Feeding Fears: Bird Flu and the Raw Diet Debate
There’s no doubt that raw food for our cats and dogs has arguably been the number one choice, touted by veterinarians and pet experts alike. Closer to what cats and dogs would eat in nature, the benefits of feeding raw range from improved appetite, weight management, and healthier skin and coats.
However, our love of the raw diet has now been tarnished. H5N1, aka Bird Flu, has been found in numerous raw meals, causing illness and even death in a few cases. The FDA is demanding better control over the manufacture of raw pet foods, while the AVMA says “Feline susceptibility to H5N1 is a cause for vigilance.” Steve Dale is here to help us understand what is happening in the pet food industry: is raw food still a good choice for our cats, or do we go back to traditional cooked meals for our cats? Let’s find out…
Listen to Episode #139 Now:
BIO:
Steve Dale, certified animal behavior consultant (CABC), has reached more pet owners over the past few decades than any other pet journalist in America.
He is the host of two nationally syndicated radio shows, Steve Dale’s Pet World and The Pet Minute (together heard on more than 100 radio stations, syndicated Black Dog Radio Productions, since 2005). He’s also a special contributor at WGN Radio, Chicago, and program host of Steve Dale’s Pet World(since 1997). He formerly hosted the nationally broadcastAnimal Planet Radio.
For 21 years, his twice weekly newspaper column was syndicated by the Chicago Tribune. Steve was a contributing editor for USA Weekend (2002 to 2014), and regular columnist at Cat Fancy magazine (2006 to 2014). He has written for a long list of magazines, from People to Dog World (where he was a columnist).
He’s currently a writer and contributing editor for CATster, andauthors a column called Steve Dale’s Vet World for Veterinary Practice News. He’s also a columnist for the Journal of National Association of Veterinary Technicians in America and PetVet magazine.
He also contributes blogs for various websites, including for Victoria Stilwell.
On TV, he’s appeared on The Oprah Winfrey Show, National Geographic Explorer, Pets: Part of the Family(PBS), Fox News, various Animal Planet shows, and many others. For several years, Steve was a regular contributor to Superstation WGN-TV morning news, then appeared regularly on WMAQ-TV, Chicago. Currently, he’s a contributor to nationally syndicated HouseSmarts TV. Steve’s also a frequent host of satellite media tours.
In print, he’s been quoted in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Los Angeles Times, Redbook, various veterinary publications, and dozens more. He has also appeared as an expert guest on countless radio programs.
Steve co-edited Decoding Your Dog, written by the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2014). Steve’s the author of ebooks, Good Dog! and Good Cat! (Chicago Tribune, 2013). He’s the author of several other books, including My New Puppy, DogGone Chicago and American Zoos.
Steve is a contributor to textbooks The Cat: Clinical Medicine and Management (edited Dr. Susan Little, 2011); Treatment and Care of the Geriatric Veterinary Patient (edited Dr. Mary Gardner and Dr. Dani McVety, 2017) and El Gato Atropellado (translated The Cat: Hit by a Car, edited Dr. Luis Tello, 2019) Foreword for Infectious Disease Handbook (Merck Animal Health, 2017). He was an external reviewer for the 2005 Feline Behavior Guidelines (American Association of Feline Practitioners).
He’s written introductions or contributed chapters and forewords to many books, including Heartfelt Connections: How Animals and People Help One Another; The Pet Parent's Guide: Infectious Disease of Dogs; Cats Revealed: Everything You've Ever Wanted to Know About Living Happily with a Cat; Bonding With Your Dog, Dog Spelled Backwards; The Compassion of Dogs; Raising My Furry Children; Christmas Cats; Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul, and Angel Animals and the Kids Who Love Them.
He’s the primary author of the CATegorical Care: An Owner’s Guide to America’s Number #1 Companion (reviewers include AVMA, SAWA), published American Humane Association/CATalyst Council, 2010). He co-authored (with Dr. Sagi Denenberg) the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior Position Statement on Breed-Specific Legislation (2014). Edited: 50 Years of Advancing Feline Medicine: Winn Feline Foundation Helping Every Cat, Every Day (2018) and Preparing for the Future Celebrating the Winn Feline Foundation at 40 (2008).
Steve is a founder of the CATalyst Council and served on the Board of Directors from 2008 to 2012. After six years, in 2012, he cycled off the Board of Directors of the American Humane Association and served as a National Ambassador. He was a member of the Board of Directors of Tree House Humane Society, Chicago (2005 to 2016). He’s also on the Board of Directors of the Winn Feline Foundation (2007 to present), American Association of Human-Animal Bond Veterinarians (2016 to present). He’s an Advisory Board Member of Chicago Friends of Animal Care & Control (2013to present), SPCA Puerto Vallarta (2016 to present) and Grey Muzzle Organization (2017 to present).
Steve is also a part of an AVMA/AAHA initiative to encourage preventive veterinary care, called Partners for Health Pets. In 2014, Steve co-founded Veterinary Professionals Against Puppy Mills, and serves on the Board of Directors. Steve is on the Pet Partners Human-Animal Bond National Advisory Board (2015 to present) and National Advisory Council Member American Association of Feline Practitioners (20016 to present). He was National Advisory Board Member Angel on a Leash (2005 to 2016) and Task Force on Feline Sterilization (2015 to 2017).
Steve’s a speaker for American Association of Feline Practitioners Cat Friendly Practices and the Fear Free Initiative. He’s on the Fear Free Advisory Council (2013 to present) and is the Chief Correspondent Fear Free Happy Homes, and is certified in Fear Free.
In Chicago, Steve created the Chicago Task Force on Companion Animals and Public Safety (2000-2010), where three-times proposed breed bans were over-turned and twice over-turned proposed mandated pediatric spay/neuter, as well as proposed pet limit laws. The Task Force also created guidelines for ‘doggy day care.’ As a pet advocate, Steve has testified many times against breed specific bans, pet limit laws, etc. in the Chicago area and elsewhere. Steve regularly advised Illinois Governor Pat Quinn regarding pet-related issues, including leading on bills to prohibit breed-specific bans and prosecute dog fighters with enhanced felony charges when convicted of fighting near schools or daycare centers. In 2019, it was Steve's idea to create the first fire fire protection law for pets in kennels, which was signed by Governor J. B. Pritzker.
Among Steve’s many awards, the AVMA Humane Award (the only AVMA honor bestowed to a non-veterinarian), Editor and Publisher syndicated newspaper Feature Writer of the Year Award, AKC Responsible Dog Ownership Public Service Award (twice), HSUS Pets for Life Award, American Humane Association Media Award, American Pet Products Association Pet Industry Outstanding Media Representative of the Year, and has been honored with over 15 Maxwell’s Awards from the Dog Writer’s Association of America and over 15 Muse Awards from the Cat Writers’ Association of America. He’s also been honored by the Chicago Veterinary Medical Association, University of Illinois College of Veterinary Medicine, Friends of Chicago Animal Care and Control, and was the first recipient of the Winn Feline Foundation Media Appreciation Award, and many others.
In 2012, Steve became the youngest person ever inducted into the Dog Writer’s Association of America Hall of Fame.
After his beloved cat Ricky passed away in 2002 of feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM), Steve created the Ricky Fund with the Winn Feline Foundation to raise money to research this often-fatal disease. He’s helped to raise over $200,000 – and as a direct result a genetic test was created to determine if a gene defect for HCM exists for two breeds, and further studies are underway.
