Animal Writes

Listen to Episode #211 Now:

    

BIO:

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets.

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Tim Link: Welcome to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.

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Tim Link: This is your host, Tim Link, and I'm so glad you're joining us today.

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Tim Link: I'm super excited about the show today.

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Tim Link: The author and writer is fantastic, and he's doing a deep dive into the whole dog world.

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Tim Link: Of course, we're talking about author Tommy Tomlinson in his latest book, Dogland, The Passion, Glory and Lots of Slobber at the Westminster Dog Show.

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Tim Link: So we'll talk to Tommy a little bit about the book, talk about writing in general, and then we'll delve into, obviously, the whole world of dogs, as we love to do on this show.

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Tim Link: So everybody hang tight.

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Tim Link: We'll come back right after this commercial break.

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Tim Link: You're listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.

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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.

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Tim Link: Welcome back to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.

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Tim Link: Joining me for this episode is the author of The Elephant in the Room.

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Tim Link: He's also a Pulitzer Prize nominee for his writing and commentary.

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Tim Link: He's a 2005 finalist for that.

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Tim Link: Obviously a long time writer for the Charlotte Observer.

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Tim Link: He's written for Sports Illustrated, Forbes, Esquire.

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Tim Link: He knows it all about writing.

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Tim Link: In this particular time, he's coming to us about the whole world of dogs and dog shows.

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Tim Link: The book's called Dogland, Passion, Glory and Lots of Slobber at the Westminster Dog Show.

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Tim Link: Of course, we're talking about our friend Tommy Tomlinson.

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Tim Link: Tommy, welcome to the show.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Hey Tim, I'm thrilled to be here.

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Tim Link: Oh, we're excited.

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Tim Link: I was super excited to hear about the book because being a dog lover, you've got to keep track of the Westminster Dog Show.

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Tim Link: I have a lot of clients that participate in the whole dog show world as well as participate in the Westminster Dog Show.

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Tim Link: But to get in behind the scenes and really find out what it's all about, is the good, the bad, the ugly, hopefully none of the bad or the ugly, mostly good and slobbers.

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Tim Link: But I love the topic.

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Tim Link: So tell us a little bit about Dogland, what it's about, how it came to be, and then we'll sort of take it from there.

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Tommy Tomlinson: It came to be kind of simply, I was at home one night watching one of the dog shows, which I had done for years and years.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And I just had this thought, are those dogs happy?

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Tommy Tomlinson: Because they live such a different life than your normal household pet.

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Tommy Tomlinson: As you probably know, a show dog is picked, sometimes at the time they're just a few weeks old and moved into that show world where they eat differently, they're trained differently, they travel differently, and it culminates in these shows that they're go to pretty much every weekend from the time they're very young.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so I just wondered whether that life was a life that those dogs tended to enjoy.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And the more I thought about it, the more I thought, well, how about regular dogs, just household pets, do they enjoy their lives too?

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Tommy Tomlinson: Because they don't really have a choice and who they end up with or what they have for breakfast every day and all those sorts of things.

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Tommy Tomlinson: They certainly seem happy, but are they really?

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Tommy Tomlinson: And what does science know about this stuff?

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Tommy Tomlinson: And what are sort of the theories?

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so it's sort of a two-part book.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Part of it is looking, kind of take an in-depth look at Westminster, especially at kind of the dog show world, but using that as kind of a gateway to think about dogs and dogs and their people and that long, long relationship in sort of a bigger, more universal way.

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Tim Link: Yeah, and when you took on the topic, one of the things that hit me right off the top was, okay, how do you get into this exclusive world?

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Tim Link: Is it a matter of putting on a press badge and you just show up and put a microphone in somebody's face?

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Tim Link: Or do you have some nuances to actually get in there?

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Tim Link: Cause this is, I mean, especially when we're talking about the Westminster Dog Show, this is serious business when it comes down to it.

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Tommy Tomlinson: It is.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And Westminster was the first show I ever went to, which is like your first football game being a Super Bowl.

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Tim Link: Yeah, I was gonna say.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so I knew very little about what I was doing when I first walked in there.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And some people were not particularly responsive.

