W. Bruce Cameron - Ripley: Fire Station Five
In this episode I have a chat with #1 New York Times Bestselling Author W. Bruce Cameron. We discuss his latest book Ripley: Fire Station Five, which is the latest in his Dogs With A Purpose Series. The book is fun and heartwarming, introducing the reader to the bravery and hardworking nature of fire rescue dogs. We also learn from the master himself about what it takes to be an overwhelmingly successful and versatile writer – from chapter books for children, young adult reader books and adult novels. Bruce has the unique ability to write for readers of all ages…and a dog is always involved. Have a listen to one of the best, my good friend, W. Bruce Cameron. Enjoy!
Listen to Episode #218 Now:
BIO:
W. BRUCE CAMERON is the #1 New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of A Dog's Purpose, A Dog's Way Home, and A Dog's Journey (all now major motion pictures), The Dog Master, A Dog's Promise, the Puppy Tales for young readers (starting with Ellie's Story and Bailey's Story), The Dogs of Christmas, The Midnight Plan of the Repo Man, and others. He lives in California.
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets.
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Tim Link: Welcome to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio, I'm your host Tim Link. Thanks for joining me today.
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Tim Link: I got one of my favorites of all time.
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Tim Link: I consider him a friend of mine.
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Tim Link: He's a fantastic writer, a fantastic person.
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Tim Link: Of course, we're talking about W.
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Tim Link: Bruce Cameron.
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Tim Link: We're gonna talk to Bruce a little bit about his latest in the Young Readers series, Ripley, Fire Station Five, or the Dogs With A Purpose Series.
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Tim Link: So we're gonna talk a little bit about the book, catch up on things, and then of course, before we let him off the hook, we'll talk to him about writing in general.
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Tim Link: We'll talk to him, learn a little bit more about how the master crafts his craft.
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Tim Link: So everybody hang tight.
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Tim Link: It's gonna be a fun episode.
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Tim Link: Always great to talk to my buddy, Bruce.
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Tim Link: So we'll come back right after this commercial break.
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Tim Link: You're listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.
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Tim Link: Welcome back to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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Tim Link: Joining me now is the number one New York Times bestselling author.
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Tim Link: Of course, you know him from his Dogs With A Purpose series.
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Tim Link: And now he's just got a slew of other fantastic stuff going on.
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Tim Link: Of course, we're talking about W.
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Tim Link: Bruce Cameron.
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Tim Link: Bruce, welcome to the show.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Thank you, Tim.
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W. Bruce Cameron: It's great to be back.
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W. Bruce Cameron: We've been doing this since the end of the First World War, I think.
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Tim Link: I think, yeah, I'm waiting for the documentary to come out about the ancient times when we did it through pigeons and stones.
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Tim Link: So I'm looking forward to that.
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Tim Link: So yes, my friend, it's been a little while now, but always great to catch up with you.
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Tim Link: And I know we go back a long way.
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Tim Link: So I'm super excited to be able to chat with you a little bit.
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Tim Link: And I'm really excited about the launch of the latest Ripley Fire Station Five.
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Tim Link: Tell us a little bit about it.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Yeah, I've been writing books for younger readers for a long time.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I write my Puppy Tales, and then for even smaller children, I write Lily to the Rescue.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And those series, there's 10 Puppy Tales out so far, there's 10 Lilies, another one's coming out next year, another Lily.
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W. Bruce Cameron: So I've been steadily doing that.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And I wanted to, I don't know, you know, maybe work a little harder.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And I came up with the idea of this Dogs With A Purpose concept.
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W. Bruce Cameron: These are working dogs that pay a lot of their self-worth out of just working.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And the first one was about a water rescue dog, that's Zeus Water Rescue, that came out almost exactly a year ago.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And then in the summer, this is the summer of Ripley.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Ripley Fire Station Five is about a dog, who initiates a pilot program in a suburban Minneapolis, a suburb of Minneapolis, a suburban fire department, where Ripley is learning how to do search and rescue inside burning building.
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W. Bruce Cameron: So to think about this, the Dogs With A Purpose series is, they're a lot harder to write because I have to do research.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I have to know what I'm doing.
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W. Bruce Cameron: It was actually, Zeus was terribly difficult.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I had to go to Hawaii to research Zeus, if you can believe it.
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Tim Link: The struggles you go through, Bruce.
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W. Bruce Cameron: You know, it was tough.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And if people want to contribute to a GoFundMe, that would make sense.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I went there, I enrolled in a program to train with dogs in search and rescue, because part of what Zeus does, sort of as a sideline, is search and rescue.
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W. Bruce Cameron: But then I got COVID while I was there, and I wound up spending the entire time in the hotel room looking out at the waves.
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W. Bruce Cameron: So that teaches me to try to set a book in Hawaii.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I'm going to get punished for that.
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W. Bruce Cameron: So this one's set in Minneapolis, which is a wonderful place to be, especially at the dead of winter.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Ripley is a wonderful dog, a blue and murrell border collie, very smart, flunked out of School for the Blind program because he's a little hyper.
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W. Bruce Cameron: The lieutenant in the fire department is dead set against dogs, and Ripley forms a relationship with his dog sitter, a girl who comes into his life.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And so it's really, her name's Samantha, and Samantha has some issues.
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W. Bruce Cameron: She's got an anxiety disorder, and the dog could really help her when it's at.
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W. Bruce Cameron: So Ripley is a full-time working dog, and just the tension of trying to figure out how to make it work in a fire department with a dog in a fire, it's a challenge.