Steve’s a regular speaker at veterinary and shelter conferences around the world, and for shelter fundraisers, and other special events, including SXSW. Steve’s presented numerous times at each of the major U.S. veterinary conferences, and at state and regional meetings as well as at veterinary schools, and several times for the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants. He’s also spoken at the World Small Animal Veterinary Association Conference (Sydney, Australia); CICA Animal Behavior Conference (Mexico City, Mexico); Latin American Veterinary Conference (Lima, Peru); Congreso Veterinario de Leon (Leon, Mexico); Congreso Veternario de Columbia (Pereira, Columbia); Caribbean Veterinary Conference (St. Kitts); Companion Animal Nutrition Summit (San Jose, Costa Rica); and (via Skype) Australian and New Zealand College of Veterinary Scientists Veterinary Behaviour Chapter Science Week (Brisbane, Australia).
Steve’s persistence convinced the Chicago White Sox to allow dogs at a major league baseball game – today, ball parks around America have periodic “dog days” promotions. In 2004, he suggested Mercury Skyline Cruiseline create “The Canine Cruise,” a dog-friendly architecture cruise for dogs on Lake Michigan/Chicago River, also replicated in other cities.
Steve is also the host (since 2015) of a popular WGN Podcast,Steve Dale’s Other World(about topics generally unrelated to pets).
Two of Steve’s favorite honors: Commencement Speaker at Madison Square Garden for Ross University School of Veterinary Medicine (2008), and appearing (in 2012) as 59 across in a TV Guide Crossword Puzzle (pet journalist Steve _ _ _ _).
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Linda Hall: Hello, my cat-loving friends.
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Linda Hall: I hope you had an amazing holiday season.
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Linda Hall: After the holidays, we started getting hit with all this news about raw food, right?
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Linda Hall: Raw food's everything, raw food's the best.
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Linda Hall: Raw food will help your cats to live forever.
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Linda Hall: It's the greatest thing on earth.
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Linda Hall: Oh, wait, now, bird flu, and we're very confused.
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Linda Hall: So Rita and I did what anyone would do.
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Linda Hall: We reached out to Steve Dale, because, you know, the man's got his hands in everything that's companion animal related, at the very least.
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Linda Hall: Syndicated.
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Linda Hall: Radio shows and podcasts and books and appearances, and he sits on 12,000 boards.
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Linda Hall: I couldn't possibly tell you all of it.
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Linda Hall: So we're going to take a break to hear a word from our amazing sponsor.
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Linda Hall: Amazing.
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Linda Hall: And then we're going to come back and we're going to pick Steve's brain and find out what he can tell us about all of this.
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Rita Reimers: Because we're so confused.
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Rita Reimers: We'll be right back.
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Linda Hall: Hey, it's Linda Hall from 19 Cats and Counting.
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Rita Reimers: And I'm Rita Reimers from 19 Cats and Counting.
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Rita Reimers: You know the expression that cats have nine lives?
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Rita Reimers: Well, what if you can give them one more?
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Rita Reimers: The Give Them Ten movement is on a mission to help give cats an extra life.
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Rita Reimers: How?
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Linda Hall: With spay and neuter.
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Linda Hall: Spaying or neutering your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life.
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Linda Hall: And it helps control the free roaming cat populations too.
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Linda Hall: You can learn more about the benefits of spay and neuter and meet Scooter, the neutered cat, at givethemten.org.
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Rita Reimers: That's givethemten.org.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets on petliferadio.com.
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Linda Hall: Welcome back to 19 Cats and Counting.
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Linda Hall: I am your co-host, Linda Hall.
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Linda Hall: This is where I usually say I'm here with my gorgeous BFF, but she's incredibly ill.
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Linda Hall: And so, I was gonna do it without her, but Steve's first words were, it's just you, I wanted both of you.
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Linda Hall: So I'm feeling kind of sad, but you know.
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Steve Dale: You should back up a little bit, because when you say incredibly ill, I think you're gonna scare people.
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Linda Hall: Oh, no.
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Linda Hall: It's thick like, blue thick, where you think you're not gonna make it, but you're, it's the-
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Linda Hall: Yeah.
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Steve Dale: She'll be okay.
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Linda Hall: Oh, reasonable.
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Linda Hall: Yeah, she'll be fine.
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Linda Hall: Fever, the yucky stuff.
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Linda Hall: So welcome back, Steve.
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Linda Hall: We're so glad to have you back.
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Steve Dale: Talking to both of you is one of my favorite things to do when I have the opportunity to do it.
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Steve Dale: This will not be a favorite topic to talk about, but you and I, before we talk about bird flu, if you have time, we were talking before we began about Las Vegas.
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Steve Dale: I don't know how that came up, but I go to a veterinary conference every year in Las Vegas.
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Steve Dale: I've been going well over 20 years.
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Steve Dale: And one year, this has to do with cat behavior.
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Steve Dale: One year, I was, it's at New York, New York.
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Steve Dale: The conference was then maybe at MGM.
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Steve Dale: And there's a, now it's at Mandalay Bay.
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Steve Dale: It's the Western Veterinary Conference, sometimes called Viticus.
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Steve Dale: I'll be there this year, by the way, if you're a veterinary professional, I'll be presenting, I think, six times there.
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Steve Dale: So, and as a conference, it is wonderful.
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Steve Dale: Not necessarily a big Vegas person, but anyway.
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Linda Hall: I've never been.
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Linda Hall: Can you believe it?
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Linda Hall: Is there something wrong with me?
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Linda Hall: I'm gonna be 58 in March and I've never been to Vegas.
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Steve Dale: It's fun.
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Steve Dale: And the shows are great.
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Steve Dale: The restaurants now are great.
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Steve Dale: Not cheap.
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Steve Dale: It's not an expensive place to be.
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Steve Dale: But I don't gamble, you know.
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Steve Dale: So I'm there for solely for the Veterinary Conference.
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Steve Dale: I really am.
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Steve Dale: So you're inside all day watching these amazing lectures or in my case, sometimes lecturing and I got out, you know, just walking to the next hotel over.
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Steve Dale: And I had one of those drinks that you drink.
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Steve Dale: That's a mix of who knows what kind of liquor and strawberry stuff or something.
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Steve Dale: You would know, it goes in a mix of things.
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Linda Hall: Kind of like a frozen, like a Dakarito margarita or something along those lines.
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Linda Hall: Yeah, exactly.
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Linda Hall: Those are my GM.
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Linda Hall: I'm not a drinker unless it's fruity and frozen and delicious sleep.
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Steve Dale: You would love those.
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Steve Dale: Yes.
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Steve Dale: So I'm sitting on a bench drinking my frozen thing.
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Steve Dale: It was just me.
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Steve Dale: It was toward the end of the conference.
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Steve Dale: And this woman sits next to me and says, Oh, what are you doing in Vegas?
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Steve Dale: Because everybody there is not from Vegas.
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Linda Hall: Right, of course.
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Steve Dale: In that part of Vegas.
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Linda Hall: Yeah.
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Steve Dale: And this was probably 10, 30, 11 o'clock at night.
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Steve Dale: And I said, Oh, I'm here for a veterinary meeting.
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Steve Dale: She said, Oh, you're a veterinarian.
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Steve Dale: I said, No, no, I'm an animal behavior consultant.
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Steve Dale: She said, Well, what did you talk about?
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Steve Dale: And I remember that that particular year, one of the topics was cats thinking outside the box, essentially, inappropriate elimination, right?
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Steve Dale: So I told her that and she said, Wow, because I have a cat and she's describing her scenario.
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Steve Dale: So she has a cat who's missing the litter box or not hitting the litter box.
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Steve Dale: I don't remember all the specifics, but I think I gave her some good advice after she told me exactly what was going on.
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Steve Dale: How many boxes do you have?
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Steve Dale: What kind of litter do you use?
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Steve Dale: Have you had your cat medically checked?
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Steve Dale: All those things, right?
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Linda Hall: Are there cats outside?
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Steve Dale: Yeah, well, right.
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Steve Dale: Yeah, all those questions, right?
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Steve Dale: Is it, I'm figuring out in my head, is it spraying or is it voiding?
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Steve Dale: You know, all those things.