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Tommy Tomlinson: I mean, the Dog Show world, like any subculture can be kind of wary of outsiders.

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Tommy Tomlinson: There had been that movie Best in Show, which a lot of people in the Dog Show world didn't appreciate.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so I think every time somebody from the outside comes walking in, there's a little bit of a flinch in that world.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Like, what is this person gonna say about us?

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so it took a while to sort of work my way in.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And it took talking to quite a few people before I found some people who were comfortable talking about me and could see the Dog Show world from the inside and the outside.

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Tommy Tomlinson: They love dogs, love dog shows, but then they could also step back and detach from it a little bit and see sort of the humor in it, the absurdity in it sometimes, and the things that other people wonder about when they go to Dog Shows, they were able to kind of talk about those things in layman's terms.

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Tim Link: Yeah, it was always fascinating to me because though it seems very serious and very staunch, and I want to talk to you about what you really found out about the dogs behind the scenes, but I would imagine from an outsider looking into this, it would be almost like prepping a horse for the Kentucky Derby.

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Tim Link: What's the horses like prepping and getting him or her ready for the race, and then what happens afterwards?

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Tim Link: Or even like if you have a pageant participant or a young actor or actress wanting to come up and you're raising them, they're your child at home, but on the other hand, they get to put on a show when they go on the stage.

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Tim Link: How did you find it as far as, I know the dogs have separate handlers in most cases, but how did you find that separation of when the, first of all, the human companions knew to put on a show with their dogs, and then what happens afterwards?

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Tim Link: And then how did the dogs respond?

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Tim Link: Was there any difference on how they acted during the show and after the show?

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Tommy Tomlinson: Well, I think the dogs do understand that when they're in the show ring, it's a performance.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And you know, like a dog would do a trick, it's kind of a trick in a way, you know, to do this stack, which is the pose they have to do for the judges and the trot around the ring.

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Tommy Tomlinson: You know, they're doing something that their handlers have trained them to do and now are asking them to do.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And it's sort of a performance like, you know, fetching a tennis ball or something like that.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so I think when they're inside the ring and outside the ring, they can be very different.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Although a lot of the dogs I saw were extremely disciplined and attentive to their handlers, both inside and outside the ring.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Others I thought saw a little bit of separation and were a little more goofy, you know, when they weren't in the ring showing off basically.

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Tommy Tomlinson: The handlers, I think by and large, try to treat those dogs as normal dogs as often as they can.

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Tommy Tomlinson: You know, they take them out for walks, they run them around, they play with them, they sort of roll on the floor with them, when, you know, when they're in between events and all that sort of thing.

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Tommy Tomlinson: But when it's showtime, obviously the dog not only has to be trained to perform, but it has to be groomed really carefully, you know, look as good as possible.

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Tommy Tomlinson: The nutrition has to be really on point so that the dog, you know, looks its very best.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so there are moments when they're clearly being a show dog.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And I think for most of them moments when they're clearly also being a regular dog.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And sometimes it was easy to split the differences, sometimes maybe not so much.

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Tim Link: Yeah, and curious about the dogs and how they handle it.

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Tim Link: Let's say after the show, as you just mentioned, but as I mentioned, you know, they have often have a separate handler compared to their what I call the human companion.

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Tim Link: I always had this vision that all three of them were standing in a room.

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Tim Link: The dog was like, you know, moving its head back and forth trying to decide, okay, who do I actually listen to in this case?

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Tommy Tomlinson: Right.

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Tommy Tomlinson: So most dogs, especially the level of something like a Westminster, the person who handles the dog, the person you see in the ring with the dog at the show does not own the dog.

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Tommy Tomlinson: So the dogs have owners that basically put these dogs in the hands of a handler to take it around the country and take it to shows.

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Tommy Tomlinson: There are owner handlers who do both jobs.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And sometimes they make it as far as the finals of Westminster, but by and large in the very top show dogs usually have a separate handler.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And I talked to some of the owners and handlers about all this, about that relationship.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And the owners did a couple of things that thought were interesting.

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Tommy Tomlinson: One was that it's sort of like you have a kid who may be, let's say gifted in tennis.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And in your town, wherever you live, they've beaten all the other eight year olds at tennis.

