Toto - A.J. Hackwith
Joining me for this episode is author A.J. Hackwith. We have a fun chat about her latest fantasy novel, Toto. Toto is a modern, humorous and snarky take on the Wizard of Oz, told from the viewpoint of Toto the dog. Have a listen and learn what it takes to right a new spin on an old classic. Enjoy!
Listen to Episode #226 Now:
BIO:
A. J. Hackwith is a queer writer of fantasy and science fiction living in the woods of the Pacific Northwest with her partner and various pet cryptids. A.J. is the author of a number of fantasy novels, including the acclaimed Novels from Hell’s Library trilogy. She is a graduate of the Viable Paradise writers’ workshop and her work appears in Uncanny magazine and assorted anthologies. Summon A.J. at your own peril with an arcane circle of fountain pens, weird collections of rusted keys, and home-brew D&D accessories.
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets.
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Tim Link: Welcome to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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Tim Link: This is your host Tim Link, and I'm so glad to join us today.
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Tim Link: I'm super excited for our next guest in the book.
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Tim Link: It's just wonderful.
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Tim Link: Of course, we're talking to author AJ.
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Tim Link: Hackwith in her latest book, Toto.
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Tim Link: Good dogs stay in Kansas, bad dogs go to Oz.
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Tim Link: So it's fun.
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Tim Link: And as they say, they're sometimes snarky and witty and humorous, as AJ only knows how to do it.
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Tim Link: So we're going to talk to her a little bit about the book, talk to her about writing in general and how she masters her craft.
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Tim Link: And have some fun while we're here.
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Tim Link: So everybody hang tight.
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Tim Link: We'll come back right after this commercial break.
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Tim Link: You're listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: You know the expression, cats have nine lives.
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Announcer: Well, what if you can give them one more?
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Announcer: How?
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Announcer: With spay and neuter.
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Announcer: Spaying or neutering your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life.
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Announcer: And it helps control free-roaming cat populations, too.
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Announcer: Learn more about the benefits of spay and neuter and meet Scooter, the neutered cat, at givethemten.org.
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Announcer: That's givethemten.org.
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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.
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Tim Link: Welcome back to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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Tim Link: Joining me now is author, fantasy, science fiction, and all things fun and snarky, AJ.
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Tim Link: Hackwith.
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Tim Link: AJ., welcome to the show.
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A.J. Hackwith: Great to be here, you guys.
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A.J. Hackwith: Thanks for having me.
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Tim Link: We love it.
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Tim Link: We love it.
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Tim Link: Love the book.
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Tim Link: It's Toto.
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Tim Link: Good dog stay in Kansas, bad dogs go to Oz.
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Tim Link: So tell us a little bit about the book and maybe how without giving away too much, some of the plot twists and some of the fun that's inside the book.
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A.J. Hackwith: Sure thing.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah.
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A.J. Hackwith: Toto is the story of the true hero of The Wizard of Oz, the dog, of course.
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Tim Link: Toto, of course.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah, and Toto, Toto tells his own story.
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A.J. Hackwith: It's kind of a updated, modern retelling of The Wizard of Oz, The Twist.
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A.J. Hackwith: I think anyone who has read the books or seen the movies will find some new fun interpretations and some fun stuff in there to enjoy.
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A.J. Hackwith: It's something of a modern day.
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A.J. Hackwith: So Dorothy is a Tumblr girl who, she and Toto knows most of his knowledge of the world through watching things on cell phone with her.
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A.J. Hackwith: So they are a YouTube watching dog and have a lot of opinions about things.
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Tim Link: I love it.
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Tim Link: I love it.
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Tim Link: And I love the little caption here.
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Tim Link: It says, trust me, little dogs can get away with anything.
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Tim Link: And being the human companion of a little eight pound schnauzer, I know that to be very, very true.
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A.J. Hackwith: Absolutely.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah.
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A.J. Hackwith: I had a couple scruffy little dogs helping me write this book that were definitely inspirations along with all the other dogs I've had in my life.
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A.J. Hackwith: That's why they end up in the down occasion.
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Tim Link: That's it.
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Tim Link: That's it.
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Tim Link: Well, we always say, if it has a dog in the book or a dog in the movie, then it's got to be good.
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Tim Link: So that's the way I always look at it.