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Steve Dale: So I asked her the questions, gave her some advice and she said, I think that might be helpful actually, because she wasn't doing some things, whatever they were.
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Steve Dale: And she said, I really should pay you back.
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Steve Dale: I said, what do you mean?
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Steve Dale: She said, I said, I don't want any money.
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Steve Dale: She said, oh no, I wouldn't give you money.
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Steve Dale: I said, what do you mean?
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Steve Dale: I still was not getting it.
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Steve Dale: That's how naive I am.
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Steve Dale: And I'm a big settler in Chicago, but I don't know this stuff about Vegas.
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Steve Dale: So I said, what do you mean by that?
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Steve Dale: And she says, do you have a pen?
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Steve Dale: And I did.
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Steve Dale: And she had a piece of paper and she wrote down her address.
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Steve Dale: And I said, what's this?
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Steve Dale: She said, it's my address.
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Steve Dale: I said, well, what is that for?
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Steve Dale: And she said, cash only, by the way.
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Steve Dale: I said, what?
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Steve Dale: So then I finally began to catch on.
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Steve Dale: So that's what's important is that I helped her cat.
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Linda Hall: And I love that you were naive to not be like, oh, that's what she wants, right?
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Linda Hall: Was your wife like, good job, baby, good job.
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Steve Dale: My wife is going with me this year.
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Steve Dale: She's been on subsequent trips.
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Steve Dale: And after hearing that story, perhaps that is why.
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Linda Hall: She's got me with.
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Linda Hall: I would too.
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Linda Hall: Yeah, I get that too.
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Linda Hall: So what do you do for a living?
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Linda Hall: I'm a cat behaviorist.
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Linda Hall: I have a cat.
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Steve Dale: Always.
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Steve Dale: So let's talk about bird flu.
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Linda Hall: Well, okay.
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Steve Dale: Or avian influenza or any number of terms.
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Linda Hall: H5N1, is it now?
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Linda Hall: I was looking at that.
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Steve Dale: That's the exact strain.
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Steve Dale: And I'll circle back to that because that's important in a way for something else that Dr.
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Steve Dale: Scott Weiss has brought up in his most recent blog post actually.
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Steve Dale: So this has been around for a while, and it's a worldwide epidemic, really.
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Steve Dale: I mean, millions of birds, if not upwards of a billion, have been culled all over the world.
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Steve Dale: But it's not only chickens or turkey poultry on farms, it's also wildlife.
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Steve Dale: It's wild geese.
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Steve Dale: It's even songbirds and even bull vines.
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Steve Dale: So the bird flu has crossed over into cattle, which is part of the reason why we're about to talk about what we're about to talk about with cat food.
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Steve Dale: It has been suggested that dogs are absolutely immune.
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Steve Dale: That's not true.
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Steve Dale: We don't know the extent of how dogs, I'll get the cats in a minute, how dogs can be affected or their susceptibility.
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Steve Dale: But we do know at least one dog has passed.
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Steve Dale: And we know that some countries, including China, aren't keeping careful records and or aren't telling us what they know anyway, necessarily, which harkens back to something else that happened in 2020.
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Steve Dale: And it's no different, but this isn't only China, it's a worldwide issue, including, I forget the exact number of states identified in America, but it's nearly half the states where it's been identified in one place or another.
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Steve Dale: I live in Chicago, in the heart of the city, or near the heart of the city, a bald eagle.
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Steve Dale: A bald eagle was identified and ultimately euthanized as a result of bird flu.
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Steve Dale: So I want to go back to dogs.
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Steve Dale: So it had been suggested since there had been few reports that dogs had gotten ill, that you could let your dog run safely around poultry if you live in a rural area, around a farm, no problem.
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Steve Dale: That's not the case.
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Steve Dale: But we don't know if dogs are less susceptible, are getting it as often and generally don't show symptoms, because one dog has died, so nobody knows.
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Steve Dale: Now let's talk about what you're here to talk about.
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Linda Hall: You mentioned harkening back to 2020, and that is exactly, it was like, oh, kids are fine.
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Linda Hall: Oh, wait, there's kids.
00:09:30.869 --> 00:09:34.569
Linda Hall: And then it was, okay, it's only the old or those kids, da-da-da-da-da-da.
00:09:34.569 --> 00:09:38.309
Linda Hall: And we talked a little bit before coming on about like, you know, we don't have all the answers right now.
00:09:38.309 --> 00:09:41.809
Linda Hall: You had said to me, like, I don't know exactly how informative I'm going to be.
00:09:41.809 --> 00:09:43.429
Linda Hall: I'm going to tell you what I know.
00:09:43.429 --> 00:09:51.589
Linda Hall: But there's a lot, just like I told, I was in ICU with COVID in 2020, and I remember asking my doctor questions and him saying, ask me years from now, would we have all the info?
00:09:51.589 --> 00:09:53.349
Linda Hall: We don't know.
00:09:53.349 --> 00:09:55.669
Linda Hall: We haven't seen, we have to see how it comes out.
00:09:55.669 --> 00:09:58.749
Linda Hall: And they were saying they were afraid that cats could give it to us.
00:09:58.749 --> 00:10:00.509
Linda Hall: Well, then no cats can't give it to us.
00:10:00.509 --> 00:10:03.389
Linda Hall: But then they turned around and said, PS, we can give it to our cats.
00:10:03.389 --> 00:10:05.289
Linda Hall: So quit throwing your cats out the doors.
00:10:05.509 --> 00:10:09.289
Linda Hall: It's just, there's all of this, and all of the information hasn't been gathered yet.
00:10:09.289 --> 00:10:11.409
Linda Hall: So I guess I want to put that out of the disclaimer.
00:10:11.409 --> 00:10:16.189
Linda Hall: We're going to talk about what we know to this point, and then we'll try to put some action into it.
00:10:16.189 --> 00:10:18.249
Linda Hall: But yeah, we don't have all the answers, right?
00:10:18.249 --> 00:10:19.109
Linda Hall: It's still ongoing.
00:10:19.449 --> 00:10:20.809
Steve Dale: Yeah, and we're calling it bird flu.
00:10:20.809 --> 00:10:29.609
Steve Dale: Now it's being called Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza, HPAI more often, just as a point of reference.
00:10:29.609 --> 00:10:31.509
Steve Dale: But to some extent, it's tomato, tomato.
00:10:31.509 --> 00:10:33.349
Steve Dale: We all know what we're talking about here.
00:10:33.349 --> 00:10:35.029
Steve Dale: Cats are susceptible.
00:10:35.029 --> 00:10:39.689
Steve Dale: They're likely, he says carefully, more susceptible than dogs.
00:10:39.689 --> 00:10:44.969
Steve Dale: A number of cats, unknown exactly, have succumbed.
00:10:45.789 --> 00:10:48.969
Steve Dale: Well, we keep fairly careful track in America.
00:10:48.969 --> 00:10:50.329
Steve Dale: Other countries don't.
00:10:50.329 --> 00:10:52.009
Steve Dale: So worldwide, we don't.
00:10:52.009 --> 00:11:03.669
Steve Dale: Even in America, we don't because if a cat, especially not as much today, but especially say a year ago, passed away, who does a necropsy or animal autopsy?
00:11:03.689 --> 00:11:04.369
Steve Dale: Absolutely.
00:11:04.369 --> 00:11:06.169
Steve Dale: That is incredibly rare.
00:11:06.169 --> 00:11:29.109
Steve Dale: A veterinarian may not suspect that had been the cause, because it was thought that if you don't live on a farm, and the cat isn't killing only farm animals, that particularly birds like chickens and turkeys, then it's not likely at all if at all possible for the cat to get bird flu.
00:11:29.109 --> 00:11:31.109
Steve Dale: And that turns out not to be true.
00:11:31.109 --> 00:11:42.729
Steve Dale: So we know today that if your cat is an indoor outdoor cat, and I can and am happy to talk about why cats should be indoors only for a whole plethora of other reasons.