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W. Bruce Cameron: So part of this book is just the training and the experience from a dog's point of view of what it's like to be trained in a pilot program for fighting people that are trapped in fires.
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Tim Link: That's fantastic.
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Tim Link: So the research behind this one is similar to what you had attempted in Hawaii.
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Tim Link: Did you go to Minneapolis and work with the fire station people to get a better understanding?
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Tim Link: Or how was the research done?
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W. Bruce Cameron: I did go to Minneapolis, mainly just because I like to, if I'm going to set a book somewhere, I like to get the lay of the land.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I like to know what the air is like.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I got to Minneapolis and one of the first things I noticed is that there are so many trees, and that's something a dog would pick up on.
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W. Bruce Cameron: A dog might not notice that people are eating beer, cheese, soup, but they would be definitely into all these trees.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I like to go and do that, the topography.
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W. Bruce Cameron: But the research for Ripley is personal experience because one of my very first jobs as an adult was working for a fire department in a suburban town outside of Kansas City.
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W. Bruce Cameron: They put me on the rescue squad and they said, okay, it's your job to go into a burning building and find people if they're trapped.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I went into the burning building.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I couldn't find my hands.
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W. Bruce Cameron: The smoke was just completely black and oppressive.
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W. Bruce Cameron: But I remember crawling around and thinking, I've got all this equipment on my back.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I can barely move.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I'm clinging to the hose.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I'm terrified.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Why am I here?
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W. Bruce Cameron: I thought even at that time, this is how long ago.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I thought, why don't we have dogs doing this?
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W. Bruce Cameron: Because a dog's nose can find people even in smoke.
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W. Bruce Cameron: It's all you have to do is just train them to get past whatever stimulus is in front of them and focus on that they need to find.
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W. Bruce Cameron: That was the germ of this idea way, way back when I first started working in the real world.
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Tim Link: I love that.
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Tim Link: I know that you toiled at many, many jobs.
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Tim Link: Obviously, a master repo man.
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Tim Link: We know that one.
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Tim Link: I don't know if I knew about the fireman job.
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Tim Link: The CV was quite lengthy long before you became a world-class author.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I had so many jobs before I finally sold a book, but I always wanted to be a writer.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I didn't know I was going to write dog books, but I knew I was going to write books.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I knew I wanted to write novels, even though initially I was writing humor books, but it just fell right to make a book about Ripley.
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W. Bruce Cameron: The tension for this that comes from a lot of different ways, one of them is that should they do the right thing by this girl, Samantha, and take the dog out of the program and give her the dog, because she's got an anxiety disorder?
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W. Bruce Cameron: Or is there a way to fold Ripley's duties as a fire station dog into being a support dog for Samantha?
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W. Bruce Cameron: These are some of the questions that have to be answered during the course of Ripley Fire Station Five.
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Tim Link: That's fantastic.
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Tim Link: I love the fact of the research component.
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Tim Link: I know you do a lot more research for your novels and all your other ones as well.
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Tim Link: But I love the fact that you actually delve into that, get a flavor for the craft, even though you had some knowledge of it before working as a firefighter, but also going there, looking at topography.
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Tim Link: Because it would be very, in my opinion, I don't want to take this slide of hand, but it would be very easy to be able to write and just pull up something on Google and find out there's trees in more than lakes in Minnesota, more than lakes in the Vikings in Minnesota.
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Tim Link: Though Minnesota fans, don't write me letters, please.
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Tim Link: I understand, but yeah, in the fact that you went there to delve into it a little bit more to get a better flavor for it, and it actually opened it up to, I think, much deeper writing, in my opinion.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Thank you.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I try to be as authentic as I can.
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W. Bruce Cameron: On the other hand, I also am very expansive.
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W. Bruce Cameron: For example, in Zeus Water Rescue, the first dog in the series, there really isn't a program in America to train water rescue dogs.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I have met literally all the water rescue dogs in America because we have so few of them.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I've met the trainers.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I know what they're doing and they are not being hired to train hundreds and hundreds of dogs, even though we've got thousands of miles of beaches and the potential to save many lives if we had dogs.
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W. Bruce Cameron: These dogs are not being utilized in the United States.
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W. Bruce Cameron: When I invented a program for training water rescue dogs in Hawaii, I was making something up.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Then I also made up though that there's a boy named Timo who falls in love with the dog and wants to keep the dog even though they're raising it for sale.
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W. Bruce Cameron: They want to sell Zeus, the owner does, the father, but the son wants to keep Zeus.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And so there's that story, that underlying tension that makes that a story worth.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And when it comes to Ripley, same thing.
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W. Bruce Cameron: It's like they're absolutely adamantly against having Ripley in the fire department.
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W. Bruce Cameron: The captain is inclined, but the captain's getting ready to fire.
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W. Bruce Cameron: What will happen to Ripley then?
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W. Bruce Cameron: And what are we going to do about Samantha's growing dependence on Ripley for emotional support?
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W. Bruce Cameron: It's a complicated problem.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And I look at that as being the secret to my success writing for younger children.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I don't dumb anything down.
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W. Bruce Cameron: These books are basically, I write them for adults, and then my editors go through and they request permission to make the vocabulary a little more simple, sometimes to take out themes if they find to be too mature.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And I'm okay with that.
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W. Bruce Cameron: But I never set out to write a children's book.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I set out to write an adult book.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And that is the feature of Dogs With A Purpose.
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Tim Link: There you go.
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Tim Link: And you know you're a world class best selling author when your editors actually ask you to manipulate the book.
