19 Cats And Counting

BIO:

Dr. Kelly Cairns graduated veterinary school from CSU in 2004, completed a small animal rotating internship at Cornell in 2005 and completed a small animal internal medicine residency at OSU in 2008, at which time she obtained Diplomate status. She enjoyed a rewarding clinical practice as an internist and medical director of a multi-specialty/ER hospital until joining Pathway Vet Alliance (now Thrive Pet Healthcare) in January of 2018. Dr. Cairns currently serves as Vice President of Medical Excellence and Education for over 400 hospitals in the Thrive Pet Healthcare family. She is also on the dvm360 editorial board and on the Chicago Veterinary Medical Association Board of Directors. She lectures nationally on profession-related wellness coaching topics as well as internal medicine.

Dr. Cairns provides coaching and resources to support the medical excellence, professional development and sustained happiness of veterinary healthcare team members. She is passionate about supporting the people in the veterinary profession on the front line who positively impact the lives of their patients and pet parents every day.
In her personal time Dr. Cairns is an avid runner and enjoys family life with her husband, two daughters, son, two cats and very sweet but poorly mannered lab mix.

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets.

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Linda Hall: Hello, my cat-loving friends.

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Linda Hall: You are a regular listener of our...

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Linda Hall: You already know Dr.

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Linda Hall: Kelly Cairns.

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Linda Hall: We adore her.

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Linda Hall: She is a veterinarian specializing in internal medicine.

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Linda Hall: She is the VP of Health and Education, I think I have this memorized, for over 400 Thrive Pet Care hospitals.

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Linda Hall: And she graciously donates time every month to come talk to us about our hot topics.

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Linda Hall: And right now, our hot topic is orphaned kittens.

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Linda Hall: We are in it.

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Linda Hall: So we selfishly asked her to broach that subject because I need her.

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Linda Hall: So we're going to break for a word from our meowsing sponsor.

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Linda Hall: And as soon as we get back, we're going to get into it.

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Linda Hall: Hey, it's Linda Hall from 19 Cats and Counting.

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Rita Reimers: And I'm Rita Reimers from 19 Cats and Counting.

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Rita Reimers: You know the expression that cats have nine lives?

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Rita Reimers: Well, what if you can give them one more?

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Rita Reimers: The Give Them 10 movement is on a mission to help give cats an extra life.

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Rita Reimers: How?

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Linda Hall: With spay and neuter.

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Linda Hall: Spaying or neutering your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life.

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Linda Hall: And it helps control the free roaming cat populations too.

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Linda Hall: You can learn more about the benefits of spay and neuter and meet Scooter, the neutered cat, at givethemten.org.

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Rita Reimers: That's givethemten.org.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets on petliferadio.com.

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Linda Hall: Welcome back to 19 Cats and Counting, I am your co-host, Linda Hall.

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Linda Hall: Here with the lady that started my love of kittens and turned me on, or cats, period, and turned me on to the mysteries of feline behavior, my BFF, my partner in crime, although we don't talk about the crimes, Rita Reimers.

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Rita Reimers: Don't tell anyone where they met, is there a very darn kitten?

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Linda Hall: It slipped out.

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Rita Reimers: I don't think I started your love of kittens, I think that was your daughter.

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Rita Reimers: I think I added to it.

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Linda Hall: But it was the understanding and the fact that they communicate, and I wasn't picking up on it, that made me like a kid who hadn't eaten and was hungry for food.

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Rita Reimers: Well, let's talk about why Dr.

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Rita Reimers: Kelly is here.

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Rita Reimers: Dr.

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Rita Reimers: Kelly is here because, ha ha, your turn, you've got orphan kittens.

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Rita Reimers: Yeah.

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Rita Reimers: I've been there a few times myself.

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Rita Reimers: Dr.

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Rita Reimers: Kelly is here to give us some expert information and advice about those teeny little babies.

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Rita Reimers: How old are your kittens, Linda?

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Linda Hall: We're guesstimating that two of them are five to six weeks and one of them is about four weeks.

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Linda Hall: That's my guess at the moment.

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Rita Reimers: Yeah.

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Rita Reimers: What do you think about that, Dr.

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Rita Reimers: Kelly?

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Rita Reimers: She has a handful, right?

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Congratulations.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's amazing.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And I'm only just slightly jealous.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: I think I need a half dozen of them myself right now.

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Rita Reimers: Yeah, they're so cute.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And it is a lot of work.

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Linda Hall: So this is my problem.

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Linda Hall: I have never adopted a cat that was too young to be weaned.

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Linda Hall: They have all been eight to 10 weeks.

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Linda Hall: And Rita and I had both actually sworn off kittens.

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Linda Hall: It's a lot, right?

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Linda Hall: Any kitten, even a 12-week-old.

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Rita Reimers: Yeah, I'm in my 60s.

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Rita Reimers: That's a lot of work for somebody in their 60s.

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Rita Reimers: 19 cats that are adults are hard enough.

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Linda Hall: And if the cat was to be 21, like my tiger just did that we lost in August, am I going to be able to handle this cat?

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Linda Hall: So, but we had an emergency situation, so we did it.

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Linda Hall: And it has been an eye-opener.

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Linda Hall: I thought kittens were kittens, kittens are not kittens.

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Linda Hall: Under eight to 10 weeks, this is a whole nother ball game and we need your help.

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Linda Hall: So to start with, this is not something that you should do unless a kitten is orphaned, right?

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: That is correct.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: We never want to separate a kitten or kittens from their mother.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And if you do happen to find a kitten or kittens and they're with their mother, it's probably best to have them check by a veterinarian and then make plans accordingly.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Likewise, if you do find a basket of kittens, I have inherited some family members this way, where they actually came to a clinic just outside the front door and there was a basket of kittens that then became my family members, you're still going to want to, as soon as you can, have those kittens checked by a veterinarian to make sure that it looks like everything is healthy with them and they don't need any medical care.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: We want to keep the kittens with mom as long as possible though.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: There's a lot of development, there's a lot of bonding, there's a lot of proper immune function development that comes from that.