00:11:44.509 --> 00:12:03.009
Steve Dale: With one exception which I can talk about as well, here is another reason for cats to be indoors because if that cat were to even a songbird that's already sick with bird flu or anything else, if that bird is carrying bird flu, then the cat could get it.
00:12:03.009 --> 00:12:08.469
Steve Dale: What's more, that cat could bring it home to us where we get sick.
00:12:08.469 --> 00:12:10.449
Steve Dale: How susceptible are we?
00:12:10.449 --> 00:12:11.429
Steve Dale: Again, it's unknown.
00:12:11.929 --> 00:12:22.729
Steve Dale: Now, the government has said we're concerned enough that if you work anywhere near farm animals, farm poultry animals, but now it's farm animals pretty much.
00:12:22.729 --> 00:12:25.849
Linda Hall: Well, yeah, you said it's crossing into bovine, into cows now, so.
00:12:25.849 --> 00:12:26.569
Steve Dale: Yeah.
00:12:26.569 --> 00:12:32.189
Steve Dale: Then if that's the case, then you need protective clothing to wear.
00:12:32.189 --> 00:12:36.329
Steve Dale: And we know how to do that now because we did several years ago.
00:12:36.329 --> 00:12:38.269
Linda Hall: The lessons that COVID taught us.
00:12:38.269 --> 00:12:39.089
Steve Dale: Yeah.
00:12:39.089 --> 00:12:40.329
Steve Dale: So now it's available.
00:12:41.049 --> 00:12:41.789
Steve Dale: We know where to get it.
00:12:41.789 --> 00:12:43.849
Steve Dale: And most importantly, we know how to do it.
00:12:43.849 --> 00:12:50.989
Steve Dale: But there does seem to be, let me rephrase that, there is a chance that people can get this too.
00:12:50.989 --> 00:12:53.029
Steve Dale: Which people are more susceptible?
00:12:53.029 --> 00:12:53.829
Steve Dale: We don't know yet.
00:12:53.829 --> 00:13:00.449
Steve Dale: Are they mostly younger people, mostly people with other illnesses that have comorbidities as the fancy term for that?
00:13:00.449 --> 00:13:02.529
Steve Dale: Is it people that are only older?
00:13:02.529 --> 00:13:04.049
Steve Dale: It doesn't seem to be the case.
00:13:04.049 --> 00:13:06.669
Steve Dale: It just means people exposed.
00:13:06.669 --> 00:13:13.589
Steve Dale: And why some individuals get ill and others don't is still unknown, but it may not be any of those things that I rattled off.
00:13:13.589 --> 00:13:17.149
Linda Hall: Well, I think the majority of our population has some sort of immunodeficiency anyway.
00:13:17.149 --> 00:13:18.509
Linda Hall: I mean, as it's coming out like, you know.
00:13:18.509 --> 00:13:19.589
Steve Dale: Actually, that's true.
00:13:19.589 --> 00:13:20.409
Linda Hall: I have a mess.
00:13:20.409 --> 00:13:22.829
Linda Hall: I know a lot of people that have fibro-chronicity.
00:13:22.829 --> 00:13:33.329
Linda Hall: There's a plethora of autoimmune illnesses and you can't throw a stone and not get somebody who's got an autoimmune illness, which means you're gonna catch it quicker and your body is less able to fight it off.
00:13:33.329 --> 00:13:38.189
Linda Hall: That's something I am very aware of in going out in public since 2020.
00:13:38.909 --> 00:13:41.589
Linda Hall: I'm all walking, you know, catch me, catch me.
00:13:41.589 --> 00:13:42.909
Linda Hall: I want to get sick.
00:13:42.909 --> 00:13:43.509
Linda Hall: Send it to me.
00:13:43.509 --> 00:13:45.949
Steve Dale: No, you don't want to get sick, but you can is what you're saying.
00:13:45.949 --> 00:13:47.969
Linda Hall: It's the message I seem to be sending.
00:13:47.989 --> 00:13:52.689
Linda Hall: Like if there's something going around, it's gonna glob onto me.
00:13:52.689 --> 00:13:53.769
Linda Hall: Yes.
00:13:53.769 --> 00:14:01.029
Steve Dale: So the government has recently said that if you're around cows, don't drink the milk.
00:14:01.029 --> 00:14:05.589
Steve Dale: Now, I don't know a lot of people who go to literally do that.
00:14:06.689 --> 00:14:09.609
Steve Dale: And remember that I Love Lucy episode?
00:14:09.609 --> 00:14:11.969
Steve Dale: And Lucy sprayed the milk in her mouth.
00:14:11.969 --> 00:14:13.889
Steve Dale: And Lucy in Italy.
00:14:13.889 --> 00:14:14.709
Steve Dale: Yeah.
00:14:14.709 --> 00:14:18.969
Linda Hall: Raw milk is a huge push right now for human beings and where you can get it.
00:14:18.969 --> 00:14:19.389
Steve Dale: Yeah.
00:14:19.389 --> 00:14:26.189
Steve Dale: But it turns out at this moment, I have no clue one way or the other about health benefits or not of raw milk.
00:14:26.189 --> 00:14:33.309
Steve Dale: But at this moment, because bird flu can actually be spread that way, the recommendation is to don't do that.
00:14:34.049 --> 00:14:36.489
Steve Dale: Now, getting back to Cats.
00:14:36.489 --> 00:14:37.089
Linda Hall: Okay.
00:14:37.089 --> 00:14:41.029
Linda Hall: We got to stop for a break because Rita is not here to patrol me and I just realized I'm running low.
00:14:41.029 --> 00:14:43.429
Linda Hall: So let's take a break and then we're going to get back to the Cats.
00:14:43.429 --> 00:14:44.469
Linda Hall: Exactly.
00:14:44.469 --> 00:14:45.729
Linda Hall: Yeah, there's your tease.
00:14:45.729 --> 00:14:47.129
Linda Hall: There's your teaser.
00:14:47.129 --> 00:14:48.109
Linda Hall: Everybody hang in there.
00:14:48.109 --> 00:14:51.349
Linda Hall: We'll be right back afterwards from our amazing sponsor.
00:14:54.669 --> 00:14:57.929
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00:14:57.929 --> 00:15:00.089
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00:15:00.509 --> 00:15:06.069
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00:15:17.469 --> 00:15:24.729
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00:15:25.809 --> 00:15:29.069
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00:15:36.549 --> 00:15:50.629
Linda Hall: PetLifeRadio.com Welcome back to 19 Cats and Counting.
00:15:50.739 --> 00:15:56.019
Linda Hall: I believe you were in the middle, Steve, of relating this now to the cat situation.
00:15:56.019 --> 00:16:13.619
Steve Dale: Right, so it has been identified that at least some percent of cats that have come down positively with bird flu or avian influenza virus or all these other names that it has had exposure to raw food diets.
00:16:14.579 --> 00:16:29.459
Steve Dale: Now, if you want to begin a bar fight, the person next to you at the bar, talk to them about raw food diet or fresh, you know, what kind of food you should feed, a dog, a cat, a pet ferret, whatever it is.
00:16:29.459 --> 00:16:39.359
Steve Dale: And I mentioned ferrets, by the way, on purpose because what I didn't say and should have, even though you're not, maybe you'll transition to do this one day, but you're not a podcast for ferret lovers.
00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:45.379
Linda Hall: We're not, but you don't know, people have multiple different kinds of animals in their home, so we're all about getting everybody out.
00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:45.899
Steve Dale: Yeah.
00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:54.399
Steve Dale: So ferrets actually seem to be European ferrets, those we have as pets, do seem to be also equally susceptible as cats.
00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:59.019
Steve Dale: And incidentally, that's not a surprise knowing what we know.