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Tim Link: So tell me a little bit about then, have you always been a fan of Wizards of the Oz?
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Tim Link: Did you think Toto always got a raw deal because he only got a few cameos here or there?
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Tim Link: Or how did it sort of all come about?
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A.J. Hackwith: You know, my mother loves to tell the story of how I wore out VHS tapes back when those were still a thing.
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Tim Link: I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Tim Link: I have no idea.
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Tim Link: VH what?
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A.J. Hackwith: And they tell the story of when we went to the Smithsonian Museum when they had the shoes on display, the ruby slippers that Judy Garland wore in the movie.
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A.J. Hackwith: And she loves to tell the tale of how I stood there, riveted in front of that display.
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A.J. Hackwith: She makes it sound like it was ours.
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A.J. Hackwith: I'm sure it was only a minute, but I think probably my, like I was sitting there trying to like think how I could like stage a heist and get at them because I was a full believer at that age.
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A.J. Hackwith: But I have always loved Wizard of Oz.
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A.J. Hackwith: I grew up in Nebraska, which is just a stone's hop from Kansas.
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A.J. Hackwith: So the farm girl going to a fantasy land was always very near and dear to my heart.
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A.J. Hackwith: And yeah, when I set about starting to write Toto, I wanted to write from a perspective we hadn't seen because there's been a lot of retellings of Wizard of Oz and stuff.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I just am a huge lifelong animal lover.
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A.J. Hackwith: But my husband should grin sometimes.
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A.J. Hackwith: But yeah, Toto was a natural fit.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I wanted to hear his voice and his side of the tale.
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A.J. Hackwith: Because you always see him, like, especially in the movie, you'll see him writing in and out of scenes and not always in every shot.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I'm like, what's doing during those other points?
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A.J. Hackwith: So I wrote the story to find out.
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Tim Link: Nice.
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Tim Link: I love that aspect of it, you know, because we're hearing the voice of Toto, because like you said, there's been a lot of different sort of reditions and twists and things to the classical Wizard of Oz story.
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Tim Link: But I don't believe I have ever heard of anything where the dog is taking control of things.
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Tim Link: And basically, as always, telling the true story, which is humans go figure, you know?
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah, it's fun because at the beginning of the book, like Toto is a little bird by his family.
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A.J. Hackwith: Like I pulled on some things of how like, you know, the gales almost let the evil neighbor take him away at the beginning of the movie.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I borrowed some of that and Toto's like, well, I'm in Oz.
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A.J. Hackwith: I'm going to be a bad dog.
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A.J. Hackwith: Being a good dog didn't do me very well.
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A.J. Hackwith: So his whole arc is exploring what it means to be a good dog or a bad dog and what his actual relationship is with Dorothy.
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A.J. Hackwith: And of course, because he is a very good dog, they end up helping each other out and being even closer.
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A.J. Hackwith: So yeah, I just wanted to write a really, I think from a writer aspect, I really wanted to write a really voicey books that you really got into someone's personality and perspective.
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A.J. Hackwith: And boy, just Toto had a lot to say once it got going.
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Tim Link: I love it.
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Tim Link: I love it.
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Tim Link: I'm always fascinated when writers, they pick a topic and how do they come about that topic?
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Tim Link: And then how do you actually build upon it?
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Tim Link: So when putting the book Toto, did you have sort of a starting idea?
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Tim Link: And then is it totally different by the end of it?
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Tim Link: Or was it pretty much on track with what you thought it was going to be?
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A.J. Hackwith: I'm an outliner.
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A.J. Hackwith: But then when I get to writing, it's always in that last, like late second act, third act part where things totally present themselves to me that were not in the outline.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I think Toto was very much that too.
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A.J. Hackwith: One of the characters who really came out of left field for me was the character of Crow, who is not a crow.
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A.J. Hackwith: He's a blue jay, but he believes that in his heart, he is a crow because crows are a bird of the people.
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A.J. Hackwith: And he has very strong opinions about that.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I wanted to give another animal character for Toto to talk to at first, because once he gets to Oz, he realizes that everyone can understand him except Georgie.
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A.J. Hackwith: And that is a continual frustration for him.
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Tim Link: I love that.
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Tim Link: I love that.
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Tim Link: So what other...
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Tim Link: you talk about the characters and how you twist them.
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Tim Link: I love the fact that, you know, J, which is...