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Rita Reimers: Unfortunately, this mom was, this kittens were orphaned, their mom was hit by a car.

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Rita Reimers: At least the first, the mom was the first, we don't know about this.

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Linda Hall: Yeah, that's all confusing story we won't get into, but yeah, so, and I initially heard about one and I brought one home and then I heard there's another and I brought two home and that ended up three, but I realized I wasn't using my behaviorist brain when I adopted one kitten because who's going to teach them to socialize when they've been taken away from their house.

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Rita Reimers: That was your husband that said, why didn't you get two?

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Rita Reimers: They do better in pairs.

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Rita Reimers: We're like, boy, you've been hanging around us too long.

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Linda Hall: The former, I don't like cats man.

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Linda Hall: Yeah, but you know, they are, especially the two older ones, they are just going at it all over the place.

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Linda Hall: The youngest one I've noticed is not as playful to that and really wants to be in my shirt or behind my hair.

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Linda Hall: Like he still wants to be snuggled up against mama and it, and he searches for teats on my face.

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Linda Hall: And I realize it makes me feel badly that he needs this.

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Linda Hall: And it was taken.

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Rita Reimers: Daddy's missing his mom.

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Rita Reimers: Yeah.

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Linda Hall: They're a lot of fun though.

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Linda Hall: So first shot back, we feed my cats about three times a day.

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Linda Hall: It's not working with the kittens.

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Linda Hall: They woke me up in the middle of the night, trying to nurse on my head and crying and making a whole lot of noise.

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Linda Hall: So how often should kittens under that age at least eat?

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: All right.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So let's unpack what's a kitten.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So for me, a kitten is a cat that is under a year of age.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And then I loosely subdivide that into about six months to a year, which is like a mature kitten, and under six months, which is a younger kitten.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: The kitten that most of us, the kittens, that most of us think about when we think about kittens or the images of kittens on the internet or in kitten calendars.

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Rita Reimers: Which you just happened to have.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Here we go.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: For those of you watching the podcast, here's my kitten calendar.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So the images of kittens that we are familiar with are likely to be kittens that are eight weeks of age or eight to 12 weeks of age.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: That's when they're delightfully tiny, but basically behave like very animated versions of the cats we know and love.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So when we talk about taking care of a neonate or a newborn or a tiny kitten, for me, that's a kitten under eight weeks of age.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Okay.

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Rita Reimers: That's what you've got.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So that's what you got.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So what happens though between birth and age and eight weeks of age, a lot of stuff happens week over week.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So what we do for a one to two week old kitten is different than what we do for a two to four week old kitten.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So in general, first of all, you're a hero for stepping in to care for these kittens.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: It is just like having a newborn human child.

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Linda Hall: I'm told Rita that I'm having flashbacks, Dr.

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Linda Hall: Talley.

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Linda Hall: I'm 57.

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Linda Hall: I'll be 58 in March.

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Rita Reimers: But you have triplets.

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Rita Reimers: Gee, you have triplets.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So how often you'd ask, do they need to be fed?

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And we could talk about then what they need to be fed.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: A newborn kitten up until about two weeks of age is still, when they're very tiny, their eyes aren't even open for the first few days.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: In that first two weeks of life, and again, you're partnering with your veterinarian here, you're making sure they don't need medical care, the feeding is generally every two to three hours, even during the night.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Just like a human newborn.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Okay, they need round the clock feeding.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: When they get to be about two to four weeks of age, we're moving to about every four to six hours.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: The kittens still have very small stomachs during this age of development, and so frequent feedings are still really important.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: When we hit four to six weeks of age, this is where we are probably feeding about four times a day, or every six hours.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And that's when we're starting to change up what we're feeding them.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So I've answered how frequent.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And now let's talk about what they can get.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: How does that sound?

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Linda Hall: Yes, please.

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Linda Hall: Yes, please.

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Linda Hall: Yes, please.

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Linda Hall: Because there is, you know, the options.

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Linda Hall: There is kitten milk replacement, which I definitely did because I know they should still be getting mama's milk.

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Linda Hall: But then there's bottle, not bottle.

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Linda Hall: They have done fine with drinking it out of a saucer.

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Linda Hall: So I got out of the bottle thing.

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Linda Hall: And there's kitten wet food, which I'm doing.

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Linda Hall: But then there's also kitten dry food.

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Linda Hall: So it's a big like what, when, where.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: All right.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So we're going to start with liquid.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And then eventually we're going to move to a gruel or a paste or puree.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And then when they get old enough, you make the decision about whether or not you're introducing dry.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So harder.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: It is really critical that a kitten gets a kitten milk replacement formula that is designed specifically for kittens.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Now the great news is that all of our amazing pet food and pet supply companies out there or stores out there, there are very great, awesome products that will say that it meets the requirements for a newborn kitten.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So that's what you're looking for over the counter.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: You don't usually need a prescription.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So we're using a kitten milk replacement formula designed specifically for kittens.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's critical that kittens do not get other alternatives, not human infant formula, not cow's milk.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Those do not provide the proper nutrition.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And not only can that cause digestive upset, it can cause some serious medical conditions in a kitten this small.

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Rita Reimers: Okay.

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Rita Reimers: So we got that.

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Rita Reimers: We're just using that.

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Linda Hall: Quick question.

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Linda Hall: So like I bought KMR, I bought kitten milk replacement.

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Linda Hall: But then I picked up, I don't even remember how now, these packets of dried goat's milk that has probiotic that says it's good for all ages.

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Linda Hall: So I kind of mixed that in with some of the wet food, but I don't know.

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Linda Hall: And then it's like, wait, am I causing digestion problems?