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Tommy Tomlinson: So maybe you send that kid off to a tennis academy to see if they really are that good and might be a professional one day.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Well, that means they're not with you anymore and that you might be, they might be gone for years, but you're investing in something that's possibly greater.

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Tommy Tomlinson: So that's one explanation.

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Tommy Tomlinson: The other one I thought was pretty interesting was that to the owner, a beautiful show dog is like a piece of art.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And the best way to show that piece of art is to put it in the hands of somebody who knows what they're doing, can show it at its best angles, can make it look as beautiful as possible.

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Tommy Tomlinson: So when it's in the ring, when it's in front of all these other people who know who that dog belongs to, that its artsiness, its beauty, its inherent beauty is enhanced as much as it can be.

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Tommy Tomlinson: I think those are both pretty interesting ways to think about it.

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Tim Link: Absolutely, that's a wonderful analogy.

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Tim Link: I mean, I hadn't thought of it that way.

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Tim Link: And one thing you had hit on that you had, one of the words that caught my attention when you were speaking about the first part of that is the investment, the investment part of it.

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Tim Link: Now I don't want to get into too much of the nitty gritty behind that, but we have to realize there's a huge investment to go to these shows and to show these shows and that handler charges and grooming, et cetera, et cetera.

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Tim Link: And then what about the back in return of the investment?

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Tim Link: I'm assuming it's more than just trophies and ribbons that you and your dog can sit around and reminisce.

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Tim Link: I'm sure there's breeding and the higher up in the rankings your dog goes, the more your investment gets returned.

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Tim Link: Would that be a fair analogy or a fair statement?

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Tommy Tomlinson: There's some of that, but it's not nearly as lucrative as say horse racing.

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Tommy Tomlinson: So like you mentioned the Kentucky Derby a while ago, the Kentucky Derby winner, that owner will make millions of dollars in stud fees and breeding and all that sort of thing for years.

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Tommy Tomlinson: The owner of a champion show dog, first of all, to win the show itself, when you win Westminster, there's no prize money.

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Tommy Tomlinson: You get a couple of trophies and a ribbon and that's it.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And in fact, at smaller dog shows, the prize is usually a ribbon and a sack of dog food.

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Tommy Tomlinson: So there's not, you're not gonna get rich just by winning dog shows.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And you're actually not also not gonna get rich breeding out your dogs or stud fees or breeding fees.

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Tommy Tomlinson: There is money in that.

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Tommy Tomlinson: I'm not gonna completely diminish it.

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Tommy Tomlinson: But I think most owners of top show dogs, they spend six figures a year sending those dogs around the country to all the big shows.

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Tommy Tomlinson: The payback for that is not nearly as much.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Most of those folks go in the red and they consider it, like sending your kid to college, you're gonna spend some money and what you're gonna get back is intangible.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Maybe it's something lucrative.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Maybe it's not, but probably not.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so I think people overestimate how much money these folks make.

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Tommy Tomlinson: The handlers make money.

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Tommy Tomlinson: The people who put on the shows make money, but the owners generally do not.

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Tim Link: And just like sending your kid off to college, they often return back home with you at the end of the day.

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Tim Link: So, well, I think it's a great clarification.

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Tim Link: That's why I sort of led you down that path.

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Tim Link: Cause I knew it was much different than it is in say horse racing, as we've been talking about that analogy, but it really is more of what I've seen is it's a passion, it's a love.

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Tim Link: You've got a animal that you're, a dog that you're extremely proud of.

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Tim Link: You think there's a chance to let other people enjoy what your dog can do and how it looks.

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Tim Link: And that is reward enough in most cases.

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Tommy Tomlinson: I think it is.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And I think that's the way most owners look at it.

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Tommy Tomlinson: There is obviously people have a competitive nature.

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Tommy Tomlinson: They want their dog to win.

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Tommy Tomlinson: There's some pride in that.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And people push pretty hard to have winning show dogs.

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Tommy Tomlinson: But I think in the end, it is about more than the rewards, the trophies, the ribbons, the money, even.