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Tim Link: everybody loves to look at a blue J, but they are actually quite menacing.
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Tim Link: You know, they're not afraid to go into a nest and get the eggs out and do some menacing things.
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Tim Link: And I love how you put that, how the crow is the bird of the people.
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Tim Link: Yeah.
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Tim Link: That's true.
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Tim Link: It's true.
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Tim Link: And actually the crow is my wife's spirit guide.
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Tim Link: So one of...
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Tim Link: yeah.
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A.J. Hackwith: I have a very fond...
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A.J. Hackwith: I have a fondness for crows, actually.
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A.J. Hackwith: If I was wearing my short shirt, you could see all the crows I have from my first book.
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A.J. Hackwith: Crows and ravens on my first book.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah.
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A.J. Hackwith: And Crow is a fun character because he is kind of a revolutionary.
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A.J. Hackwith: And he tries to recruit Toto for the things going on in the forest kingdom.
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A.J. Hackwith: You'll remember in the original tale, Dorothy and her friends go through this forest and the trees come alive and all sorts of things.
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A.J. Hackwith: I expand on that a little bit more because they all get separated in the forest.
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A.J. Hackwith: And Toto ends up recruiting the cowardly lion through his own misadventures with the animal kingdom there.
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A.J. Hackwith: There's a bit of a coup, a revolution.
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A.J. Hackwith: There's a revolutionary wooddow.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah, Toto manages to, like a little dog, wiggle his way into trouble and wiggle his way right out.
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Tim Link: So the characters in the book, I love how you put the, you know, you sort of kept the commonality as most people know it, you know, as we're familiar with the book in the movie.
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Tim Link: But then you add a few more characters in there in a twist.
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Tim Link: Did you feel as a writer that you, like you said, needed another character as a supporting character to Toto?
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Tim Link: Or was it saying, there's some fun playing here I can do with the characters?
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah, I think it was a little bit of both, of course, would be the natural answer.
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A.J. Hackwith: I think that like some of the characters I added because I felt added or changed, every character was changed in some way.
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A.J. Hackwith: I added some characters because I felt like they had a great story to tell that was not, didn't have the space in the original stories.
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A.J. Hackwith: There is a Lady Munchkin who is a knight.
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A.J. Hackwith: She's the sister of the Tin Man.
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A.J. Hackwith: So she's got a great story in there.
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A.J. Hackwith: Tin Man and Scarecrow both get some different interpretations that I wanted to, I'm a bit of a revisionist.
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A.J. Hackwith: I loved retelling a tale.
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A.J. Hackwith: Whenever I was a kid and watching a TV show or a movie, and it didn't quite end how I thought it should end.
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A.J. Hackwith: There was a character that I liked that didn't get their moment.
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A.J. Hackwith: I would sit there and remake the story and make up what happened after the ending of the movie, to have the real ending for my characters.
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A.J. Hackwith: So there's some updates, there's some queer characters, there's just a variety of characters that I always wanted to see in stories when I was young and didn't get a chance to see.
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A.J. Hackwith: So I'm fixing that.
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Tim Link: I love it because you're right.
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Tim Link: I mean, whether we're talking about this classic tale or other books or movies, oftentimes, the characters we fall in love with aren't the main characters, and they don't get their say.
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Tim Link: And sometimes we're lucky enough that there's a sequel or something that will highlight that particular character, but not often.
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Tim Link: And I love the fact when you said, you know, stories don't always turn out to be what we expected, or worse yet, somebody has to go back and re-explain what the ending was all about.
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Tim Link: That's the one I love.
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Tim Link: I won't say the show that I was watching recently, but a day after the series ended, they had to come out with this standard note saying, well, you know, here's why we left it off like this.
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Tim Link: And because they realized, oh my God, we left people hanging or left, not on purpose.
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Tim Link: We just didn't come up with a good ending.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yes, yes.
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A.J. Hackwith: I was in college.
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A.J. Hackwith: I watched the Battlestar Galactica series when it was the remake on Sci-Fi Channel.
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A.J. Hackwith: And that ending had a lot of people confused.
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Tim Link: My wife's a big Trekkie.
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Tim Link: Of course, Battlestar Galactica ties right in with that.
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Tim Link: And we always do a comparison.