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Well, I can't comment on that specific product because I don't know which one that is.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: The question is, so you know you're feeding a nutritionally complete formula with that KMR.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: The question is, is what's in the additional supplement going to upset the apple cart or being neutral or potentially beneficial?

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So for that particular product, you might just want to chat with your vet and have them look at specifically what is in there.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: We do know that there's different bacterial strains that are better for certain species over other species.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So we talk about probiotics.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: That basically means bacteria and yeast that are beneficial.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Humans have different species than dogs do than cats do, which is why we do have products out there that are designed, you'll see, for dogs, probiotics for dogs.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So you might just want to have your vet check on that product.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Now, if we're feeding a formula that's designed for kittens and we know we're doing it when they're really itty-bitty every two to three hours, the question is, well, how do I get this into them?

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So much like a human infant, they're not just gonna pick up a cup and drink it down, or they're not gonna lap something up in a bowl.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So you will be feeding them out of a tiny little, and you can buy these over the counter as well, bottle that is designed to feed small animals with a nipple.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Okay?

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And you could take that nipple, and if you need to make it a little larger so that it's easier for the flow to come out, you can take and use a clean needle or sterilize something to then go ahead and make that needle, the hole in the nipple a little bigger.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Now, sometimes, because you do need to suck with those bottles and nipples, even if again, one of my little life hacks for feeding kittens is you can make the size of the...

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: I've actually taken in the past clean, Xterra, you want everything clean, wash it, scissors, and literally nicked the tip of that because I have had many tiny little newborn kittens where the size of that pinprick hole was too small for them.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: If they don't have a robust suck reflex, they don't have the muscles developed to be able to get enough liquid out of that nipple.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Interesting.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Make little incremental increases in sizes so that you're not also drowning them in their throat.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: Sometimes you could also pivot to an actual syringe without a needle, but a little tiny, say three or six milliliter syringe, which you may be able to get over the counter or obtain from your veterinarian.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: In my experience, the reason why folks will move to a syringe is because they need a different hole, a bigger hole, which the syringe has.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: And also when you're syringing, you are able to use push the plunger to give them the amount that they need that corresponds to the rate that they're swallowing.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So you can help them get it in.

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Dr. Kelly Cairns: So the syringe is often a workaround for a kitten that doesn't have a strong suck reflex.

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Linda Hall: I'm feeling very, I don't know what my word is here.

00:14:06.599 --> 00:14:13.779
Linda Hall: I'm feeling very like I just got a pat on the back because I just had a friend reach out to me and say, stop it, I've had a litter of kittens.

00:14:13.779 --> 00:14:15.339
Linda Hall: She had eight babies.

00:14:15.339 --> 00:14:20.659
Linda Hall: One of them was not getting time at the tee and was becoming lethargic and I was getting very scared.

00:14:20.659 --> 00:14:24.859
Linda Hall: So I sent her over some KMR and I told her, you know, try the bottle.

00:14:24.859 --> 00:14:28.239
Linda Hall: And then I got a message saying, he's not taking the bottle.

00:14:28.239 --> 00:14:29.759
Linda Hall: So I said, try a syringe.

00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:31.799
Linda Hall: And I'm like, I am not an expert at this.

00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:35.359
Linda Hall: I'm as far in the deep end as you are girlfriend, but I'm going to pull this out.

00:14:35.459 --> 00:14:40.199
Linda Hall: So I'm feeling really good that I said the right thing, thank you.

00:14:40.199 --> 00:14:47.359
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And again, you know, my disclaimer is always going to be, when in doubt, take the kitten to the vet, have a conversation with the vet.

00:14:47.359 --> 00:15:00.459
Dr. Kelly Cairns: The syringe can be a good technique to again, control in a metered fashion, the amount of liquid you're putting into their little mouths, so that they can, you can coordinate it with their swallow.

00:15:00.459 --> 00:15:10.179
Dr. Kelly Cairns: You just need to be very attentive to that because a little tiny bit of formula can be a lot in their mouths, and you wouldn't want to inadvertently risk them aspirating or choking on that liquid.

00:15:10.179 --> 00:15:15.179
Rita Reimers: Yeah, I've read that you can accidentally drown a kitten if you don't know exactly how to bottle feed.

00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:16.939
Rita Reimers: That's true then, isn't it?

00:15:16.959 --> 00:15:18.239
Linda Hall: Definitely.

00:15:18.239 --> 00:15:18.799
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's true.

00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:20.319
Rita Reimers: Look at the baby, right eye view.

00:15:20.319 --> 00:15:22.039
Linda Hall: I know, you can see the video.

00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:26.759
Linda Hall: That would be number one, the little black ears are poking out of that cat bed.

00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:28.659
Linda Hall: Number two is on the edge of the bed.

00:15:29.139 --> 00:15:32.859
Linda Hall: And number three is on me, so.

00:15:34.459 --> 00:15:36.819
Rita Reimers: Look at the size difference between those two and that one.

00:15:36.819 --> 00:15:40.059
Rita Reimers: You can see there's a big size difference.

00:15:40.059 --> 00:15:51.299
Linda Hall: And I have noticed, like, you know, the older ones, the bigger ones, they are able to chew something that's crunchy, if it's small and baby meant for kitten.

00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:53.039
Linda Hall: The little one cannot.

00:15:53.339 --> 00:15:53.719
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Yeah.

00:15:53.719 --> 00:15:55.299
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Well, that's a great point.

00:15:55.299 --> 00:16:10.939
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So it's a great transition to, if we're doing this kitten formula, and we know we're going to be doing it every two to three hours until they're about two weeks of age, and then two to four weeks, it's every four to six hours, when can we or should we be doing something in addition?

00:16:10.939 --> 00:16:22.519
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And so about four weeks of age, four to six weeks of age, you can start introducing, in most instances, a soft food or gruel alongside your formula.