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Tommy Tomlinson: The payback for that, the return on investment is much more intangible things.

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Tim Link: Now, when we talk about most, if not all, of the human companions and even their handlers have a particular breed that they're ultimately fond of.

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Tim Link: And we've seen these big shows.

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Tim Link: It's almost, maybe it's not as extreme as when we see the 101 Dalmatians.

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Tim Link: Now everybody has to have a Dalmatian.

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Tim Link: But we do see that with shows like Westminster that, you know, if a particular breed wins, all of a sudden everybody wants that particular breed.

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Tim Link: Is, did you find that that is sort of a badge of honor, sort of an excitement, because I'm a Schnauzer guy, for instance, I love Schnauzer.

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Tim Link: So if a Schnauzer wins, I'm gonna be proud, even though it may not be my Schnauzer there.

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Tim Link: Or let's just say it won't be my Schnauzer there.

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Tim Link: But do you see a pride in that, knowing that everybody's gonna go out and get a Schnauzer now?

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Tim Link: Or is it more of the fact that it's an isolated type thing where they're proud of their dog?

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Tim Link: And if people happen to be excited about that particular breed, then that's great.

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Tommy Tomlinson: I think it is an isolated thing.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And I think it's actually kind of funny.

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Tommy Tomlinson: I think what show dog people consider to be a great dog is very different than what regular people think to be a great dog.

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Tommy Tomlinson: A good example is the first Westminster I went to back in 2020, and the final round, the other seven dogs make it to the best in show round.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And one of the dogs was a golden retriever named Daniel.

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Tommy Tomlinson: This absolutely perfect specimen of a golden retriever.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And that's when the show was at Madison Square Garden the last time they had it there, although it's actually getting ready to go back there next year.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Anyway, the crowd at Madison Square Garden cheered and stomped their feet and loved this golden retriever.

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Tommy Tomlinson: There was another dog in that final seven, a poodle who looked just like, you know, your quintessential poodle with the funky haircut and all that sort of thing.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And the fans were not nearly as much into the poodle.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Well, the poodle won Best in Show.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And the crowd actually booed a little bit when the poodle won.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so they weren't going out to get a poodle the next day.

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Tommy Tomlinson: But the funny thing was I was on the floor of Madison Square Garden with all the dog people and all the dog people instantly said the right dog won.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so I think that the aesthetics that dog people consider to be pleasing and important and valid and the sort of the characteristics they think of as a champion are often very different than what you and I might think of.

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Tommy Tomlinson: That doesn't mean, I think you're right, that occasionally when a particular dog wins, people do go out and buy that dog.

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Tommy Tomlinson: But I think more than that, now people buy dogs or acquire dogs for more lifestyle type reasons.

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Tommy Tomlinson: Like for example, the French Bulldog, deep thrown the lab the last two years as the most popular dog in America.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And I think the main reason for that is that it's portable.

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Tommy Tomlinson: You know, people could take it from an apartment to a house, to a condo.

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Tommy Tomlinson: You can move a lot.

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Tommy Tomlinson: The Frenchie doesn't need to be, have a lot of yard space to neatly be walked a lot.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And that's certainly as a dog, you can just, if you're young and mobile, you can pick up and take it with you pretty easily.

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Tommy Tomlinson: That's one reason I think that the Frenchies are so popular.

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Tommy Tomlinson: And so I think there are a lot of lifestyle reasons why a particular dog sort of surges up the rankings.

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Tim Link: Very interesting.

00:17:29.340 --> 00:17:29.860
Tim Link: Good point.

00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:30.360
Tim Link: Good point.

00:17:30.740 --> 00:17:33.900
Tim Link: Early on, you talked about, okay, well, are these dogs happy?

00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:38.680
Tim Link: And you established that for the most part, they're happy and they know they got sort of a job to do.

00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:40.600
Tim Link: They like their show, but they also have fun at home.

00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:49.600
Tim Link: What about just your everyday dog, your golden retriever you have at home or your schnauzer who barks at every delivery guy that comes to the door?

00:17:50.040 --> 00:17:55.340
Tim Link: Did you find that they're happy and is it a different type of happiness or is it all the same at the end of the day?