00:16:59.019 --> 00:17:15.439
Steve Dale: So when COVID-19 first came about, what we're calling COVID-19 for the purposes of this, it was suggested, and the prediction turned out to be correct, that dogs wouldn't be as susceptible as cats or ferrets.
00:17:15.439 --> 00:17:20.239
Steve Dale: And it turned out that ferrets and cats were equally susceptible more or less.
00:17:20.239 --> 00:17:25.839
Steve Dale: Of course, we heard about it more on cats because there aren't nearly as many pet ferrets, but people do pet ferrets.
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:27.539
Linda Hall: Oh, my husband used to have them.
00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:28.119
Steve Dale: Yeah, they're wonderful.
00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:29.059
Linda Hall: He had one years ago, yeah.
00:17:29.059 --> 00:17:30.699
Steve Dale: Oh, they're a ton of fun.
00:17:30.699 --> 00:17:37.059
Steve Dale: However, you shouldn't let your ferret out roaming outside anyway because of a whole assortment of other reasons.
00:17:37.399 --> 00:17:46.759
Steve Dale: With laws, having said that, the raw food deal goes for ferrets as well as it does cats, and likely dogs too.
00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:55.519
Steve Dale: So now, at this point in time, by my count, two raw food diets have been recalled because they've caused a problem in cats.
00:17:55.519 --> 00:18:00.239
Steve Dale: But the veterinary experts, of which I say again, I am not.
00:18:00.239 --> 00:18:04.879
Steve Dale: I am reporting what infectious disease experts have said, and I've written about it.
00:18:04.879 --> 00:18:10.839
Steve Dale: And when I wrote about it, the reply back has been, oh, there they go again, trashing raw food.
00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:14.179
Steve Dale: I can assure you of one thing for sure.
00:18:14.179 --> 00:18:23.799
Steve Dale: These infectious disease veterinarians don't care a hoot about the raw food versus kibble versus whatever, whatever, whatever argument.
00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:26.599
Steve Dale: They're just reporting what they know, period.
00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:27.419
Linda Hall: Well, that's it.
00:18:27.419 --> 00:18:28.899
Linda Hall: Let me tell you something, okay?
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:37.159
Linda Hall: Let me reach into my drawer right aside me and prove on camera, I just dubbed that I feed my cats partially a raw diet.
00:18:37.159 --> 00:18:40.099
Linda Hall: I don't now because I don't know what's going on.
00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:43.019
Linda Hall: This isn't bashing anyone, okay?
00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:45.919
Linda Hall: I have a company that I freaking adore for raw food.
00:18:45.919 --> 00:18:46.999
Linda Hall: And yeah, I do it.
00:18:46.999 --> 00:18:48.539
Linda Hall: And it has helped for many ways.
00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:50.579
Linda Hall: This is probiotics, prebiotics, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:51.899
Linda Hall: But stuff happens, right?
00:18:51.899 --> 00:18:54.339
Linda Hall: Food gets tainted, human food, animal food.
00:18:54.339 --> 00:18:55.839
Linda Hall: It has nothing to do with the company.
00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:57.099
Linda Hall: There's some crappy companies out there.
00:18:57.099 --> 00:18:58.699
Linda Hall: Let's not choke around about that.
00:18:59.019 --> 00:19:02.979
Linda Hall: But that doesn't just say that anybody that has a recall is a crappy company.
00:19:02.979 --> 00:19:04.539
Linda Hall: Stuff happens.
00:19:04.539 --> 00:19:07.299
Linda Hall: Bird flu was not predicted in the environment.
00:19:07.299 --> 00:19:13.279
Linda Hall: However, if this is a problem, then I pause on the raw diet until we have a handle on it.
00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:15.499
Linda Hall: We have 12 cats in this house.
00:19:15.499 --> 00:19:26.859
Steve Dale: Well, well, and that's the other concern too, because if for some reason one cat does get it, then it's called highly pathogenic avian influenza is one of those terms that's used.
00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:36.739
Steve Dale: Highly pathogenic, so it is a concern for people that have multi-cat homes, and most people that have a cat don't have one, they have more than one.
00:19:36.939 --> 00:19:37.879
Steve Dale: Right.
00:19:37.879 --> 00:19:38.739
Steve Dale: You go a little over.
00:19:38.739 --> 00:19:39.699
Linda Hall: Hopefully not 12.
00:19:39.699 --> 00:19:41.199
Steve Dale: But we love you for that.
00:19:41.199 --> 00:19:43.699
Linda Hall: I love your back.
00:19:43.699 --> 00:20:02.739
Steve Dale: So we don't know how this is all going to play out, but the recommendation, and you can go to AVMA, the American Veterinary Medical Association, avma.org, several state veterinary associations have said independently also what the AVMA has recommended.
00:20:02.739 --> 00:20:13.519
Steve Dale: Some infectious disease veterinarians have also suggested that if it, essentially the veterinarians have said, if it's me, I'm not feeding raw food anymore.
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:19.099
Steve Dale: And the official organizations have recommended against doing it for cats, for sure.
00:20:19.099 --> 00:20:21.959
Steve Dale: For carrots, for carrots, for parrots.
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:24.659
Steve Dale: No, I don't mean, for ferrets, ferret.
00:20:24.659 --> 00:20:25.419
Steve Dale: Take three.
00:20:25.419 --> 00:20:27.319
Linda Hall: Carrots, carrots, carrots.
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:28.839
Steve Dale: Don't feed a carrot.
00:20:30.099 --> 00:20:31.619
Linda Hall: I don't think my cats, you want a carrot?
00:20:31.619 --> 00:20:32.779
Linda Hall: No, they're not into it.
00:20:32.779 --> 00:20:33.739
Steve Dale: Probably not.
00:20:33.739 --> 00:20:34.219
Steve Dale: No.
00:20:34.219 --> 00:20:35.439
Steve Dale: For ferrets?
00:20:35.439 --> 00:20:36.099
Steve Dale: Probably not.
00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:37.219
Steve Dale: And for dogs?
00:20:37.219 --> 00:20:43.499
Steve Dale: If it's me, I'm erring on the side of safety, but I also follow what these veterinary recommendations suggest.
00:20:43.499 --> 00:20:45.139
Steve Dale: There are so many good diets out there.
00:20:45.139 --> 00:20:50.699
Steve Dale: What's more, and now I will get myself into trouble with some of yours, of viewers.
00:20:50.699 --> 00:20:51.499
Linda Hall: Jump on in.
00:20:51.499 --> 00:20:52.619
Linda Hall: The love is warm.
00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:53.579
Linda Hall: Come on.
00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:54.139
Steve Dale: Yeah.
00:20:54.139 --> 00:20:58.239
Steve Dale: There really has been truly, truly, truly, truly.
00:20:58.239 --> 00:21:13.639
Steve Dale: And then I'll tell you something surprising, but there really has been no evidence, scientifically, in a peer-reviewed study, in a journal, anywhere, as far as I know, that there is a benefit to feeding roc.
00:21:13.639 --> 00:21:18.339
Steve Dale: And I understand for cats more than dogs, how that might make sense.
00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.359
Steve Dale: So, it turns out, you may be able to cook your raw food.
00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:33.379
Steve Dale: So if you cook it, and if it's at a high enough temperature, like if you cook anything else, you know, the highly pathogenic avian influenza virus is a virus.
00:21:33.379 --> 00:21:35.199
Steve Dale: So you'll kill the virus.
00:21:35.199 --> 00:21:35.779
Linda Hall: Okay.
00:21:35.779 --> 00:21:36.379
Linda Hall: Okay.
00:21:36.379 --> 00:21:36.919
Linda Hall: Okay.
00:21:36.919 --> 00:21:38.079
Linda Hall: That'll, yeah.
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:47.379
Steve Dale: And no one really has said, to anyone's knowledge, that you can't cook raw food and take nutrients away from it.