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Tim Link: So kudos on you on that one.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I love that for sure.
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Tim Link: I love that, correct me if I'm wrong on this, the whole concept of Dogs With A Purpose came from a dog's purpose.
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Tim Link: Each one of those characters, the animals, the dogs, of course, had jobs.
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Tim Link: They had various jobs throughout the whole sequence of the novel.
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Tim Link: I'm assuming this did pull, the series did pull from that and highlights individual dogs in more detail.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Well, when I first, this is ancient history, when I sat down to write A Dog's Purpose, many, many years ago, it seems, I had it in mind that a couple of the dogs would be tracking dogs, and I wanted an air sniffing dog, and I wanted a ground sniffing dog, and then I came to realize that I didn't have to have two, and that it would be more fun to have a search and rescue dog who works for the fire department.
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W. Bruce Cameron: That was Ellie, and Ellie was a very important part of the book, but Bailey was just a pet, and I don't want to say just a pet because they're so important.
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Tim Link: Yeah, you don't want to get letters either.
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W. Bruce Cameron: But you were right, Tim.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I was focused on how much dogs really love having a purpose.
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W. Bruce Cameron: We bred them for so long to be at our beck and call and to assist us in whatever we're doing, that they long for that now.
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W. Bruce Cameron: That's what they want.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And so I set out to say, well, I'll write a series about dogs that are working.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I'll call it Dogs With A Purpose.
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W. Bruce Cameron: It does tie in to A Dog's Purpose a little bit, but that's more of a branding thing than it is a theme.
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W. Bruce Cameron: But as I said, doing the research for this, I'm writing a book right now about a sheep herding dog.
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W. Bruce Cameron: It'll be out in a year.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And we're calling that one Stella.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And Stella is sheep herding.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And that's so complicated and difficult to learn as a human.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I don't know how dogs do it because I can't keep these commands straight, but they do.
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Tim Link: So I see a trip in the future to the Scottish Highlands or Ireland to really get a better feel for how sheep herding dogs actually do their craft.
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W. Bruce Cameron: That's a great suggestion, Tim.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I'll put you in touch with my editor and you can tell her that the publisher needs to underwrite a little research.
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Tim Link: Yeah, I think so.
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Tim Link: I think so.
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Tim Link: Now you just need to figure out what dogs in Tahiti do.
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Tim Link: That's the key.
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Tim Link: That's the next one.
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Tim Link: I love it.
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Tim Link: So let me ask you on the book itself.
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Tim Link: I love the fact that Ripley and Fire Station Five, this is a border collie.
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Tim Link: Now I won't profess to have ever been in every fire station out there and I won't profess to know everything about the craft.
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Tim Link: They do fantastic work.
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Tim Link: But every dog I've ever seen, you go back to the traditional Dalmatian, of course, that's associated with fire stations.
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Tim Link: I've seen quite a few Golden Retrievers and various types of Labradors, sniffing type dogs.
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Tim Link: But I've never seen a Border Collie.
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Tim Link: So when you put together Ripley Fire Station Five, is it a matter of trying to find something a little bit different that would provide a little bit different hook into the book?
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Tim Link: Or was it more of you learn more from the research side of things that said, hey, you know, this is the type of dog we should put into the book.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Well, all dogs are wonderful.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And I so enjoy reading about different dogs and their trait.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And Border Collies are really smart.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And they are among the dogs that are accepted into the Leader Dog for the Blind programs.
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W. Bruce Cameron: It was initially going to be a book about a leader dog for the blind.
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W. Bruce Cameron: But honestly, I ultimately decided that it was more interesting to go with the Fire Department idea.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And that's where I went.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Every dog is wonderful.
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W. Bruce Cameron: And any dog is capable of doing the kind of work Ripley does.
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W. Bruce Cameron: But Ripley is just a very special dog who happens to be the one that I picked.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I could have picked a Dalmatian.
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W. Bruce Cameron: I think people always decry the intelligence of Dalmatian.
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W. Bruce Cameron: They are beautiful dogs.
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W. Bruce Cameron: That doesn't mean they're dumb and beautiful.
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W. Bruce Cameron: Some of them are very smart.
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W. Bruce Cameron: So that wasn't a factor.
00:16:01.420 --> 00:16:06.060
W. Bruce Cameron: Labradors, I'll just note that my dog, Zeus, is a Labrador.
00:16:06.280 --> 00:16:10.180
W. Bruce Cameron: And I have some Labradors sprinkled throughout my books.
00:16:10.180 --> 00:16:14.340
W. Bruce Cameron: I grew up with Labradors, so it's very easy for me to write about those.
00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:17.060
W. Bruce Cameron: So I kind of needed to pick a different breed.
00:16:17.060 --> 00:16:28.100
W. Bruce Cameron: And I'd never written about border collies before, but when I started researching them, I was fascinated by their instincts, their desire to impose order on chaos.
00:16:28.100 --> 00:16:34.300
W. Bruce Cameron: That seemed perfect for a dog who was going into a burning building.
00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:35.320
Tim Link: I love that.
00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:37.100
Tim Link: I love that aspect of it.
00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:41.640
Tim Link: Putting together the book itself, the background, the research, and the things that went into it.
00:16:41.640 --> 00:16:52.720
Tim Link: I love the fact that you started on one path or one idea, whether it be the type of dog or in what they would be doing, and sort of finessed it to what would actually be something you think would be attractive.
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.160
Tim Link: How do you finesse the type of character that's in the book?