00:17:55.640 --> 00:18:15.140
Tommy Tomlinson: One of the things that I think a lot of research is starting to figure out and intuition tells you this too, is that more than any other creature on earth, besides people and maybe even including people, dogs have figured out a way to adapt to make their own happiness, so to speak.

00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:23.500
Tommy Tomlinson: Dogs have been by our side for somewhere around 30,000 years and in that time, their jobs have changed just immensely.

00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.460
Tommy Tomlinson: You know, they started out as basically power tools.

00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:37.640
Tommy Tomlinson: You know, they pulled sleds and they caught game and they did all these things that, like blue collar labor jobs that we early human beings needed them to do.

00:18:37.840 --> 00:18:44.040
Tommy Tomlinson: Well, overall this time, they've evolved to the point where most dogs are basically therapy dogs now.

00:18:44.380 --> 00:19:01.580
Tommy Tomlinson: There are companions, there are housemates, there are friends and soundings, that is a huge change in personality that a dog has had to make, a change in a role in the human family, but dogs have managed to figure out ways to make themselves happy.

00:19:01.600 --> 00:19:08.600
Tommy Tomlinson: And I think part of that adaptation is they have always been in tune with what makes us happy.

00:19:08.820 --> 00:19:20.500
Tommy Tomlinson: You know, there's at least some research that says that when a dog and a person lock eyes, when they look at each other, they both get a dose of oxytocin, which is this pleasure enzyme.

00:19:20.760 --> 00:19:32.620
Tommy Tomlinson: And so kind of no matter what you ask a dog to do or what situation you put a dog in, as long as it's not abusive, the dog finds a way to kind of deal with it and be happy.

00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:40.220
Tommy Tomlinson: And that happiness, their ability to adapt to our needs and our desires is a big thing that makes us happy.

00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:50.260
Tommy Tomlinson: And so that sort of mutual admiration society I think is part of the reason that had this partnership for thousands and thousands of years.

00:19:50.320 --> 00:19:51.040
Tim Link: Very good.

00:19:51.060 --> 00:19:51.900
Tim Link: I like that.

00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:55.040
Tim Link: And of course, it's just another reason to live a dog's life.

00:19:55.060 --> 00:19:58.820
Tim Link: Always be happy, adapt to your situations and find the pleasure in life.

00:19:58.840 --> 00:19:59.800
Tim Link: I think that's the key.

00:20:00.120 --> 00:20:01.120
Tommy Tomlinson: It's a pretty good way to live.

00:20:01.320 --> 00:20:02.020
Tim Link: I think so.

00:20:02.020 --> 00:20:02.660
Tim Link: I think so.

00:20:02.860 --> 00:20:10.060
Tim Link: All right, we're going to take a quick commercial break, continue our conversation after the break with Tommy Tomlinson and his book Dogland.

00:20:10.080 --> 00:20:12.960
Tim Link: I also want to talk to Tommy a little bit about writing in general.

00:20:12.980 --> 00:20:14.440
Tim Link: So everybody hang tight.

00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:16.040
Tim Link: We'll come back right for this break.

00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:19.240
Tim Link: You're listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.

00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:28.880
Tim Link: Hi, this is Tim Link, animal communicator and pet expert and host of Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.

00:20:29.040 --> 00:20:31.640
Tim Link: Have you ever wanted to know what your pet is really thinking?

00:20:31.660 --> 00:20:34.880
Tim Link: Do you want to find out if they truly understand what you're trying to tell them?

00:20:35.040 --> 00:20:38.540
Tim Link: Or wish you could build a better understanding and closer relationship with your pet?

00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:39.640
Tim Link: Well, now you can.

00:20:39.840 --> 00:20:43.440
Tim Link: Learning to communicate with animals is a four-part on-demand workshop.

00:20:43.560 --> 00:21:01.280
Tim Link: In the workshop, you'll learn the essential techniques that are necessary to communicate with animals, including what is animal communication, breathing correctly to achieve the perfect state to communicate with your animals at a deeper level, using guided meditation exercises and method to communicate with animals, and how to send and receive information from your animals.