00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:41.559
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And so most typically, what we will recommend is that it is a kitten wet food, not a cat wet food, that is mixed maybe in a blender 50-50 with the kitten formula, so it forms a gruel or a slightly thickened paste that you are often still bottle feeding.

00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:46.799
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Or if they're ready, you can put a little bit of that on a plate and see if they will lap it up.

00:16:46.799 --> 00:17:03.899
Dr. Kelly Cairns: But what I've done in the beginning of that four to six week period is that's where I then used my bottle, where I've taken, and I've actually taken a specific cap and a nipple and I've literally cut it for a very big hole, so that the gruel just flows out of it.

00:17:03.899 --> 00:17:12.759
Dr. Kelly Cairns: But it eventually in this four to six week period, they will start to lap up that gruel from a plate.

00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:14.139
Rita Reimers: Is that where you are right now?

00:17:14.139 --> 00:17:14.999
Linda Hall: That is where I am.

00:17:14.999 --> 00:17:16.959
Rita Reimers: With one in a queue, what about number three?

00:17:16.959 --> 00:17:25.039
Linda Hall: Yeah, so number three, yeah, number three even from the beginning, but I think it's because his only choice at the farm was adult kibble that was watered down.

00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:29.799
Linda Hall: I think he figured it out for himself or starved, but he's been able to eat kitten wet food.

00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.899
Linda Hall: But again, it is very diluted.

00:17:32.899 --> 00:17:37.859
Linda Hall: So, and you know, things like, you know, they make those squeeze up treats for cat.

00:17:37.859 --> 00:17:44.019
Linda Hall: So Rita sent me some little squeezed up for that are made for kittens that are made for baby thrive.

00:17:44.019 --> 00:17:47.199
Linda Hall: So yeah, and so do that kind of as a treat.

00:17:47.199 --> 00:17:49.059
Linda Hall: And yeah, he's all over that.

00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:57.399
Rita Reimers: Well, let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsor, and then we'll get on to the next topic in our discussion about how to take care of orphaned kittens.

00:17:57.399 --> 00:17:58.899
Rita Reimers: We'll be right back.

00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:05.999
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00:19:16.979 --> 00:19:18.099
Announcer: Let's Talk Pets.

00:19:18.099 --> 00:19:20.059
Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on Pet Life Radio.

00:19:20.059 --> 00:19:21.359
Linda Hall: Pet Life Radio.

00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:23.519
Announcer: petliferadio.com.

00:19:32.878 --> 00:19:39.878
Rita Reimers: And we're back with 19 Cats and Counting, Linda, his new mom, to some neo-name kittens, and Dr.

00:19:39.878 --> 00:19:49.138
Rita Reimers: Kelly's giving us some great guidance, because we get a lot of people booking behavior sessions that have kittens that are, we've had some five exceptional kittens.

00:19:49.138 --> 00:19:53.938
Linda Hall: I am very grateful, this is not an experience I chose to sign up for, I guess.

00:19:53.938 --> 00:19:59.958
Linda Hall: It's not an experience I wanted, and I really don't think I'm going to do this again, at least not on purpose.

00:19:59.958 --> 00:20:04.038
Linda Hall: I am having the time of my life, and I adore them, and I am head over heels in love with them.

00:20:04.038 --> 00:20:08.218
Linda Hall: But again, it's like having a baby at 57, and I'm not up for that.

00:20:08.478 --> 00:20:11.698
Rita Reimers: Linda says it's the greatest experience she never wanted.

00:20:11.698 --> 00:20:13.798
Linda Hall: I never wanted, it's the greatest gift I didn't want.

00:20:13.798 --> 00:20:20.738
Linda Hall: Yes, but I'm glad I had the experience because, yeah, I can't preach what I haven't practiced about.

00:20:20.738 --> 00:20:26.438
Linda Hall: Let's talk about the other end, because what comes in must go out.

00:20:26.438 --> 00:20:29.878
Linda Hall: The two older ones, I showed them the litter box, they did great.

00:20:29.878 --> 00:20:32.398
Linda Hall: Couple of times, somebody didn't get all the way in there.

00:20:32.398 --> 00:20:34.458
Linda Hall: But it was a struggle.

00:20:34.458 --> 00:20:37.598
Linda Hall: I had to find the lowest side of litter pan I had.

00:20:37.598 --> 00:20:41.218
Linda Hall: The tiny one peed and pooped on her bed.

00:20:41.218 --> 00:20:43.698
Rita Reimers: Yeah, I had to teach a couple of cats to use the litter.

00:20:43.698 --> 00:20:46.178
Rita Reimers: So welcome to my world, Linda.

00:20:46.178 --> 00:20:49.178
Linda Hall: Yeah, he's got it now and he can even get into it.

00:20:49.178 --> 00:20:51.498
Linda Hall: But is this a normal thing?

00:20:51.498 --> 00:20:58.638
Linda Hall: And I understand that at one age, which fortunately that was not my issue, you have to stimulate their anus to get things moving.

00:20:58.738 --> 00:21:02.038
Linda Hall: And so fill us in on the poop and pee end.

00:21:02.038 --> 00:21:04.598
Rita Reimers: Yeah, because mom takes care of all that, right?

00:21:04.598 --> 00:21:06.798
Rita Reimers: I mean, they don't even have to go to the bathroom.

00:21:06.798 --> 00:21:08.158
Rita Reimers: Mom takes care of it.

00:21:08.158 --> 00:21:09.838
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Mom does that naturally.

00:21:09.838 --> 00:21:13.758
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So and it does seem a little odd, like why need to help them to pee and poop?

00:21:13.758 --> 00:21:16.318
Dr. Kelly Cairns: But it's completely natural.

00:21:16.318 --> 00:21:20.398
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Their mother is doing that in normal course of nature.