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Tim Link: Because obviously, I was not originally a Trekkie, I will say, but I've got sucked into it.
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Tim Link: But comparing the different shows, and like you said with Battlestar Galactica, the originals compared to the new versions, or it's like, okay, which do you like best?
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Tim Link: And did they come out with it because it was very successful or was it because they left something hanging on the first version?
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah, yeah.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I think that's kind of plays into my roots in the fan fiction area of things of retelling stories and giving some of these side characters their due.
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A.J. Hackwith: And yeah, it prepares you great for doing a modern retelling in a fantasy novel.
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Tim Link: Absolutely.
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Tim Link: And one of the things, big kudos for many things about the book Toto.
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Tim Link: But what I caught on when I read through it was the fact that it's for all generations, I'll say, for all age groups, you know, I'm not sure if you're originally targeting the young adult or what the target market was, but I see this for everybody enjoying it because everybody is familiar with the series.
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Tim Link: And you know, excuse me, the show and the movie and the book, but the way you wrote it was very easy flowing and fun and easy to catch on to the characters and really has a broad audience in my opinion.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah, I always write for, you know, I'm usually always writing for adult readers, but you know, I think a book finds you when you're ready for it.
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A.J. Hackwith: I was always reading books that were not targeted towards children or young adults.
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A.J. Hackwith: And so yeah, I'm just hoping that it finds the right people that need the story at that time.
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A.J. Hackwith: That's the fun thing about writing a book is you never know what difference it'll make to someone else.
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Tim Link: There you go.
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Tim Link: Love it.
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Tim Link: Love it.
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Tim Link: All right, we're going to take a quick commercial break.
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Tim Link: We'll come back in, continue our conversation with author AJ.
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Tim Link: Hackwith about her book, Toto.
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Tim Link: And then we'll talk to her a little bit about writing and her craft and also her Hell's Library trilogy and how this differs from that.
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Tim Link: Or is it the same?
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Tim Link: So everybody hang tight.
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Tim Link: We'll come back right after this commercial break.
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Tim Link: You're listening to Animal Rights on Pet Life Radio.
00:13:11.800 --> 00:13:18.160
Tim Link: Hi, this is Tim Link, animal communicator and pet expert and host of Animal Rights on Pet Life Radio.
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Tim Link: Learning to communicate with animals is a four-part on-demand workshop.
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Tim Link: You'll be glad you did.
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:19.000
Tim Link: Alright, welcome back to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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Tim Link: Continue our conversation with author AJ.
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Tim Link: Hackwith and her book, Toto, Good Dogs Stay in Kansas, Bad Dogs Go to Oz.
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Tim Link: Now, AJ., when people pick up a copy of the book, and I said, you know, it's really, it crosses many age groups, in my opinion.
00:14:34.100 --> 00:14:35.500
Tim Link: Everybody's gonna have fun with the book.
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Tim Link: It's really just a super book.
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Tim Link: What was your goal and what is your goal when people read it?
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Tim Link: You know, is there a certain thing you're saying, wow, if I hear this back from the fans and the audience, then I've done my job.
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A.J. Hackwith: You know, I think with Toto in particular, I wanted to open up the story for modern readers, definitely.
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A.J. Hackwith: If I have younger readers and stuff that discover it later on, I think that's great.
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A.J. Hackwith: I love the Wizard of Oz, but having reread through the original 13 books for 11, 13 or 11, original books by Baum before writing Toto, there's some stuff in there that hasn't aged great.
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A.J. Hackwith: And so it was fun to see, to do my own twist on it.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I think that the other thing, this became more important to me because as I was writing Toto, I had a little tuwawa mix rescue that was struggling with cancer, and writing most of Toto.
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A.J. Hackwith: And she'd ended up passing, like just before the book came out.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I remember as I was writing the book, towards the end there, there's a exchange with Toto that when I was writing it, I really stopped and I wanted to take that moment to say what I'd always hoped these little dogs would say to us, if they could talk to us upon parting or before they're parting.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I think if that can reach and, oh, hi, buddy, I got my little scruffy dog right here.
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A.J. Hackwith: If that can reach someone else who's struggling with a loss or struggling with an impending loss with these pets that we love so much and are just major parts of our lives, that would be really special to me too.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I've already gotten a note or two like that from some readers.