00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:11.800
Tim Link: So if you're wanting to learn how to communicate and connect with your animals at a deeper level, visit petliferadio.com forward slash workshop and purchase and download Learning to Communicate with Animals.

00:21:11.820 --> 00:21:12.800
Tim Link: You'll be glad you did.

00:21:26.280 --> 00:21:29.740
Tim Link: Welcome back to Animal Writes on PetLife Radio.

00:21:30.560 --> 00:21:39.500
Tim Link: Continuing our conversation with Pulitzer Prize finalist Tommy Tomlinson in his book Dogland, Passion, Glory and Lots of Slobber at the Westminster Dog Show.

00:21:40.380 --> 00:21:59.820
Tim Link: Now, Tommy, when romping around the country talking to all the people, seeing all the dogs, taking all your notes, putting it on a whiteboard or whatever your style is, how did you find writing the book as far as did you have more material than you could possibly deal with and you're coming out with part two of the dog show?

00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:04.560
Tim Link: Or was it a matter of structuring through your notes to get the perfect book?

00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:09.340
Tommy Tomlinson: Well, if you do it right, you always have more material than you know what to do with.

00:22:09.940 --> 00:22:16.780
Tommy Tomlinson: And there's always a winnowing down process, at least for me, where I try to figure out what to leave in and what to leave out.

00:22:17.280 --> 00:22:22.540
Tommy Tomlinson: And that can be grueling, but it can also be a lot of fun.

00:22:22.840 --> 00:22:28.180
Tommy Tomlinson: And for me, the key is to try to figure out what the book is really about.

00:22:28.740 --> 00:22:33.800
Tommy Tomlinson: I mean, I think of every kind of piece of writing or every storytelling has two levels.

00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:38.360
Tommy Tomlinson: One is sort of the text, which is what you might call the plot.

00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:49.440
Tommy Tomlinson: So this book, the plot is, you follow a champion dog and its handler through the Westminster Dog Show, and you learn about the relationship between dogs and people.

00:22:49.900 --> 00:22:52.960
Tommy Tomlinson: That's sort of the punchline, the elevator pitch for this book.

00:22:53.540 --> 00:23:00.460
Tommy Tomlinson: But what it's really about and what it took me a while to sort of land on is it's about connection.

00:23:00.820 --> 00:23:14.380
Tommy Tomlinson: You know how human beings and dogs have this great desire to connect to another living creature and how dogs, more than any other creature we know, have figured out a way to connect to humans.

00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:18.420
Tommy Tomlinson: And so that's part of the reason we love and admire them so much.

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:30.700
Tommy Tomlinson: And so as I was going through my notes, as I was going through the scenes, I had witnessed interviews I'd done, I thought, what does this particular moment have to do with connection?

00:23:31.120 --> 00:23:36.260
Tommy Tomlinson: And generally, if it didn't have much to do with it, that's the kind of stuff I would tend to leave out.

00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:43.380
Tommy Tomlinson: Now, I would have an occasional aside, not the entire, not every page of the book is about that thing.

00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:55.540
Tommy Tomlinson: But I wanted the drift of the book, the main focus of it, to be about connecting, because I think it's, that's a universal thing that everybody wants, everybody cares about.

00:23:56.060 --> 00:24:04.180
Tommy Tomlinson: And so, as I went through my stuff, that's how I kind of narrowed the focus was, figuring out how to talk about that part of it.

00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:05.580
Tim Link: And I love how you did that.

00:24:05.600 --> 00:24:08.500
Tim Link: So big kudos on the book as a whole.

00:24:08.540 --> 00:24:18.880
Tim Link: But you know, when you first get a book, I don't know about you, when you first see a book written by someone, obviously, you know, beautiful cover, got the dog on there, always have a dog on your cover, it helps sell books.

00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:25.340
Tim Link: But you know, I sort of get this first impression, it's like Dogland, you know, a Westminster Dog Show.

00:24:25.360 --> 00:24:28.180
Tim Link: Okay, I'm going to find the scuttlebutt about Westminster Dog Show.

00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:31.440
Tim Link: That's what I was fully intending to get when I opened up the book.