00:21:47.739 --> 00:21:52.899
Linda Hall: And I just read today, because I used to get a brand that comes in these little frozen logs.
00:21:52.899 --> 00:21:54.439
Linda Hall: I just, I kept forgetting to thaw them.
00:21:54.439 --> 00:21:56.879
Linda Hall: I can't remember to thaw the chicken for dinner tonight.
00:21:56.879 --> 00:21:59.039
Linda Hall: I'm not going to remember to thaw my cat's food.
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:00.459
Linda Hall: So I gave up on that.
00:22:00.459 --> 00:22:08.419
Linda Hall: But I read, I thought, oh, maybe with it being frozen, nah, them little suckers can stay frozen forever, and they still come back.
00:22:08.419 --> 00:22:11.899
Linda Hall: They're like in some frozen coma, and they come back.
00:22:11.899 --> 00:22:15.879
Linda Hall: So just because you freeze it, don't think that gets you out of hot water, according to what I read.
00:22:16.299 --> 00:22:21.499
Steve Dale: No, no, freezing it can be helpful, but it doesn't solve the problem, necessarily.
00:22:21.499 --> 00:22:23.059
Steve Dale: It can, it cannot.
00:22:23.059 --> 00:22:25.119
Steve Dale: Freeze drying, same thing.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.319
Steve Dale: You know, it may or may not.
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:33.939
Steve Dale: However, heating it up, and I don't remember the temperature number and the amount of minutes it needs to be at that temperature.
00:22:33.939 --> 00:22:35.359
Steve Dale: I'm sorry, I don't.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.159
Steve Dale: But heating it up, Scott Weiss, Dr.
00:22:38.159 --> 00:22:42.199
Steve Dale: Scott Weiss has that in one of his blogs called Worms and Germs.
00:22:42.199 --> 00:22:45.099
Steve Dale: And he has a post where he indicates what that temperature is.
00:22:45.679 --> 00:22:47.699
Steve Dale: I'll take his word for it.
00:22:47.699 --> 00:22:51.899
Steve Dale: But I'm not a nutritionist and I'm certainly not a dietician.
00:22:51.899 --> 00:22:53.319
Steve Dale: So I just don't.
00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:54.299
Linda Hall: I know, I know.
00:22:54.299 --> 00:23:00.459
Linda Hall: But you've got your thumb on the pulse of all this stuff going on, which is why I reached out to you to say, what do you know?
00:23:00.459 --> 00:23:02.879
Steve Dale: And the point is that you can cook it.
00:23:02.879 --> 00:23:10.579
Steve Dale: So if you are determined to feed raw food, go ahead and do it, I suppose, but cook it first, at least for now.
00:23:10.579 --> 00:23:11.979
Linda Hall: Which I can tell, I hear them.
00:23:11.979 --> 00:23:12.779
Linda Hall: Do you hear them?
00:23:12.779 --> 00:23:14.719
Linda Hall: That kills the nutrients.
00:23:15.199 --> 00:23:16.799
Steve Dale: And I don't know that that's true.
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:22.179
Linda Hall: Okay, I don't know if it's true or not, but even if it kills it a little, it's kind of like the joke I used to give about having a diet coke with dinner.
00:23:22.179 --> 00:23:23.999
Linda Hall: I don't drink soda anymore, but I used to have a diet coke.
00:23:23.999 --> 00:23:25.679
Linda Hall: I was a big diet coke fan.
00:23:25.679 --> 00:23:28.699
Linda Hall: And it's like, are you really going to eat chocolate cake with your diet coke?
00:23:28.699 --> 00:23:29.379
Linda Hall: Yeah, I am.
00:23:29.379 --> 00:23:32.599
Linda Hall: Would you rather I have 12,000 calories or 10,000 calories, right?
00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:34.979
Linda Hall: Like, you know, let's err on the side of caution.
00:23:34.979 --> 00:23:35.879
Linda Hall: Let's do what we got to do.
00:23:35.879 --> 00:23:40.459
Linda Hall: If it's not as healthy, but I'm eliminating the risk of my cats getting sick?
00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:41.359
Steve Dale: 12 of them?
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:43.439
Steve Dale: And maybe you too getting sick.
00:23:43.439 --> 00:23:46.759
Steve Dale: And the other option is just moist cat food.
00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:47.579
Linda Hall: That's what I do.
00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:49.579
Linda Hall: I went, you know, I just want to look for the best.
00:23:49.579 --> 00:23:52.399
Linda Hall: I have seen a lot of positive results since switching to raw.
00:23:52.399 --> 00:23:57.839
Linda Hall: However, my raw is also infused with probiotics and prebiotics and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:23:57.839 --> 00:23:59.059
Linda Hall: That may be what the difference was.
00:23:59.059 --> 00:24:00.379
Linda Hall: It may not be because it's raw.
00:24:00.659 --> 00:24:01.079
Linda Hall: Exactly.
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:02.059
Linda Hall: I don't know.
00:24:02.059 --> 00:24:04.319
Steve Dale: And there's other ways to get probiotics.
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:05.179
Linda Hall: Absolutely.
00:24:05.179 --> 00:24:07.779
Steve Dale: Urina fortiflora comes to mind, right?
00:24:07.779 --> 00:24:09.799
Steve Dale: You know, so there's and there's other products as well.
00:24:10.259 --> 00:24:14.599
Linda Hall: That's two crazy cat ladies, you know, we love RJ and Adri, and they sell a wonderful probiotic.
00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:16.519
Linda Hall: Yeah, there's all kinds of them out there that are good.
00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:21.699
Steve Dale: Yeah, I don't know what the crazy cat ladies sell, but I know about the companies I know about, the big ones.
00:24:21.699 --> 00:24:22.619
Linda Hall: All kinds of good stuff.
00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:24.759
Linda Hall: Yeah, they're all about that holistic wellness.
00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:26.379
Linda Hall: Yeah, I have like a drawer full.
00:24:26.419 --> 00:24:34.139
Linda Hall: Yeah, that's why actually that freeze dried cat food is in this drawer because I have a cat cabinet out there that has all the litter and food and everything in it.
00:24:34.139 --> 00:24:38.859
Linda Hall: And I took it out so no one would accidentally feed them because you just don't, I just don't want to take the chance.
00:24:38.999 --> 00:24:40.299
Linda Hall: I just, and I loved this.
00:24:40.299 --> 00:24:45.299
Linda Hall: I used to eat toppers, I used to eat snacks, I used to eat all the time, but I'm not taking a chance.
00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:49.059
Linda Hall: Now, when I was looking into this, the proper, what is it?
00:24:49.059 --> 00:24:51.939
Linda Hall: H5N1 is the proper term for this strain.
00:24:51.939 --> 00:24:53.059
Rita Reimers: Right, right, right, right.
00:24:53.059 --> 00:24:54.719
Steve Dale: So thank you for bringing that up again.
00:24:54.759 --> 00:24:58.199
Steve Dale: Well, so I asked this question, others have too.
00:24:58.199 --> 00:25:10.159
Steve Dale: Could there be cross protection against either human flu or dog flu if we vaccinate cats because there's no vaccine for cats for an influenza virus?
00:25:10.159 --> 00:25:11.979
Steve Dale: There's never been a need to.
00:25:11.979 --> 00:25:23.339
Steve Dale: So is there cross protection and it's unlikely there is much, if any, cross protection because those numbers and letters are different in our flu or the flus that dogs get.
00:25:23.919 --> 00:25:26.279
Steve Dale: So it's unlikely that that would be.
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:26.979
Linda Hall: It wouldn't hit, right?
00:25:26.979 --> 00:25:28.279
Linda Hall: It needs to be made specific.
00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:28.779
Steve Dale: Yeah.
00:25:28.959 --> 00:25:35.399
Steve Dale: And beside, I don't think you'd want to vaccinate without the vaccine being tested and approved.