00:16:56.160 --> 00:16:59.720
Tim Link: Because oftentimes, obviously, there's a dog that has a job.
00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:07.020
Tim Link: That's one part of the drama, but the other is the dog is supporting, usually, a child or someone within a family member.
00:17:07.020 --> 00:17:16.180
Tim Link: How do you develop that part of it, and decide what type of personality, character, trait, challenge, whatever it may be, that that particular character is going to be going through?
00:17:16.180 --> 00:17:16.620
W. Bruce Cameron: Yeah.
00:17:16.620 --> 00:17:23.200
W. Bruce Cameron: That's a great question, Tim, because ultimately, in my dog books, there are an awful lot of people.
00:17:23.620 --> 00:17:32.760
W. Bruce Cameron: An exception might be arts of the book I wrote called The Dog Master, which went into the inner workings of a pack of wolves.
00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:40.660
W. Bruce Cameron: But for the most part, dogs, the drama surrounding a dog is mostly due to the external influences of human being.
00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:50.320
W. Bruce Cameron: You don't really have dogs that are embezzling from the company, or sending bullying e-mails, that just doesn't happen.
00:17:50.320 --> 00:17:55.660
W. Bruce Cameron: So if you want to put drama into a book, you're going to have to rope in some human being.
00:17:55.660 --> 00:18:09.260
W. Bruce Cameron: And I think that a lot of people read my books, like A Dog's Purpose, and scarcely notice the people in it, except for when you start talking to them, they start talking about the relationship between the dog and the people.
00:18:09.260 --> 00:18:12.260
W. Bruce Cameron: And that's the essence of dogs with a purpose.
00:18:12.260 --> 00:18:18.580
W. Bruce Cameron: They're here to help us humans, therefore, our stories are important to the book as well.
00:18:18.580 --> 00:18:22.040
W. Bruce Cameron: Ripley, Fire Station Five, there's all these firefighters.
00:18:22.040 --> 00:18:25.260
W. Bruce Cameron: And then there's Samantha, the girl, who's his dog sitter.
00:18:25.260 --> 00:18:29.380
W. Bruce Cameron: And then there's the lieutenant, who wants the dog out of the fire department.
00:18:29.380 --> 00:18:33.400
W. Bruce Cameron: And Josh, who is the person who brought the dog into the program.
00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:49.720
W. Bruce Cameron: So you've got all these things going on, and it's got mostly to do with humans, but people who want to read about dogs and understand dogs and just be in the world of dogs, they will not be disappointed by Ripley Fire Station Five.
00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:50.500
Tim Link: There you go.
00:18:50.500 --> 00:18:50.920
Tim Link: Love it.
00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:51.540
Tim Link: Love it.
00:18:51.540 --> 00:18:56.660
Tim Link: And as they always say, never work with animals or children because they'll always upstage you.
00:18:57.980 --> 00:18:59.900
Tim Link: So I love that.
00:18:59.900 --> 00:19:01.580
Tim Link: Well, we're going to take a quick commercial break.
00:19:01.580 --> 00:19:04.420
Tim Link: We'll come back and continue our conversation with W.
00:19:04.420 --> 00:19:07.640
Tim Link: Bruce Cameron, the book Ripley Fire Station Five.
00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.960
Tim Link: We'll talk to Bruce also about writing in general.
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:11.980
Tim Link: So everybody hang tight.
00:19:12.660 --> 00:19:14.660
Tim Link: We'll come back after this commercial break.
00:19:14.660 --> 00:19:18.120
Tim Link: You're listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
00:19:20.540 --> 00:19:26.900
Tim Link: Hi, this is Tim Link, Animal Communicator and Pet Expert and host of Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:29.720
Tim Link: Have you ever wanted to know what your pet is really thinking?
00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:32.860
Tim Link: You want to find out if they truly understand what you're trying to tell them?
00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:36.500
Tim Link: Or wish you could build a better understanding and closer relationship with your pet?
00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:37.700
Tim Link: Well, now you can.
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00:19:59.340 --> 00:20:09.700
Tim Link: So if you're wanting to learn how to communicate and connect with your animals at a deeper level, visit petliferadio.com/workshop and purchase and download Learning to Communicate with Animals.
00:20:09.700 --> 00:20:10.560
Tim Link: You'll be glad you did.
00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:27.500
Tim Link: PetLifeRadio.com Welcome back to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
00:20:28.020 --> 00:20:32.860
Tim Link: Continuing our conversation with number one New York Times bestselling author and our good friend W.
00:20:32.860 --> 00:20:33.840
Tim Link: Bruce Cameron.
00:20:33.840 --> 00:20:37.860
Tim Link: Now, Bruce, we talked a lot about the book Ripley, Fire Station Five.
00:20:38.320 --> 00:20:55.420
Tim Link: When people take a look at this book, read through the book as well as just the series in general, is there key takeaways that you want them to walk away with or things that you get emails and people when they get to visit with you in all the book signings that you hope they say, hey, here's what I got out of it and thank you.
00:20:55.420 --> 00:21:00.940
Tim Link: I mean, is there something that more than that you're wanting or is that enough?
00:21:00.940 --> 00:21:16.860
W. Bruce Cameron: It's always true that a message I try to give everybody who is ever involved in reading any of my books is that dogs are thinking, feeling, sentient, being spiritual animals.
