24:47.458 --> 00:24:51.418
Dr. Karen Kline: I tell my clients it's very unpredictable, and that's the tough part.

00:24:51.438 --> 00:24:58.258
Dr. Karen Kline: But when we intervene sometimes with medications is when they are occurring on a daily basis.

00:24:58.658 --> 00:25:07.178
Dr. Karen Kline: I've had a couple of cats come into an exam room and they're actively seizureing and having like 65 focal seizures in five minutes.

00:25:07.818 --> 00:25:12.778
Dr. Karen Kline: And the reason owners bring their cats in is because they're behaving weirdly or badly.

00:25:12.798 --> 00:25:22.378
Dr. Karen Kline: And it's because they're persistently having seizures and you get them on a certain treatment regime if you've ruled out anything else systemically and they're back to normal.

00:25:22.678 --> 00:25:30.118
Dr. Karen Kline: So I think it's important again to use those powers of observation and really watch your patient.

00:25:30.138 --> 00:25:35.918
Dr. Karen Kline: That's what's so cool about neuro is you can tell a lot of times what's wrong with them, again, just by observation.

00:25:36.458 --> 00:25:40.118
Rita Reimers: And realize that there is treatment, that cats can recover.

00:25:40.198 --> 00:25:43.218
Rita Reimers: I was laughing at your cat because he was doing circles like that.

00:25:45.258 --> 00:25:46.918
Linda Hall: No, he's got something.

00:25:46.938 --> 00:25:54.758
Linda Hall: Rita's cat Simba is four years old and she's never, well, he can be a pain in the butt, but he's not had any crazy, crazy things.

00:25:55.058 --> 00:26:00.778
Linda Hall: Couple of months ago, out of nowhere, he bit her arm so bad, she still got scars.

00:26:01.098 --> 00:26:03.178
Linda Hall: Out of nowhere, and I mean, chomped.

00:26:03.358 --> 00:26:05.098
Linda Hall: Now he hasn't done it since.

00:26:05.618 --> 00:26:14.258
Linda Hall: Out of nowhere, we had just lost a cat, so we were trying to blame it on that, even though that didn't really feel, break your brain through.

00:26:14.538 --> 00:26:15.538
Rita Reimers: Maybe it was a seizure.

00:26:15.618 --> 00:26:17.678
Linda Hall: So that's why I asked.

00:26:17.698 --> 00:26:18.598
Linda Hall: It was about Simba.

00:26:18.618 --> 00:26:29.818
Linda Hall: I was thinking we should keep an eye on this because if it happens again, maybe these are spaced out seizures or maybe that one happened while she was in proximity, which is why she got bit and she's missing.

00:26:29.838 --> 00:26:34.858
Rita Reimers: He was sitting on my lap quietly, and all of a sudden, it stuck in.

00:26:34.878 --> 00:26:35.818
Rita Reimers: Are there markers?

00:26:35.838 --> 00:26:40.958
Rita Reimers: Like, can you tell that a cat has had a seizure in the past or is there no leftover evidence?

00:26:41.238 --> 00:26:42.598
Dr. Karen Kline: Unfortunately, not.

00:26:42.638 --> 00:26:43.558
Dr. Karen Kline: And that's the thing.

00:26:43.578 --> 00:26:48.978
Dr. Karen Kline: If only our patients could tell us exactly what was going on, but we just don't have that luxury.

00:26:50.138 --> 00:26:52.958
Dr. Karen Kline: But they can happen out of the blue, but I would monitor it.

00:26:52.978 --> 00:26:58.198
Dr. Karen Kline: It's possible it may never happen again, hopefully, but it does make you a little wary and scared.

00:26:58.218 --> 00:27:00.698
Rita Reimers: For about a week, whenever he'd come up to me, I'm like, I don't trust you.

00:27:02.858 --> 00:27:09.858
Linda Hall: Yes, and we're like, you know, when you've lived with him for four years and nothing like that's ever happened, it's like something's up.

00:27:09.898 --> 00:27:11.518
Rita Reimers: But he's very sweet normally.

00:27:11.738 --> 00:27:13.398
Linda Hall: Yes, he loves her.

00:27:13.418 --> 00:27:14.898
Rita Reimers: A little derpy, but he's sweet.

00:27:16.298 --> 00:27:16.958
Dr. Karen Kline: We all are.

00:27:16.978 --> 00:27:19.738
Linda Hall: A bit of a troublemaker, but yeah, we need to love.

00:27:21.278 --> 00:27:23.018
Linda Hall: We love them despite it, so.