00:21:20.398 --> 00:21:22.598
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And in no time, they're going to be able to handle it on their own.

00:21:22.598 --> 00:21:26.298
Dr. Kelly Cairns: We're not doing stimulating them at the age of four weeks.

00:21:26.298 --> 00:21:33.898
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So and again, any questions about if they're peeing or pooping talk to your veterinarian, because there are some congenital developmental abnormalities.

00:21:33.898 --> 00:21:40.098
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And so we want to get on top of that really quickly if a kitten kind of comes out with wrong anatomy.

00:21:40.098 --> 00:21:46.878
Dr. Kelly Cairns: But if a kitten is under about three weeks of age, you need to help them and stimulate them to pee and poop.

00:21:46.878 --> 00:22:04.478
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And so what we do basically is we say after each feeding, you take just one minute to help stimulate both the urinary behavior and the bowel movement using a soft damp cloth or a cotton ball even that's just dampened with warm water, not really hot, not cold.

00:22:04.478 --> 00:22:10.838
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And you will gently rub the kitten's urogenital anal area in a circular motion.

00:22:10.838 --> 00:22:15.618
Dr. Kelly Cairns: That's going to mimic the mom's tongue and encourage them to urinate and defecate.

00:22:15.618 --> 00:22:22.458
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And when they're this small, what comes out is not a giant volume or very overwhelming.

00:22:22.838 --> 00:22:30.578
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Having said that, you want to make sure that you are in an environment and in an area that's comfortable for you and your home.

00:22:30.578 --> 00:22:36.678
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Usually, they will simply do it on the cloth or on the cotton ball.

00:22:36.678 --> 00:22:49.478
Dr. Kelly Cairns: What I like to do as early as possible in their life, so once their eyes are open and they're teetering around and they're a couple weeks of age, is after I stimulate them, put them in the litter box.

00:22:50.278 --> 00:23:09.338
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And as they get to be a little older or three weeks of age, even putting them in many times a day, and just even sometimes taking their paws and holding their paws and gently using your hand to hold their paw and make them with their paw scratch the litter box.

00:23:09.338 --> 00:23:14.778
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And they're such smart, let's face it, we all know that they're superior in every way.

00:23:14.958 --> 00:23:15.718
Linda Hall: And cats are the best.

00:23:15.718 --> 00:23:16.618
Linda Hall: They are smart.

00:23:16.618 --> 00:23:17.618
Rita Reimers: They're so smart.

00:23:17.618 --> 00:23:20.878
Dr. Kelly Cairns: They will pick this up very, very quickly.

00:23:20.878 --> 00:23:23.578
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's a natural instinct for them.

00:23:23.578 --> 00:23:29.258
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And they will soon as sure as shooting, be using that litter box on their own in no time.

00:23:29.258 --> 00:23:34.078
Rita Reimers: Do you know as little as they are, they're getting themselves into the Casa Leo all by themselves?

00:23:34.078 --> 00:23:36.178
Linda Hall: Yeah, I didn't think they were using the automatic litter box.

00:23:36.178 --> 00:23:37.478
Linda Hall: I don't even know how they're climbing in there.

00:23:37.478 --> 00:23:39.698
Linda Hall: And I got a regular one right next to it.

00:23:39.698 --> 00:23:43.818
Linda Hall: And then I checked the app and it's like, Kitty just used the loo weighing 2.2 pounds.

00:23:43.818 --> 00:23:44.938
Linda Hall: I'm like, what?

00:23:44.938 --> 00:23:46.518
Rita Reimers: They're so smart.

00:23:46.518 --> 00:23:51.098
Linda Hall: These three were fortunately past the point that I didn't have to stimulate anything.

00:23:51.118 --> 00:23:53.618
Linda Hall: One and two had, of course, never used a litter box.

00:23:53.618 --> 00:23:54.918
Linda Hall: They'd only been outside.

00:23:54.918 --> 00:23:56.098
Linda Hall: I put them in it once.

00:23:56.098 --> 00:23:57.478
Linda Hall: It was a done deal.

00:23:57.478 --> 00:23:59.118
Linda Hall: Glory hallelujah.

00:23:59.118 --> 00:24:00.858
Linda Hall: Number three wasn't really getting it.

00:24:00.858 --> 00:24:05.378
Linda Hall: So we employed my human mom brain and we would feed them.

00:24:05.378 --> 00:24:10.998
Linda Hall: And like 15 minutes later, it'd be like, honey, we had to put them in the litter box and we just set them in the box.

00:24:11.358 --> 00:24:23.558
Linda Hall: And so finally, we have gone from having the quilt that Aunt Peggy hand made for us being pooped and beat on to, oh, my husband was not good with that, shoot them using the box, even the tiny one.

00:24:23.558 --> 00:24:34.958
Linda Hall: But I have noticed and I don't know if this is an age thing, little bit as I call a tiny one does not cover his poo, but his brothers will go behind him and cover it for him.

00:24:34.958 --> 00:24:36.298
Linda Hall: Are they teaching him?

00:24:36.298 --> 00:24:38.018
Linda Hall: Are they just cleaning up after him?

00:24:38.018 --> 00:24:39.758
Linda Hall: Should I be teaching him?

00:24:39.758 --> 00:24:40.338
Rita Reimers: Good question.

00:24:40.678 --> 00:24:49.838
Dr. Kelly Cairns: I think on that one, it might be reasonable to employ a little bit of a watch and wait, you know, I might put that right now into the personality bucket.

00:24:49.838 --> 00:24:58.338
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And especially if the litter mates are kind of assisting, I've had some cats like that where they never cover their own and somebody else sweeps in and does it for them.

00:24:58.338 --> 00:25:02.518
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And my experience is as they age, they tend to do that a little bit more.

00:25:02.518 --> 00:25:12.458
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So as long as it's normal poop, it's in the box, you know, I think you can watch and wait for a few weeks and maybe they'll take the lead from the good behaving siblings.