00:24:31.860 --> 00:24:44.640
Tim Link: And then, as you eloquently put it all together, this is really a book more about, yeah, you're going to learn about, you know, dogs and dog shows in Westminster and you're going to learn about animals and dogs in our lives at home, but it's that connection.

00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:51.940
Tim Link: And that was the real sort of icing on the top of it for me when I read through the books, the fact that, okay, no, it's a whole lot more than that.

00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.700
Tim Link: We've got enough scuttlebutt in life.

00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:59.320
Tim Link: Let's talk about how we can really connect in our animals, particular dogs, do that probably better than anybody.

00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:12.900
Tommy Tomlinson: Yeah, I like stories and I like writing stories where it starts out kind of being about one thing and then it evolves and you kind of get maybe an emotional punch that you weren't expecting.

00:25:12.940 --> 00:25:30.340
Tommy Tomlinson: It hits harder than you thought or it starts out kind of funny and light and ends up, it's like a great Disney movie or something like that, where by the end you just feel really emotionally invested in these people and what they're talking about and thinking about.

00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:56.480
Tommy Tomlinson: It turns out to be maybe more of an emotional experience than you expect and so I hope that's kind of what people took from this book as they went through it, is that it starts out being about Westminster and about dogs and the show dog world, which can be sort of funny and absurd, but slowly as you turn the pages, maybe it kind of evolves into something a little deeper and I hope a little more profound and interesting.

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:02.540
Tim Link: Absolutely, well, the book does that Dogland, Passion, Glory and Lots of Slobber at the Westminster Dog Show for sure.

00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:08.920
Tim Link: I do have to ask you about writing in general before I let you off the hook here because you're obviously multifaceted.

00:26:09.020 --> 00:26:16.100
Tim Link: You know, you're a successful author of books, you've written columns, so being a columnist is a much different story than that.

00:26:16.320 --> 00:26:21.780
Tim Link: And then you've written very excellent pieces for various different types of magazines and topics.

00:26:22.320 --> 00:26:35.200
Tim Link: Is there one you prefer better than the other or is one more challenging than the other or can you sort of parlay what you do with, say, writing a piece for a particular magazine to what you're doing as columnist and as an author?

00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:42.120
Tommy Tomlinson: It helps to think about it as sort of playing with LEGOs or building blocks or something.

00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:47.460
Tommy Tomlinson: You know, a column that I would write when I was in my newspaper days might be 600 words.

00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:54.120
Tommy Tomlinson: A magazine story that I might write for ESPN or Esquire or something might be 6,000.

00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:58.120
Tommy Tomlinson: And then this book is probably 65, 70,000 words.

00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:06.800
Tommy Tomlinson: But if you think about a book as, oh my God, I have to sit down and write 70,000 words, your brain freezes.

00:27:07.540 --> 00:27:10.140
Tommy Tomlinson: You have to break it down into smaller pieces.

00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:14.880
Tommy Tomlinson: And so I would break it down into like, okay, today I'm just working on this little section.

00:27:15.100 --> 00:27:19.180
Tommy Tomlinson: And when I get this little section done, that will lead me to the next little section.

00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:22.600
Tommy Tomlinson: And when I've written a few of these little sections, hey, what do you know?

00:27:22.620 --> 00:27:23.240
Tommy Tomlinson: I've got a chapter.

00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.280
Tommy Tomlinson: And when you've written out some of these chapters, hey, what do you know?

00:27:26.300 --> 00:27:26.960
Tommy Tomlinson: I've got a book.

00:27:27.380 --> 00:27:35.800
Tommy Tomlinson: And so it just helps to like, not think too hard about it being a really big major project.

00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:39.820
Tommy Tomlinson: Just make it like a little project for you every day.

00:27:40.260 --> 00:27:42.880
Tommy Tomlinson: And this is what people teach about everything, right?

00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:48.360
Tommy Tomlinson: From exercise to any big task in your life that you want to complete.

00:27:48.820 --> 00:27:52.220
Tommy Tomlinson: If you try to like swallow it whole, you'll never get there.

00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:57.760
Tommy Tomlinson: But if you break it down into small pieces that are more manageable, that's how it gets done.