00:25:35.399 --> 00:25:36.899
Linda Hall: Well, you're not wrong about that.
00:25:36.899 --> 00:25:37.459
Linda Hall: You're not right.
00:25:37.459 --> 00:25:39.339
Linda Hall: It really depends on how life threatening.
00:25:39.339 --> 00:25:42.059
Steve Dale: But do you know what people have done?
00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:43.679
Steve Dale: I just found out about this.
00:25:43.679 --> 00:25:45.959
Steve Dale: It's really expensive to get.
00:25:45.959 --> 00:25:47.079
Steve Dale: What's the other drug?
00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:48.899
Steve Dale: Wigovia is one.
00:25:48.959 --> 00:25:50.359
Linda Hall: Oh, yeah.
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:51.799
Steve Dale: The other weight loss drug.
00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:53.679
Linda Hall: I could have told you and then you would have said it.
00:25:53.679 --> 00:25:55.179
Linda Hall: Now I'm like, ah.
00:25:55.179 --> 00:25:57.359
Steve Dale: Well, we see all the commercials all the time, right?
00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:58.399
Linda Hall: Dermaglutides.
00:25:58.519 --> 00:25:59.499
Linda Hall: I know what you're talking about.
00:25:59.499 --> 00:26:00.619
Steve Dale: Yeah, that's what they are.
00:26:00.619 --> 00:26:02.079
Steve Dale: That's the name.
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:02.919
Linda Hall: There's a popular one.
00:26:02.919 --> 00:26:03.519
Linda Hall: It's not coming to me.
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:05.859
Linda Hall: Everybody who's listening to this is screaming at us right now.
00:26:05.859 --> 00:26:07.159
Steve Dale: I know.
00:26:07.159 --> 00:26:07.819
Steve Dale: I know.
00:26:07.819 --> 00:26:09.639
Steve Dale: I can't believe.
00:26:09.639 --> 00:26:13.499
Steve Dale: But I just wrote about this and you kind of bring it up in a way.
00:26:13.499 --> 00:26:14.479
Steve Dale: Oh, Zempik.
00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:17.499
Steve Dale: And I'm about to give you some interesting news actually.
00:26:17.499 --> 00:26:17.699
Steve Dale: Okay.
00:26:18.299 --> 00:26:21.119
Steve Dale: So, but this is like, don't do this.
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:27.639
Steve Dale: So people, El Zempik and Wigovie, do have very clever commercials, but they are expensive, right?
00:26:27.639 --> 00:26:28.179
Steve Dale: Oh, yeah.
00:26:28.179 --> 00:26:40.339
Steve Dale: So people though, have purchased them for themselves, but think, okay, I've got an overweight cat, or not do it on purpose, but get confused with the cat's diabetic injection.
00:26:40.339 --> 00:26:48.699
Steve Dale: So instead of injecting the Wigovie into them or El Zempik, they inject a cat diabetes product.
00:26:48.699 --> 00:26:50.239
Linda Hall: And what happens to the cat?
00:26:50.239 --> 00:26:53.099
Steve Dale: And then vice versa, the cat gets very sick.
00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:53.839
Linda Hall: No doubt.
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:56.099
Linda Hall: I mean, that's not, oh my God.
00:26:56.099 --> 00:26:57.359
Steve Dale: And that has happened.
00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:59.459
Steve Dale: So don't do that.
00:26:59.459 --> 00:27:05.099
Steve Dale: Be very, very careful, and certainly don't do it on purpose, because people have actually done that.
00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:06.819
Steve Dale: Now here's the news.
00:27:06.819 --> 00:27:11.499
Steve Dale: There's going to be at some point in time, are you ready?
00:27:11.499 --> 00:27:11.639
Steve Dale: Yeah.
00:27:12.439 --> 00:27:16.979
Steve Dale: You likely know that 61% of cats are overweight or obese.
00:27:16.979 --> 00:27:20.599
Steve Dale: By the year 2027, I'm making up that year.
00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:21.919
Steve Dale: Could be sooner.
00:27:21.919 --> 00:27:23.319
Steve Dale: It could be a little later.
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:27.399
Steve Dale: We will have a Wigovie or Ozempic for pets.
00:27:27.399 --> 00:27:29.659
Steve Dale: For cats first, by the way.
00:27:29.659 --> 00:27:36.339
Steve Dale: Now what I can assure you is that these products will be specifically for pets and approved by the FDA.
00:27:36.339 --> 00:27:41.639
Steve Dale: What I cannot assure you is that the commercials will be as clever, catchy.
00:27:41.639 --> 00:27:48.059
Linda Hall: You know, people are going to be like, it's cheaper than paying the people one and they're going to be shooting themselves off with this cat for it.
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:51.719
Steve Dale: Probably, and that's actually going to be a concern of the FDA.
00:27:51.719 --> 00:27:55.259
Steve Dale: So that's what you just said could be the reason.
00:27:55.259 --> 00:28:01.159
Steve Dale: If there's a reason why it doesn't happen, it's not technology, it's that concern.
00:28:01.399 --> 00:28:05.519
Linda Hall: I'll tell you, I know cat obesity was not our concern, but we need to come back to cat obesity.
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:09.139
Linda Hall: One of Rita's cats, Gigi, I call her the manatee.
00:28:09.139 --> 00:28:13.719
Linda Hall: One time I went to visit Rita and she comes waddling out and I just lost it.
00:28:13.719 --> 00:28:14.979
Linda Hall: I was like, she looks like a manatee.
00:28:14.979 --> 00:28:17.459
Linda Hall: I think I appended her, I apologize later.
00:28:17.459 --> 00:28:27.079
Linda Hall: But she's huge and she has been doctor checked up and down and Rita regulates and she's huge and there's just no explanation for this.
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:35.579
Steve Dale: So I happen to be on the board, you may not know this, I'm on the board of directors of the Association for Pet Obesity Prevention, aside from some of the other boards I'm on.
00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:52.979
Steve Dale: But the new thinking that we have is yes, absolutely overweight obese cats can be at least in part, sometimes in great part, sometimes though not no part at all, because people are feeding table food or too much food.
00:28:52.979 --> 00:28:58.739
Steve Dale: So that may be happening like we've always said, but it may never happen.
00:28:58.739 --> 00:29:00.779
Steve Dale: And yet the cat may be overweight or obese.
00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:00.939
Steve Dale: Why?
00:29:01.719 --> 00:29:10.839
Steve Dale: So we don't know the answer, in part it's genetics plays a role more than we thought perhaps, but we actually don't know the answer to that.
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:20.439
Steve Dale: And the thing that the association where I'm on the board feels, and we all feel this way, that we have to stop the blame game.
00:29:20.439 --> 00:29:25.459
Steve Dale: So it used to be, now, educating people not to feed their cats too much, fine.
00:29:25.459 --> 00:29:31.639
Steve Dale: Educating how to feed as much as what to feed, oh, I've been all about that for years.
00:29:31.639 --> 00:29:41.399
Steve Dale: However, to stop pointing the finger, because a lot of people, if not, maybe even the majority, we don't know, are actually doing it all right.
00:29:41.399 --> 00:29:43.319
Steve Dale: They're doing everything right.
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:45.719
Linda Hall: If you look to my cats, you'd be like, that one's really skinny.
00:29:45.719 --> 00:29:47.379
Linda Hall: Oh, these five are normal size.
00:29:47.379 --> 00:29:48.919
Linda Hall: Oh, these two are pretty chunky.
00:29:48.919 --> 00:29:49.999
Linda Hall: They're all doing the same thing.
00:29:49.999 --> 00:29:52.079
Linda Hall: Believe me, I do not feed my cats table scraps.
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:54.699
Linda Hall: No one wants to open that Pandora's box, okay?