00:25:12.458 --> 00:25:14.018
Rita Reimers: That's a good point, normal poop.

00:25:14.018 --> 00:25:16.858
Rita Reimers: These kittens had coccidia when they first came to Linda.

00:25:16.858 --> 00:25:20.038
Rita Reimers: I'm very experienced with coccidia, unfortunately.

00:25:20.038 --> 00:25:21.638
Rita Reimers: Do you want to talk a little bit about what that is?

00:25:21.638 --> 00:25:27.358
Linda Hall: Rita, their poop is kind of yellow and runny and it has quite a smell and she said, coccidia.

00:25:27.358 --> 00:25:30.578
Linda Hall: Not a vet, but I'm guaranteeing you this is coccidia.

00:25:30.578 --> 00:25:33.718
Linda Hall: So I had some natural holistic stuff that's supposed to help with that.

00:25:33.718 --> 00:25:35.558
Linda Hall: I put it in their food and it solved the issue.

00:25:35.558 --> 00:25:40.258
Linda Hall: Otherwise, I would have had to have gone, you know, we have the benefit of having people like you, God bless you, Dr.

00:25:40.258 --> 00:25:45.038
Linda Hall: Kelly, that are in our pocket and in our corner that we can reach out to.

00:25:45.038 --> 00:25:48.978
Rita Reimers: And people like me who've had multiple cats since 2002.

00:25:48.978 --> 00:26:04.878
Linda Hall: And relying on Rita, who has done this thing, but the other thing I've really been looking at, and this is again a behaviorist point of view, is that we often get clients that have bottle fed a baby and this kitten does not, what we call, does not speak cat because he did not get that time.

00:26:04.978 --> 00:26:08.598
Linda Hall: So I think that they're all benefiting from being with each other.

00:26:08.598 --> 00:26:16.438
Linda Hall: But I have also taken to when they do something, moving them and hissing at them and kind of acting like their mother.

00:26:16.438 --> 00:26:17.738
Linda Hall: They look ridiculous.

00:26:17.738 --> 00:26:18.798
Rita Reimers: That helps.

00:26:18.798 --> 00:26:21.458
Linda Hall: But is that like, am I on the right track?

00:26:21.458 --> 00:26:31.078
Linda Hall: Like it is now my job to help fill in for mom in every aspect, not just nutrition and poo and pee, but in socialization and behavior.

00:26:31.078 --> 00:26:32.998
Dr. Kelly Cairns: You know, maybe, maybe a little bit.

00:26:32.998 --> 00:26:34.058
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Maybe a little bit.

00:26:34.058 --> 00:26:34.638
Linda Hall: Okay.

00:26:34.638 --> 00:26:35.518
Linda Hall: Okay.

00:26:35.518 --> 00:26:36.878
Linda Hall: Well, I'll keep hissing.

00:26:36.878 --> 00:26:39.958
Linda Hall: Don't keep making fun of me, but I'll keep hissing.

00:26:39.958 --> 00:26:50.218
Linda Hall: So next would be, I know that they have to get, is it called combo tested, before they can get neutered, which they will be getting neutered.

00:26:50.218 --> 00:26:52.118
Rita Reimers: Well, before they don't get their first shot.

00:26:52.118 --> 00:26:56.398
Linda Hall: So my next question is, when do we go to get that combo test?

00:26:56.398 --> 00:27:00.278
Linda Hall: Because I don't want to bring anybody before it's time, money's the thing, right?

00:27:00.278 --> 00:27:01.538
Linda Hall: I'm gonna be taking three of them.

00:27:01.538 --> 00:27:03.978
Linda Hall: So I want to take it when all three are ready.

00:27:03.978 --> 00:27:09.298
Linda Hall: And then, you know, what vaccinations, when, what is the best age to neuter?

00:27:09.298 --> 00:27:13.358
Linda Hall: Because I don't want to do it too soon, but I also know problems can come from doing it too late.

00:27:13.358 --> 00:27:14.058
Linda Hall: Yeah, okay.

00:27:14.058 --> 00:27:16.278
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So lots of great stuff to talk about there.

00:27:16.278 --> 00:27:24.658
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So in general, the first appointment to your vet should probably be around six weeks of age, definitely between six and eight weeks of age.

00:27:24.658 --> 00:27:33.978
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And what's gonna happen there is gonna have some things that your vet recommends that are pretty uniform based upon American Association of Feline Practitioners Recommendations.

00:27:33.978 --> 00:27:43.958
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And then there's gonna be things that are customized for your specific kitten relative to that kitten, you, your household, the other animals and the environment.

00:27:43.958 --> 00:27:56.678
Dr. Kelly Cairns: In general, we are going, when you talk about combo testing, your vet's gonna do a quick little blood test that is gonna make sure that your kitty does not have a feline leukemia virus or feline immunodeficiency virus.

00:27:56.678 --> 00:28:05.038
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Having those viruses does not inherently mean that your cat is doomsday, but they are viruses that we need to know about.

00:28:05.038 --> 00:28:24.938
Dr. Kelly Cairns: There are some health risks with this and those viruses, although many cats can live a great life for a very long time, we take different proactive measures when a kitty has either of those, but because those are very infectious to other cats, it will then impact recommendations about exposing your positive cat to negative cats.

00:28:24.938 --> 00:28:26.918
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So that's the combo test.

00:28:26.918 --> 00:28:30.578
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Another thing your vet's going to talk to you about is the vaccination schedule.

00:28:30.578 --> 00:28:39.338
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So there's a critical window of time when your veterinarian wants to start those vaccinations to protect against the most common things we vaccinate cats for.

00:28:39.338 --> 00:28:55.738
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So feline distemper, which is also called panleukopenia, it's a potentially fatal virus, feline calicivirus, which can cause upper respiratory tract symptoms, and feline rhinotrichitis, which is a feline herpesvirus, different than human herpesvirus.