00:21:16.860 --> 00:21:18.440
W. Bruce Cameron: They rely on humans.
00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:19.660
W. Bruce Cameron: We are their shepherds.
00:21:19.660 --> 00:21:22.340
W. Bruce Cameron: We are their bosses.
00:21:22.340 --> 00:21:26.580
W. Bruce Cameron: They see us as being somewhere between their parents and their god.
00:21:26.580 --> 00:21:33.360
W. Bruce Cameron: They think of us as running the world and we owe it to them to shepherd them through the world in a safe way.
00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:37.860
W. Bruce Cameron: As one reads any of my books, but let's just take Ripley, Fire Station Five.
00:21:37.860 --> 00:21:42.140
W. Bruce Cameron: You quickly start to understand Ripley's fate is in the hands of humans.
00:21:42.140 --> 00:21:50.780
W. Bruce Cameron: Whatever is going to happen to Ripley, whatever Ripley wants is secondary to what is going to happen when the humans decide what his fate is.
00:21:50.780 --> 00:21:53.020
W. Bruce Cameron: The lesson, that's the takeaway.
00:21:53.020 --> 00:21:55.680
W. Bruce Cameron: We should recognize that and honor it.
00:21:55.680 --> 00:22:07.340
W. Bruce Cameron: We should always take special care that they are well cared for, and that they are never exposed to anything that's painful and harmful if we can help it.
00:22:07.340 --> 00:22:07.920
Tim Link: Love it.
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:08.920
Tim Link: Good messaging.
00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:12.760
Tim Link: I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I know our listeners do too.
00:22:12.760 --> 00:22:15.680
Tim Link: We love dogs and we love cats and every animal.
00:22:16.600 --> 00:22:18.580
Tim Link: I want to put that out there for sure.
00:22:18.580 --> 00:22:25.480
Tim Link: But yeah, dogs in our life, it is a special thing and I'm glad that you recognize it, and it comes out in everything you write.
00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:28.080
Tim Link: So big kudos as always.
00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:29.140
W. Bruce Cameron: Thank you.
00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:30.240
Tim Link: Let's talk about writing.
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:32.940
Tim Link: I know I've picked your brain many, many times over the years.
00:22:33.980 --> 00:22:34.640
Tim Link: It's amazing.
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:39.180
Tim Link: We've known each other for quite some time, and yet we've never aged a minute.
00:22:39.180 --> 00:22:42.100
Tim Link: So it works out great for us.
00:22:42.100 --> 00:22:52.120
Tim Link: But when we first met many moons ago, it was when A Dog's Purpose came out and followed by A Dog's Journey and all the wonderful novels that followed that.
00:22:52.120 --> 00:22:58.100
Tim Link: And then all of a sudden things started shifting, I say, or taking off or however you want to label it.
00:22:58.100 --> 00:23:10.100
Tim Link: And now you've got the novels that come out, you've got the Young Reader Novels and The Dogs With A Purpose Series, then you got the Puppy Tales Series, and then you got the Lily To The Rescue Chapter Books.
00:23:10.100 --> 00:23:16.980
Tim Link: So as I try to envision in my mind, there's like four different things going on.
00:23:16.980 --> 00:23:20.040
Tim Link: And how do you keep that structured?
00:23:20.040 --> 00:23:22.380
Tim Link: How do you keep that flow going?
00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:29.940
Tim Link: Because I'm assuming also, you can answer this question, is how often does a novel come out compared to a Lily To The Rescue Chapter Book?
00:23:30.500 --> 00:23:31.920
W. Bruce Cameron: Well, that's a great question.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:37.400
W. Bruce Cameron: I tend to publish maybe one book for grownups a year.
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:41.500
W. Bruce Cameron: Those generally take much longer to put together.
00:23:41.500 --> 00:23:53.620
W. Bruce Cameron: Although I will note that it's a bigger challenge to write a book, A Dogs With A Purpose Book, than pretty much any other kind of book I've ever written because of the amount of research and the amount of read, the way I've got to be accurate.
00:23:53.620 --> 00:24:00.100
W. Bruce Cameron: And I have a tendency to ignore, to my own peril, ignore timeline.
00:24:00.100 --> 00:24:01.560
W. Bruce Cameron: So I'll be like, okay.
00:24:01.560 --> 00:24:03.740
W. Bruce Cameron: And so then the lambs are born in December.
00:24:03.740 --> 00:24:06.440
W. Bruce Cameron: And then I look it up, lambs are not born in December.
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:18.360
W. Bruce Cameron: So that's always coming at, but for the most part, it's one adult book a year, one or two of the puppy tail slash dogs with a purpose.
00:24:18.360 --> 00:24:21.980
W. Bruce Cameron: Those are both the same length and they have similar targets.
00:24:21.980 --> 00:24:26.280
W. Bruce Cameron: I'd say that Dogs With A Purpose Series skews more older.
00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:30.220
W. Bruce Cameron: Many adults have read Seuss, Water Rescue.
00:24:30.220 --> 00:24:35.200
W. Bruce Cameron: They haven't read Ripley, Fire Station Five yet, because that's relatively new on the scene.
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:41.300
W. Bruce Cameron: But the adults like those books and older kids like those books, younger children like the puppy tales.
00:24:41.300 --> 00:24:44.480
W. Bruce Cameron: But then it goes to the reading level, honestly.
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:49.140
W. Bruce Cameron: I mean, I've had children and that's just how that goes.
00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:52.200
W. Bruce Cameron: I was certainly a precocious reader, and other people are too.
00:24:52.200 --> 00:25:06.260
W. Bruce Cameron: If you're a child and struggling with reading, a dog book, the point of view of a dog is told from the point of view of a wonderful, relatable animal who's optimistic, joyful, has not a mean bone in its body.