00:27:23.218 --> 00:27:28.018
Rita Reimers: I know we're coming up to the end of our program, sadly, but we would love to have you come back.

00:27:28.038 --> 00:27:34.018
Rita Reimers: Or are there any last things that you would like our audience to know about neurological issues or things they should be aware of?

00:27:34.198 --> 00:27:47.058
Dr. Karen Kline: Yeah, and as I had mentioned before, I think sometimes little cats get the bed into the stick in terms of, especially if they're having seizures or whatnot, it doesn't necessarily mean that they have something bad.

00:27:47.238 --> 00:27:58.038
Dr. Karen Kline: So I think just getting to your veterinarian, if they recommend a specialist consultation, at least going in there with the mindset of, what are my goals?

00:27:58.058 --> 00:27:59.398
Dr. Karen Kline: What are my expectations?

00:27:59.698 --> 00:28:01.878
Dr. Karen Kline: Maybe it's not gonna be bad news at all.

00:28:02.218 --> 00:28:10.158
Dr. Karen Kline: So we just need to make sure that we all work together because at the end of the day, healthcare can be really expensive.

00:28:10.238 --> 00:28:21.978
Dr. Karen Kline: But first and foremost, if we need a specialist examination, they're gonna just guide you through the process and make sure you're comfortable and then be there to follow up with you as time goes on.

00:28:22.378 --> 00:28:22.978
Dr. Karen Kline: Absolutely.

00:28:25.038 --> 00:28:27.438
Rita Reimers: Thank you, thank you enough for being on our show.

00:28:27.458 --> 00:28:29.098
Dr. Karen Kline: You're very welcome.

00:28:29.118 --> 00:28:30.498
Dr. Karen Kline: It was great to have you guys.

00:28:30.658 --> 00:28:32.718
Rita Reimers: We have a lot of topics for you.

00:28:33.138 --> 00:28:35.298
Linda Hall: Yeah, we're gonna have you back.

00:28:35.478 --> 00:28:37.038
Linda Hall: We are not done with Dr.

00:28:37.058 --> 00:28:37.558
Linda Hall: Karen.

00:28:37.578 --> 00:28:39.078
Linda Hall: Good, good, good.

00:28:39.098 --> 00:28:40.298
Dr. Karen Kline: We'd love to come back.

00:28:40.578 --> 00:28:44.558
Rita Reimers: If you happen to be in the Charlotte area, anybody, oh yes, definitely.

00:28:44.678 --> 00:28:49.118
Rita Reimers: Anybody who's listening, if you're in the Charlotte area, Care Charlotte, there's a couple choices in Charlotte.

00:28:49.138 --> 00:28:51.458
Rita Reimers: Care Charlotte, they have the best staff.

00:28:51.858 --> 00:28:53.818
Rita Reimers: They won't charge you an arm and a leg.

00:28:54.078 --> 00:28:54.218
Rita Reimers: Dr.

00:28:54.238 --> 00:28:57.998
Rita Reimers: Favre is an amazing neurological specialist.

00:28:58.418 --> 00:29:01.098
Rita Reimers: So I would implore you, have your cats checked out.

00:29:01.298 --> 00:29:08.158
Rita Reimers: Linda, as always, thank you for being my ride or die, my BFF, my work wife, as her husband calls you.

00:29:08.158 --> 00:29:09.938
Linda Hall: Definitely, definitely.

00:29:10.838 --> 00:29:11.198
Rita Reimers: Dr.

00:29:11.218 --> 00:29:12.778
Rita Reimers: Karen, thank you so much for your time.

00:29:13.938 --> 00:29:14.478
Linda Hall: You're amazing.

00:29:14.498 --> 00:29:16.058
Dr. Karen Kline: Absolutely, absolutely.

00:29:16.418 --> 00:29:17.498
Dr. Karen Kline: Thanks for having me.

00:29:17.698 --> 00:29:18.958
Rita Reimers: Oh, it's our pleasure.

00:29:18.998 --> 00:29:20.118
Linda Hall: We can't thank you enough.

00:29:20.598 --> 00:29:26.798
Rita Reimers: Mark Winter, thank you so much for this space on Pet Life Radio and for your awesome editing, making us sound so good.

00:29:27.438 --> 00:29:30.978
Rita Reimers: Just remember everyone, every day is Caturday.

00:29:31.158 --> 00:29:32.238
Rita Reimers: We'll see you next time.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets every week on demand, only on petliferadio.com.