00:28:55.738 --> 00:28:58.318
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's another respiratory tract virus.

00:28:59.298 --> 00:29:00.678
Dr. Kelly Cairns: That's a core vaccine.

00:29:00.678 --> 00:29:02.058
Dr. Kelly Cairns: We call it FVRCP.

00:29:02.058 --> 00:29:03.378
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's a single vaccine.

00:29:03.378 --> 00:29:09.438
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's critical from keeping your cat safe against common and dangerous diseases.

00:29:09.438 --> 00:29:11.958
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And you need more than one vaccine.

00:29:11.958 --> 00:29:18.378
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And typically we booster every approximately three weeks until the kitty's about 16 to 20 weeks of age.

00:29:18.778 --> 00:29:20.478
Rita Reimers: It's a set of three, right?

00:29:20.478 --> 00:29:21.298
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It could be three.

00:29:21.298 --> 00:29:22.558
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It could be more than three.

00:29:22.558 --> 00:29:30.818
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It depends a little bit on or less than three, depending upon when your veterinarian sees that cat and how old it is and what's going on.

00:29:30.818 --> 00:29:35.358
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And so there's very specific AAFP guidelines that your veterinarian will follow.

00:29:35.358 --> 00:29:37.998
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Yes, but we can napkin math and say three.

00:29:37.998 --> 00:29:46.238
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And then of course, the rabies vaccine, which is not given this young, it's given when they're a little bit older at the end of the series of the others.

00:29:46.918 --> 00:30:06.058
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Your vet is also going to talk to you about other vaccines that may not be what we call core vaccines that every kitty is recommended to get, but are considered optional and potentially optional, meaning your vet may say this is a critical vaccine for your cat based upon environment and potential risk factors.

00:30:06.058 --> 00:30:07.238
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Okay.

00:30:07.238 --> 00:30:09.158
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So that's vaccines.

00:30:09.158 --> 00:30:19.078
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Of course, your veterinarian is going to be doing a great physical examination and talking to you about everything going on at home to make sure that we think everything is on track.

00:30:19.078 --> 00:30:21.278
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And that physical examination is key.

00:30:21.278 --> 00:30:26.678
Dr. Kelly Cairns: There's so many things your vet can pick up that even an experienced layperson may not notice.

00:30:26.678 --> 00:30:32.658
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And then your vet is going to deworm your kitten and talk about repeated deworming.

00:30:32.658 --> 00:30:37.978
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And so we are going to want to check a fecal sample so we can see what's in there.

00:30:37.978 --> 00:30:42.598
Dr. Kelly Cairns: But we are also going to be likely what's called empirically deworming.

00:30:42.598 --> 00:30:47.318
Dr. Kelly Cairns: That means that if you can't get poop for whatever reason, we hope you can bring it, collect it.

00:30:47.318 --> 00:30:49.098
Dr. Kelly Cairns: We love you if you bring us poop.

00:30:49.098 --> 00:30:55.058
Dr. Kelly Cairns: But even if we do a fecal exam and it's negative for parasites, no test is perfect.

00:30:55.058 --> 00:31:10.918
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So your veterinarian is likely to recommend what's called empirically deworming to cover bases for common things that kittens can get, worms and other parasites, including coccidia, which is not a worm per se.

00:31:10.918 --> 00:31:12.698
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's a different type of parasite.

00:31:12.698 --> 00:31:18.898
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Okay, so these are all the things that are going to be happening at that first visit.

00:31:18.898 --> 00:31:26.798
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Your vet is going to also be talking to you, lest I forget, about flea, tick and heartworm treatment.

00:31:26.798 --> 00:31:36.178
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Not all of which might be started on that first visit, but it is critical that your vet make a recommendation and get things started to be proactive.

00:31:36.178 --> 00:31:39.798
Linda Hall: Fleas are, and they came in with fleas and ear mites and all kinds of trouble.

00:31:42.198 --> 00:31:48.138
Rita Reimers: Linda has a cat, an adult cat, that's FIV positive, so are there any precautions we need to worry about there?

00:31:48.138 --> 00:31:56.898
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Again, for the kitty that is FIV positive, that virus is a retrovirus similar to HIV that people get.

00:31:56.898 --> 00:31:58.378
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's a very different virus.

00:31:58.398 --> 00:32:00.358
Dr. Kelly Cairns: One is not contagious to other species.

00:32:00.358 --> 00:32:15.218
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's species specific, but it's in the same category of what we call retroviruses, meaning that a cat that's infected can ostensibly, it could stay what's called dormant forever and never impact quality or quantity of life.

00:32:15.218 --> 00:32:19.258
Dr. Kelly Cairns: If it is activated though, it can then cause problems.

00:32:19.258 --> 00:32:29.498
Dr. Kelly Cairns: We also are very proactive with a cat that has FIV to make sure that we change things we're doing in terms of monitoring.

00:32:29.498 --> 00:32:41.578
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And when they are sick with some sort of other issue unrelated to the FIV, we might have a modified treatment plan because we know that cat's immune system is not like other cats.

00:32:41.578 --> 00:32:42.118
Linda Hall: Yeah.

00:32:42.898 --> 00:32:44.878
Linda Hall: That's the kind of a thing in my house.

00:32:44.878 --> 00:32:48.078
Linda Hall: If one of the cat sneezes, it's like, hey guys, someone else will sneeze, keep an eye on him.

00:32:48.278 --> 00:32:52.118
Linda Hall: If Kismet sneezes, doctor, or your proact, right.

00:32:52.118 --> 00:32:55.458
Rita Reimers: Was there any concern about mixing him with the kittens though?

00:32:55.458 --> 00:32:56.318
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Well, that's a thing though.