00:25:06.260 --> 00:25:12.740
W. Bruce Cameron: And I think that's a great character to lure you into reading a full novel.
00:25:12.740 --> 00:25:13.440
Tim Link: I love that.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:14.320
Tim Link: I love that idea.
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:14.960
Tim Link: And you're right.
00:25:15.260 --> 00:25:30.880
Tim Link: I do think that the younger adults and kids in particular, when they attach themselves to either a author or a style of writing or whatever it may be, they'll read everything that is put out by that particular author or that particular style.
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:37.300
Tim Link: And I think that's amazing because I would find it very hard, like you said, to say, okay, this book's going to be for adults.
00:25:37.300 --> 00:25:39.600
Tim Link: This one's going to be for, you know, young adults.
00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:44.440
Tim Link: This one's going to be for younger than, you know, so on and so forth down the line, because you never know.
00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:54.200
Tim Link: You never know what they're going to pick up and read because if they love the style of the book, the author of the book, the characters, the dogs for sure, they would want to read everything that comes out on that.
00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:55.420
W. Bruce Cameron: Yeah, I think so.
00:25:55.420 --> 00:26:06.600
W. Bruce Cameron: And so if you've got a child who's a reluctant reader, if you're a teacher, a librarian, or if you're a parent, try steering them toward one of my puppy tails and see if that makes a difference.
00:26:06.600 --> 00:26:07.380
Tim Link: I love that.
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:08.520
Tim Link: I love it.
00:26:08.520 --> 00:26:15.760
Tim Link: So let me ask you two more questions that come to mind as far as timing and scheduling and how you go about crafting.
00:26:16.180 --> 00:26:25.580
Tim Link: I don't need to know the life in Bruce Cameron, but I do need to know how do you go about structuring your day and then of course football season.
00:26:25.580 --> 00:26:27.260
Tim Link: We know the chiefs will interrupt some of that.
00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:34.160
Tim Link: If there's a nice freshly baked bunch of cookies that Catherine makes, that will interrupt things too.
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:35.900
Tim Link: But how do you structure your day?
00:26:35.900 --> 00:26:43.080
Tim Link: Because I would imagine you've got a lot of different things going on and you can't just focus on one particular book at a time, or do you?
00:26:43.580 --> 00:26:49.380
W. Bruce Cameron: Well, there's a process of rewriting, writing and rewriting.
00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:51.660
W. Bruce Cameron: I'm in the process of rewriting a book right now.
00:26:51.660 --> 00:26:56.240
W. Bruce Cameron: I literally started the next drafts before you and I had a phone call.
00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.380
W. Bruce Cameron: And that process is sequential.
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:08.420
W. Bruce Cameron: I don't think I could create and rewrite a book and then do one book one day and then switch to the other.
00:27:08.420 --> 00:27:18.320
W. Bruce Cameron: It is true though that when the book gets into the editing phase, they'll send me a bunch of artwork and they'll say, what do you think of this artwork or the book?
00:27:18.320 --> 00:27:23.880
W. Bruce Cameron: Or they'll send me edited pages and they'll say, the editor has these notes.
00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:34.960
W. Bruce Cameron: And so I can stop working on whatever book I'm on and jump into that for three days, five days, 10 days, however long that takes, and then come back to the book I'm creating.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:40.340
W. Bruce Cameron: But if I'm creating a book and I'm in a draft, I am loathed to halt that draft.
00:27:40.540 --> 00:27:42.560
W. Bruce Cameron: In fact, I had to do that one time.
00:27:42.560 --> 00:27:45.380
W. Bruce Cameron: It had to do with a motion picture deadline.
00:27:45.380 --> 00:27:54.220
W. Bruce Cameron: And I'm glad we did because the movie was made, came out and there was a dog's courage and, I'm sorry, a dog's way home and it was a great experience.
00:27:54.220 --> 00:28:01.480
W. Bruce Cameron: But I had to stop writing a book and then I never picked it back up because it just broke the momentum for me.
00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:03.580
W. Bruce Cameron: So that's a great question.
00:28:03.580 --> 00:28:08.560
W. Bruce Cameron: And I do, despite your expectations, I do pretty much go sequentially.
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:09.380
Tim Link: Wow.
00:28:09.380 --> 00:28:12.920
Tim Link: So, I mean, how many hours would you spend a day on this?
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:21.200
Tim Link: Because I know I've seen you and learned this from you that you're very structured, you're very detailed as far as how you go about doing things.
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:24.000
Tim Link: But also once you get locked in, that's what you're doing.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:26.940
Tim Link: You're in the zone, you're in the zone.
00:28:26.940 --> 00:28:34.880
Tim Link: But I mean, is that, is as simple as saying, okay, I enjoy so much, I'm locked in, I'm going to spend the next five hours writing something.
00:28:35.380 --> 00:28:46.660
Tim Link: Or is it more of I'm going to do as things pop in that I have to do, I'm going to write around that, an hour here, three hours there, five hours there, whatever it may be?
00:28:46.660 --> 00:28:51.080
W. Bruce Cameron: Well, you just described the devil and the angel of any writer.
00:28:51.080 --> 00:28:58.960
W. Bruce Cameron: There's the angel that says, look, let everything go and just concentrate on your writing.
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:04.200
W. Bruce Cameron: That's what gives you joy, that's how you make your living, and that you'll feel better if you do it that way.
00:29:04.520 --> 00:29:13.980
W. Bruce Cameron: Then there's the other part, which is the day-to-day new stuff that you just alluded to, and who's going to pick up the prescription from the drugstore.