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A.J. Hackwith: And that's just a gift that I am so excited to be able to give, because I know it would have meant a lot to me during certain times in my life.
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Tim Link: We're sorry to hear about your pup's transition, but sort of your muse throughout the whole thing.
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Tim Link: You got you to the end and ready to publish the book.
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Tim Link: So I think job well done for sure.
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A.J. Hackwith: Definitely.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah, Mochi was a sweet little dog.
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A.J. Hackwith: And as you can see, I know this is audio only, but my new scruffy little dog, who is a little Russell terrier mix, just popped up and came in to visit and say hi.
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Tim Link: That's right.
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Tim Link: Making sure you get it right and your pup's name is?
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A.J. Hackwith: That's Percy.
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A.J. Hackwith: A very, very fancy name for a very scruffy dog.
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Tim Link: That's a beautiful puppy.
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Tim Link: Come on now.
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Tim Link: I'm glad Percy's keeping you straight during the interview.
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Tim Link: So that's the important thing.
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Tim Link: Well, let's talk a little bit about then writing in general.
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Tim Link: You had a very successful trilogy, Hell's Library trilogy, and then you come up with the book Toto.
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Tim Link: How were they parallel?
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Tim Link: Do they have any commonalities?
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Tim Link: Did you learn a lot from the trilogy that you could parlay into this book, or did you say, I want to do something a little bit different?
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A.J. Hackwith: I of course learned a lot through writing the trilogy.
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A.J. Hackwith: Toto was actually not scheduled to be the first book I was writing after, the Hell's Library trilogy.
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A.J. Hackwith: I was due to write a different book, and I got to writing that, and it was a very personal, it was an American road trip fantasy book, and it was very personal to me about a lot of stuff from my growing up in my Midwest, my family, that things.
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A.J. Hackwith: And while I was writing that book, I was struggling because my family was going through some medical emergencies to my parents, and it just got too personal and too heavy to the point that it was not a book I could write right now.
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A.J. Hackwith: And so when I went back to my editor with this, we started brainstorming what else I could write.
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A.J. Hackwith: And you know, Toto came to the rescue.
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A.J. Hackwith: It really was.
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A.J. Hackwith: It was a book that was more focused.
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A.J. Hackwith: It was one character narrating it instead of the multiple characters I have in Hill's Library.
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A.J. Hackwith: And it is just a fun book.
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A.J. Hackwith: I mean, it was just fun to write.
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A.J. Hackwith: I love that because I do have the belief that if it's fun to write, it's more likely to be fun to read.
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A.J. Hackwith: And Toto was really the relief, the safe place I got to retreat to and write when things became really hard for me in my personal life.
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A.J. Hackwith: And that's, you know, that's kind of a little dog do for us.
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A.J. Hackwith: They're there for us when things are rough.
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A.J. Hackwith: There's a lot of differences.
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A.J. Hackwith: I think that, you know, I can't resist throwing in my humor.
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A.J. Hackwith: So if you like the humor in Toto, you might like the humor in Hell's Library or vice versa.
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A.J. Hackwith: I think there's a lot of my perspective on the good guys overcoming capitalism and all sorts of other things is strong in there, too.
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A.J. Hackwith: But yeah, it was really a fun chance to write.
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A.J. Hackwith: And writers call it a very voicy book when you're deep in a character's POV and they're very opinionated and they, you know, they slant the story the way they're going to slant it.
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A.J. Hackwith: And it was a fun chance to get to write A Little Dog as the narrator, because if you look at it, Wizard of Oz is a big sprawling world.
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A.J. Hackwith: I mean, the world building the bomb did is a lot.
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A.J. Hackwith: And so there is a lot to cover if you, and there's a lot of places you can go with a story like that.
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A.J. Hackwith: And it was a really fun chance to turn on its head a little and see what would come up.
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Tim Link: Yeah.
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Tim Link: And it did a great job with, you know, I think your humor is fabulous.
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Tim Link: Everybody loves that.
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Tim Link: And I loved it for sure.
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Tim Link: And I love the fact that some of the, what I felt at least was some of the underlying messages that you were putting in there weren't over the top.
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Tim Link: You know, you weren't, you know, Toto wasn't picking up a bone and hitting us over the head with it.
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Tim Link: He was sort of nudging us along to get us to think a little bit while having a lot of fun and going on this journey with him.