00:27:58.340 --> 00:27:58.820
Tim Link: Nice.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:27:59.740
Tim Link: I like that.

00:27:59.800 --> 00:28:00.580
Tim Link: I like that.

00:28:00.600 --> 00:28:04.100
Tim Link: So good words of wisdom there because you're absolutely right.

00:28:04.220 --> 00:28:12.680
Tim Link: Especially you get excited about a book and perhaps you turn in the first few chapters and get the editors all excited about it.

00:28:12.700 --> 00:28:16.840
Tim Link: And then they say, okay, great, go write it and give it to us in three months.

00:28:16.840 --> 00:28:20.740
Tim Link: And all of a sudden you got to come up with 60,000 words.

00:28:21.040 --> 00:28:37.060
Tommy Tomlinson: Right, and that's what I tell people about writing a book is the main thing about it is it needs to be something you're willing to live with for a while because it took, COVID was a part of this, but it took me almost four years from the time I started working on this book till the time it came out.

00:28:37.580 --> 00:28:48.620
Tommy Tomlinson: And so, if you're living with a project that you don't enjoy or that feels like drudgery every day, you're really gonna hate it by the time you're done.

00:28:49.040 --> 00:28:56.700
Tommy Tomlinson: So make sure whatever you choose, you choose something that you're excited about and that you feel happy about walking in there every day.

00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:01.220
Tommy Tomlinson: That doesn't mean that you're gonna be thrilled with the work every single day.

00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:04.620
Tommy Tomlinson: You know, professionals write even when they don't even feel like it.

00:29:05.080 --> 00:29:09.260
Tommy Tomlinson: But it does mean that by and large, you need to be excited about what you're doing.

00:29:09.620 --> 00:29:10.720
Tim Link: Nice, I like it.

00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:19.740
Tim Link: I think that's good words of advice for all of you writers and people wanting to publish their books, but also good lessons for life in general.

00:29:20.120 --> 00:29:22.480
Tim Link: Be passionate about what you're doing, enjoy what you're doing.

00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.960
Tim Link: And at the end of the day, you can feel proud about all the things you've accomplished.

00:29:26.360 --> 00:29:27.960
Tim Link: Well, Tommy, thanks for coming on the show.

00:29:27.980 --> 00:29:28.780
Tim Link: It's fantastic.

00:29:28.800 --> 00:29:29.960
Tim Link: Everybody pick up a copy of the book.

00:29:29.980 --> 00:29:36.480
Tim Link: It's called Dogland, Passion, Glory and Lots of Slobber at the Westminster Dog Show by Tommy Tomlinson.

00:29:36.800 --> 00:29:39.500
Tim Link: Tommy, congratulations on a fantastic book.

00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:42.500
Tim Link: And we'll look forward to chatting with you somewhere down the road.

00:29:42.840 --> 00:29:43.500
Tommy Tomlinson: Thank you so much.

00:29:43.520 --> 00:29:44.240
Tommy Tomlinson: This was a blast.

00:29:45.140 --> 00:29:45.800
Tim Link: My pleasure.

00:29:46.740 --> 00:29:48.720
Tim Link: Well, we're coming to the end of the show today.

00:29:48.740 --> 00:29:52.420
Tim Link: I want to thank everyone for listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.

00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:55.820
Tim Link: Thank the producers and sponsors for making this show possible.

00:29:56.060 --> 00:30:07.320
Tim Link: If you have any questions, comments or ideas for the show, you can get ahold of us at petliferadio.com and we'll be glad to answer your questions, entertain your comments, bring on the people you want to hear from most.

00:30:07.740 --> 00:30:10.900
Tim Link: While you're there, check out all the other wonderful hosts and shows.

00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.520
Tim Link: It's a cornucopia of barking fun.

00:30:14.020 --> 00:30:21.260
Tim Link: So until next time, write a great story about the animals in your life and who knows, you may be the next guest on Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.

00:30:21.520 --> 00:30:22.180
Tim Link: Have a great day.

00:30:22.800 --> 00:30:28.840
Announcer: Let's talk pets, every week on demand, only on petliferadio.com.

 

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  Tommy Tomlinson

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