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:21.380
W. Bruce Cameron: Pretty soon, you find that the entire day you have spent messing around instead of writing.
00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:32.320
W. Bruce Cameron: I do try to be disciplined, I block off time in my calendar, and I don't look at emails and texts when I get them, because I'm focused on writing my book, but it's difficult.
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:36.000
W. Bruce Cameron: And then my back is not in the greatest of shape.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:46.600
W. Bruce Cameron: And if I go more than four hours writing and sitting in the desk chair, I'm not going to be able to write as much the next day, and my back will just not let me do it.
00:29:46.600 --> 00:29:48.320
W. Bruce Cameron: So I have to pace myself.
00:29:48.320 --> 00:29:58.540
W. Bruce Cameron: And three hours, three and a half hours of staring at the screen and typing, working and sitting, and that's about all my body can take, the physical thing more than a mental thing.
00:29:58.540 --> 00:29:59.320
Tim Link: That's amazing.
00:29:59.320 --> 00:30:00.200
Tim Link: And that's very true.
00:30:00.540 --> 00:30:07.100
Tim Link: I think that people don't think of that, especially when you get into the computer chair and you're typing.
00:30:07.100 --> 00:30:09.300
Tim Link: Time slips by really, really quick.
00:30:09.300 --> 00:30:16.220
Tim Link: And if you don't stop every once in a while to get up and take a stretch, it will wear on you mentally, but it will wear on you physically as well.
00:30:16.220 --> 00:30:21.000
Tim Link: So unless you're going to do some doggie yoga with Tucker, you're in trouble.
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:24.740
Tim Link: And I don't know if Tucker is too much of a superstar to let that happen.
00:30:24.740 --> 00:30:26.040
W. Bruce Cameron: So he probably is.
00:30:27.940 --> 00:30:32.160
Tim Link: One last question I've got to ask you on the whole writing in general.
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:40.620
Tim Link: You're, as you mentioned a little bit earlier, you're getting quite a large bookshelf of your own books, which is fantastic.
00:30:40.620 --> 00:30:42.720
Tim Link: How do you as a writer keep track of them?
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:44.740
Tim Link: Because I think you're a master at that too.
00:30:44.740 --> 00:30:46.400
Tim Link: I'll give you big kudos for that too.
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:53.420
Tim Link: Because even in this episode, we've talked about various books in the series, whether we were talking about Ripley, you immediately went back to Zeus.
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:56.540
Tim Link: How do you keep track of that?
00:30:56.540 --> 00:31:08.320
Tim Link: Is it a matter of you're so intimately involved in the characters that you naturally remember them, like they're your children, or is it something that is a little bit different than that?
00:31:08.340 --> 00:31:21.640
W. Bruce Cameron: I am so sorry to have to shatter your illusions, but just earlier in this very interview, I referred to a character in Ripley as Josh, but that's from the Dogs of Christmas.
00:31:22.260 --> 00:31:25.520
W. Bruce Cameron: The character in Ripley is Ben.
00:31:25.520 --> 00:31:31.100
W. Bruce Cameron: So despite your wonderful compliments, I don't keep track of anything.
00:31:31.100 --> 00:31:49.000
W. Bruce Cameron: I actually have a list of who my characters are, because I found if I accidentally name a character in one of my books, and then I name another character in another book, the same name, I get readers writing me and saying, are these the same people?
00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:49.920
W. Bruce Cameron: Are they related?
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:50.700
W. Bruce Cameron: Do they know each other?
00:31:50.900 --> 00:31:53.160
W. Bruce Cameron: I'm like, oh my gosh, I didn't even see that coming.
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:57.580
W. Bruce Cameron: So I have to be very meticulous, otherwise I cause all that confusion.
00:31:57.580 --> 00:32:00.760
W. Bruce Cameron: But no, I don't keep it all trapped in my head.
00:32:00.760 --> 00:32:03.980
W. Bruce Cameron: Ripley is my 36th published book.
00:32:04.360 --> 00:32:11.800
W. Bruce Cameron: There's just no way I can remember all the 35 other books worth of characters, and situations, all of that.
00:32:11.800 --> 00:32:13.520
Tim Link: I just did that to trip you up a little bit, Bruce.
00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:14.480
Tim Link: I knew that all along.
00:32:16.840 --> 00:32:18.580
Tim Link: No, but I think it's great.
00:32:18.580 --> 00:32:26.900
Tim Link: That's great information for writers out there because, you know, you do become intimate with all the characters in the books, and you do become intimate with the books themselves.
00:32:26.900 --> 00:32:33.740
Tim Link: But as you're firing off different books and keeping things going, you know, you're working on the next one while we're talking about this one.
00:32:33.740 --> 00:32:35.640
Tim Link: That's always been one of the challenges.
00:32:35.820 --> 00:32:36.980
Tim Link: Keep it keep it straight.
00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:42.240
Tim Link: And I know our, you know, your fans will keep you honest on that and straight on that.
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:43.900
Tim Link: So you that's part of that research.
00:32:43.900 --> 00:32:50.220
Tim Link: You didn't give yourself a big enough pad on the back for some of the research or lack thereof, some of the other books.
00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:52.000
Tim Link: But yeah, that's part of the research as well.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:58.560
Tim Link: You have to make sure you're keeping track of, you know, you can't have a Josh one and a Josh two that will never fly.