00:32:56.378 --> 00:33:15.378
Dr. Kelly Cairns: The other thing is if you do have a cat that has FIV or FELV, you would want to make sure that that cat is not then interacting with other cats who are not FELV or FIV positive because the concern could be that the positive cat may spread it to the negative cats.

00:33:15.378 --> 00:33:18.718
Dr. Kelly Cairns: But that's a conversation to have with your veterinarian.

00:33:18.718 --> 00:33:21.918
Dr. Kelly Cairns: It's kind of individualized and a little complicated.

00:33:21.918 --> 00:33:28.498
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And just to make sure you're being practical and also proactive to protect all your cats.

00:33:28.498 --> 00:33:31.898
Linda Hall: We did separate, my adult cats are not happy.

00:33:31.898 --> 00:33:36.338
Linda Hall: There's 10 cats who have been locked out of my bedroom after being allowed to be in here all the time.

00:33:36.338 --> 00:33:38.018
Linda Hall: That was another problem that it caused.

00:33:38.018 --> 00:33:42.998
Linda Hall: But I just did not want to take the chance of the kittens having something and infecting the older cats.

00:33:42.998 --> 00:33:46.278
Linda Hall: My cat with FIV is a lover, not a fighter.

00:33:46.278 --> 00:33:49.598
Linda Hall: Like he just isn't one, he will not bite.

00:33:49.598 --> 00:34:00.338
Rita Reimers: But I don't know how he'd react if I stick to six week old, but I was concerned about the kittens sparting something to him also, because he's got that weakened immune system.

00:34:00.338 --> 00:34:01.298
Linda Hall: 100 percent.

00:34:01.298 --> 00:34:06.798
Rita Reimers: Unfortunately, we're going to have to wrap up soon, but as usual, I would love to give Dr.

00:34:06.798 --> 00:34:08.658
Rita Reimers: Kelly the last word.

00:34:08.658 --> 00:34:09.038
Linda Hall: All right.

00:34:09.038 --> 00:34:20.198
Dr. Kelly Cairns: We guys know I always like to leave our kitty lemon friends with an actionable toolkit of let's talk about the take-home points, knowledge is power, okay?

00:34:20.198 --> 00:34:28.138
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So in general, let's remember that if you do get the delightful pleasure of taking care of tiny little newborn kittens, you've got this, you can do it.

00:34:28.138 --> 00:34:32.058
Dr. Kelly Cairns: You want to partner with your veterinarian, and you want to trust your instincts, right?

00:34:32.058 --> 00:34:36.698
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So if something doesn't seem right, don't hesitate to contact your veterinarian.

00:34:36.698 --> 00:34:59.418
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Common sense things that we want to remind ourselves of, weakness or lethargy, depression, not eating, losing weight, not gaining weight, any trouble breathing, vomiting, diarhea, goopy eyes or nose, vocalizing in an odd, unusual way, if you're not sure if they're urinating or gethicating, okay?

00:34:59.418 --> 00:35:02.798
Dr. Kelly Cairns: Obviously, we're taking those kittens right in, all right?

00:35:02.798 --> 00:35:13.158
Dr. Kelly Cairns: And then it's really important to remember that kittens are, in addition to being small cats, they are different than small cats.

00:35:13.158 --> 00:35:22.338
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So even when we think about the ways cats are not like dogs, as it relates to things that might be okay over the counter to give a dog, they can be very toxic for a cat.

00:35:22.338 --> 00:35:33.438
Dr. Kelly Cairns: I'm going to also share things that might be fine to give over the counter to a cat may not be safe for a kitten, especially under eight weeks of age and under two pounds.

00:35:33.438 --> 00:35:45.718
Dr. Kelly Cairns: So you have to be incredibly careful, even with over the counter flea treatments and other things, to make sure if you're not at all positive, contact your veterinarian.

00:35:45.718 --> 00:35:57.338
Dr. Kelly Cairns: There's a lot of options for making sure that the kitten gets what it needs and it is safe, but it's not the time to be experimenting with things that we're not positive of.

00:35:57.338 --> 00:35:59.438
Rita Reimers: That makes complete sense.

00:35:59.438 --> 00:36:07.078
Rita Reimers: I know you've reinforced Linda and a lot of things she was doing and giving her some new things to think about, right?

00:36:07.078 --> 00:36:11.978
Rita Reimers: And hopefully anyone out there who is mothering kittens like this.

00:36:11.978 --> 00:36:14.478
Rita Reimers: I have to give a special shout out to Hannah Shaw.

00:36:14.478 --> 00:36:18.398
Rita Reimers: This is all kitten lady does, is deal with these diddy bitties.

00:36:18.398 --> 00:36:20.738
Rita Reimers: You know, I've been through it a couple of times.

00:36:20.738 --> 00:36:23.658
Rita Reimers: I think Linda's said this is it once is enough, right?

00:36:23.658 --> 00:36:26.358
Rita Reimers: So God bless you, Hannah Shaw.

00:36:26.358 --> 00:36:27.098
Rita Reimers: Thank you, Dr.

00:36:27.098 --> 00:36:29.838
Rita Reimers: Kelly, for giving us your wisdom as usual.

00:36:29.838 --> 00:36:31.278
Rita Reimers: I know this is going to be a great episode.

00:36:31.378 --> 00:36:33.638
Rita Reimers: You're going to help a lot of people with this.

00:36:33.638 --> 00:36:36.398
Rita Reimers: And Linda Hall, better you than me.

00:36:36.398 --> 00:36:39.678
Rita Reimers: Thanks, Mark Winter, for giving us this platform.

00:36:39.678 --> 00:36:41.358
Rita Reimers: We so appreciate it.

00:36:41.358 --> 00:36:45.278
Rita Reimers: And remember, every day is cat and kitten day.

00:36:45.278 --> 00:36:46.858
Linda Hall: See you next time.

00:36:46.858 --> 00:36:52.878
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