00:29:54.699 --> 00:29:56.939
Linda Hall: You feed them one thing off your plate, and they're like, hi mom.
00:29:57.119 --> 00:29:59.499
Linda Hall: Every time you eat, and there's 12 of them.
00:30:00.819 --> 00:30:06.479
Linda Hall: I've been on a diet the last few months, but I'm really not sure I want to go that extreme.
00:30:07.139 --> 00:30:09.359
Steve Dale: So what can we do to make a difference?
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:17.759
Steve Dale: And so we're beginning to understand all of this better, but in the process, and we educate veterinarians, that's part of the mission of this organization.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:27.359
Steve Dale: So we are telling veterinarians, and it'll take a year or two or three for this to happen fully, to change their communication that they have with clients.
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:35.739
Steve Dale: First of all, it's a difficult thing to bring up with clients, if you're a veterinary professional, because frankly, that client looking right back at you may be overweight or obese as well.
00:30:35.739 --> 00:30:37.039
Steve Dale: So that's one issue.
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.119
Steve Dale: If not, you know everybody has someone in their family that is.
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:43.159
Steve Dale: So it touches people as well, you know?
00:30:43.159 --> 00:30:51.479
Steve Dale: And also, I think that I could talk till I am blue or you're blue in the face about why it's a problem.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:54.959
Steve Dale: But I think most cat owners actually know that it's a problem.
00:30:54.959 --> 00:30:55.219
Steve Dale: I do.
00:30:55.219 --> 00:31:02.119
Linda Hall: And I think it's always important to unpack where something came from and those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, right?
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:04.299
Linda Hall: That is the kind of my mantra.
00:31:04.299 --> 00:31:07.039
Linda Hall: But we got to fix the problem, right?
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:08.299
Steve Dale: Yeah, we do.
00:31:08.299 --> 00:31:17.239
Linda Hall: We are over time, but I'm going to ask you, will you please come back and you please come back and talk about our pets and obesity because this is, yeah, we all need this so bad.
00:31:17.239 --> 00:31:18.439
Linda Hall: I'll try to get Rita.
00:31:18.439 --> 00:31:18.959
Steve Dale: Yeah.
00:31:19.019 --> 00:31:20.119
Linda Hall: I knew that.
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:21.119
Linda Hall: I knew that was coming.
00:31:21.159 --> 00:31:22.239
Linda Hall: I paid for two of you.
00:31:22.239 --> 00:31:22.679
Linda Hall: You got it.
00:31:22.679 --> 00:31:22.999
Linda Hall: That's right.
00:31:22.999 --> 00:31:23.879
Linda Hall: I want two of you.
00:31:23.879 --> 00:31:24.519
Linda Hall: That's right.
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:25.179
Linda Hall: You got it.
00:31:25.179 --> 00:31:25.899
Linda Hall: You got it.
00:31:25.899 --> 00:31:28.639
Linda Hall: Well, before we wrap up, I just want to leave us some action items.
00:31:28.639 --> 00:31:31.879
Linda Hall: So A, we're not bashing anyone.
00:31:31.879 --> 00:31:34.439
Linda Hall: All y'all that are really trying to help our cats are great.
00:31:34.439 --> 00:31:35.819
Linda Hall: Thank you for your service.
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:37.399
Linda Hall: But something has happened.
00:31:37.399 --> 00:31:38.659
Linda Hall: Some food has gotten this.
00:31:38.659 --> 00:31:39.859
Linda Hall: It is a thing.
00:31:39.859 --> 00:31:42.579
Linda Hall: We don't know how big or how whatever.
00:31:42.579 --> 00:31:48.319
Linda Hall: But my personal take is air on the side of caution and don't give them something that may be a problem until I get this worked out.
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:51.039
Linda Hall: Would that be fitting with your line?
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:51.919
Steve Dale: Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:51.919 --> 00:31:54.139
Steve Dale: It's an ever evolving situation.
00:31:54.139 --> 00:31:55.379
Steve Dale: I'll be reporting on it.
00:31:55.379 --> 00:31:58.519
Steve Dale: My website is stevedale.tv or-
00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:01.059
Rita Reimers: stevedale.tv.
00:32:01.059 --> 00:32:02.199
Steve Dale: Fancy.
00:32:02.199 --> 00:32:03.259
Steve Dale: Yeah.
00:32:03.259 --> 00:32:07.519
Steve Dale: Like you, I host podcasts and all the rest, as well as write stories.
00:32:08.299 --> 00:32:14.099
Steve Dale: The American Veterinary Medical Association, as always, doing a great job of keeping up with us.
00:32:15.619 --> 00:32:17.539
Steve Dale: avma.org is their website.
00:32:17.679 --> 00:32:22.719
Steve Dale: So wherever you want to go, go to a trusted source, Worms and Germs, I mentioned, Dr.
00:32:22.719 --> 00:32:23.719
Steve Dale: Scott Weiss.
00:32:23.719 --> 00:32:32.179
Steve Dale: I know him, he has no idea in promoting his site, but he is in Canada, and he's one of the leading infectious disease experts on the planet.
00:32:32.419 --> 00:32:32.919
Linda Hall: Amazing.
00:32:32.919 --> 00:32:37.699
Steve Dale: He happens to have a blog that's written for professionals, but you can go there too.
00:32:37.699 --> 00:32:39.119
Linda Hall: I encourage everybody to check all this out.
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:39.959
Linda Hall: I do.
00:32:39.959 --> 00:32:44.159
Linda Hall: I was looking into this one, like, okay, how's Dave?
00:32:44.159 --> 00:32:44.759
Linda Hall: What's the problem?
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:53.059
Linda Hall: And another site and another site and another site, because people have different opinions, and this one says, new cases just getting, you know, you got to, stuff is evolving all of the time.
00:32:53.059 --> 00:32:57.219
Linda Hall: And this one may have this great information, this one may have something to add to that.
00:32:57.219 --> 00:32:59.759
Linda Hall: So, honestly, hit them all up.
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.399
Linda Hall: Go to avma.org, go to stevedale.tv.
00:33:03.399 --> 00:33:11.819
Linda Hall: And really honestly, don't listen, because it's going to sound like I'm trying to blow up your skirts here, but Steve really does have his finger on the pulse of everything going on with cats and dogs.
00:33:11.879 --> 00:33:18.799
Linda Hall: So if you have questions, he really is an amazing resource, which is why when we were discussing it, we said, let's see what Steve knows.
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:20.359
Linda Hall: Thank you.
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.439
Steve Dale: I don't generally wear a skirt, but nevertheless, I thank you.
00:33:23.439 --> 00:33:27.059
Linda Hall: Yeah, well, you know, maybe next year's Cat Expo, I'll see you at a skirt.
00:33:27.059 --> 00:33:28.659
Steve Dale: I don't think so, but that's okay.
00:33:28.659 --> 00:33:30.619
Linda Hall: Thank you, thank you, thank you for coming back.
00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:31.659
Linda Hall: Thank you.
00:33:31.659 --> 00:33:36.799
Linda Hall: I know we don't have all the information, but you've at least given us some ground to tread on and know where we're walking.
00:33:36.879 --> 00:33:37.999
Announcer: So, okay.
00:33:37.999 --> 00:33:47.019
Linda Hall: And my forever gratitude and Rita's too, to Mark Winter, our amazing producer, who is pretty much everything and does such a great job with us.
00:33:47.019 --> 00:33:49.639
Linda Hall: And Rita, we missed you, especially Steve.
00:33:49.639 --> 00:33:51.179
Linda Hall: He really missed you.
00:33:51.179 --> 00:33:53.099
Linda Hall: All right, everybody have a great time.
00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:54.599
Linda Hall: We'll see you next time.
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:57.479
Linda Hall: And remember, every day is Caturday.
00:33:57.479 --> 00:34:03.499
Announcer: Let's talk pets, every week on demand, only on petliferadio.com.