00:32:58.560 --> 00:32:59.580
W. Bruce Cameron: That's exactly right.
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.420
W. Bruce Cameron: You've got that exactly right.
00:33:01.420 --> 00:33:01.900
Tim Link: Yeah.
00:33:01.900 --> 00:33:11.860
Tim Link: Well, Bruce, tell everybody where they can find out more about you and the books and activities where they can possibly catch up with you, because I know you're still getting out and about.
00:33:11.860 --> 00:33:14.540
Tim Link: And where can we best keep track of you?
00:33:14.540 --> 00:33:19.000
W. Bruce Cameron: You could pick up a copy of Ripley Fire Station Five, pretty much anywhere you buy books.
00:33:19.120 --> 00:33:23.040
W. Bruce Cameron: They are in Target and Walmart, and they are in Emory at the Bennett Bookstore.
00:33:23.040 --> 00:33:27.800
W. Bruce Cameron: And I would urge people to go in and ask for it by name.
00:33:27.800 --> 00:33:34.500
W. Bruce Cameron: The way to find out what's going on with me is wbrucecamera.com, which we don't update.
00:33:35.540 --> 00:33:39.080
W. Bruce Cameron: I mean, you'll probably find out where I was going on book tour last year.
00:33:39.080 --> 00:33:44.900
W. Bruce Cameron: I do know that I'll be on book tour pretty much solidly from late September through early November.
00:33:44.900 --> 00:33:48.020
W. Bruce Cameron: And I'm going to all cities all across the United States.
00:33:48.260 --> 00:33:51.540
W. Bruce Cameron: None in Canada, but I am going to the United States this trip.
00:33:51.540 --> 00:33:55.000
W. Bruce Cameron: So if anyone wants to come see me, we'll get the information out.
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:56.200
W. Bruce Cameron: It will be in Facebook.
00:33:56.200 --> 00:33:57.560
W. Bruce Cameron: It'll be places like that.
00:33:57.560 --> 00:33:58.600
W. Bruce Cameron: And we'll let you know.
00:33:58.600 --> 00:34:03.040
W. Bruce Cameron: And I would love to have people come out and meet me and we'll have a conversation.
00:34:03.040 --> 00:34:04.000
Tim Link: Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:09.140
Tim Link: So if anybody gets a chance, obviously, obviously a big fan and a big friend of Bruce.
00:34:09.140 --> 00:34:14.120
Tim Link: So I consider him my friend and I've always enjoyed listening to him, seeing him, getting a meeting.
00:34:14.120 --> 00:34:15.920
Tim Link: And it's a treasure.
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:16.640
Tim Link: It really is.
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:23.080
Tim Link: I will say that to get a chance to be there and listen to you and talk a little bit about books and life and definitely dogs.
00:34:23.080 --> 00:34:25.400
Tim Link: So everybody keep track of that.
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:26.320
W. Bruce Cameron: They don't dogs.
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:27.300
Tim Link: Yeah, definitely dogs.
00:34:27.300 --> 00:34:30.720
Tim Link: It's like no matter what you want to talk about, it always comes back to dogs.
00:34:32.740 --> 00:34:33.920
Tim Link: Everybody pick up a copy of the book.
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:35.880
Tim Link: It's Ripley, Fire Station Five.
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:37.780
Tim Link: It's part of the Dogs With A Purpose series.
00:34:38.060 --> 00:34:39.900
Tim Link: It's a wonderful, wonderful read.
00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:41.240
Tim Link: Everybody's going to enjoy it.
00:34:41.240 --> 00:34:43.620
Tim Link: And it's a perfect read for everyone in the family.
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.700
Tim Link: So I know an author never wants to hear that.
00:34:46.700 --> 00:34:50.060
Tim Link: They'd rather you buy four or five of the books for each person in the family.
00:34:50.060 --> 00:34:54.320
Tim Link: But I will say it's great for everybody in the family.
00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:58.020
Tim Link: So everybody pick up a copy of Ripley, Fire Station Five by our good friend, W.
00:34:58.020 --> 00:34:59.140
Tim Link: Bruce Cameron.
00:34:59.140 --> 00:35:01.320
Tim Link: Bruce, it's fantastic talking to you again.
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:04.100
Tim Link: Congratulations on another success.
00:35:04.100 --> 00:35:10.160
Tim Link: And I'll be looking forward to chatting with you sooner than later, because I know you got so much great stuff coming out.
00:35:10.160 --> 00:35:11.100
W. Bruce Cameron: We have great stuff.
00:35:11.100 --> 00:35:12.620
W. Bruce Cameron: Thank you so much for this, Tim.
00:35:12.740 --> 00:35:14.820
W. Bruce Cameron: It's always a pleasure to talk to you.
00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:16.480
Tim Link: Absolutely.
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.240
Tim Link: Well, we're coming to the end of the show today.
00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:22.200
Tim Link: I want to thank everyone for listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
00:35:22.200 --> 00:35:25.460
Tim Link: I want to thank the producers and sponsors for making this show possible.
00:35:25.460 --> 00:35:29.140
Tim Link: If you have any questions, ideas or comments for the show, drop us a line.
00:35:29.140 --> 00:35:35.860
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00:35:35.860 --> 00:35:41.120
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00:35:41.240 --> 00:35:44.040
Tim Link: It's a cornucopia, a barking fun.
00:35:44.040 --> 00:35:51.920
Tim Link: So until next time, write a great story about the animals in your life and who knows, you may be the next guest on Animal Writes on PetLifeRadio.
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:53.220
Tim Link: Have a great day.
00:35:53.220 --> 00:35:54.560
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