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Tim Link: So, you know, I think he did a great job of sort of parallel and all that still get a good, good message, have a lot of fun with it too.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah, and I think at the heart of all my stories is like I try to focus on the characters and it was really the characters and their relationship with each other that makes the heart of the story.
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A.J. Hackwith: So, you know, Toto didn't need to knock anyone over the head with anything because he had Crow to do that.
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Tim Link: Love it.
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Tim Link: I love it.
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Tim Link: And also like as a writer, you know, you hit it on the head.
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Tim Link: You have an idea for the book or maybe your publisher, editors trying to lead you down a certain path for the next book.
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Tim Link: But if it doesn't feel right or it's not the right timing, you don't want that to come out because it won't turn out the way you expected it.
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Tim Link: And second of all, there's no harm in putting something on the shelf for a while and then dusting it because when the right and perfect time comes around, it'll be ready, you know, or it'll be set to be written at that point.
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Tim Link: So I love that.
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Tim Link: You know, I've had opportunities to publish in some of the books.
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Tim Link: I thought, wow, this one's going to be.
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Tim Link: It's not ready for that.
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Tim Link: But later on, they're like, do you happen to have something that's like this?
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Tim Link: I'm like, yeah, just so happens.
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Tim Link: Blow it off the library stand here.
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Tim Link: And I've got some frameworks.
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Tim Link: So I love that.
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Tim Link: I love that you as an author, as a writer saying that book's not quite ready.
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Tim Link: So let's talk about something else that I think that I'm ready for and if I do it the right way, which I will, the audience is going to be ready for.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah, I think like most writers will agree that writing and publishing are two entirely different sports.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I think that a writer never goes wrong by writing what they can feel and what feels right at the moment.
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A.J. Hackwith: And I think that kind of sphere on the page.
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A.J. Hackwith: I really have to believe it does.
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A.J. Hackwith: I mean, I just try not to be precious about my writing, but I try to be, you know, probably Midwestern earnest is a way to call it in my writing.
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Tim Link: I love that.
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Tim Link: I'm going to use it.
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Tim Link: Born and bred Hoosier.
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Tim Link: So I guess that's sort of the Midwest.
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Tim Link: I think they put the Midwest as anything they don't know what to do with.
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Tim Link: That's sort of in the middle.
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Tim Link: But I'm going to use that.
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Tim Link: I've got Midwestern earnest.
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Tim Link: So I'm going to borrow your tagline.
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Tim Link: Oh, goodness.
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Tim Link: Well, AJ., tell us a little bit about where people can find out more about Toto, pick up a copy of the book, keep track of what's going on with you.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah, absolutely.
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A.J. Hackwith: Toto is out now wherever fine books are sold.
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A.J. Hackwith: There's a fantastic audiobook.
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A.J. Hackwith: We got an amazing narrator for that.
00:22:33.760 --> 00:22:36.720
A.J. Hackwith: Andre on the mic is the narrator for that.
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A.J. Hackwith: And you can find me likewise, AJ.
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A.J. Hackwith: Hackwith on, I used to say all social media, but I've kind of pulled back from a lot.
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A.J. Hackwith: The place that find me the most is probably Instagram or Blue Sky.
00:22:48.500 --> 00:22:55.100
A.J. Hackwith: And of course, I have a newsletter on my website, ajhackwith.com if you'd like to sign up and hear from me personally.
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A.J. Hackwith: Yeah.
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A.J. Hackwith: And as well as Toto, I also have the Library of the Unwritten Trilogy, which is a magical library set in hell, all the books never written, all the stories never told.
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A.J. Hackwith: And the first book in that series is the Library of Unwritten, and that should also be available.
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A.J. Hackwith: So yeah, I would love to hear from readers if they enjoy it.
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Tim Link: Absolutely.
00:23:13.080 --> 00:23:18.660
Tim Link: Well, we'll get that posted and everybody pick up a copy of the book and also go back and take a look at the Hell's Library trilogy.
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Tim Link: You'll have a lot of fun with that too.
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:25.320
Tim Link: Of course, the book is Toto, Good Dogs Stay in Kansas, Bad Dogs Go to Oz by AJ.
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Tim Link: Hackwith.
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Tim Link: AJ., thank you so much.
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Tim Link: Congratulations on another success.
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Tim Link: And we'll look forward to speaking with you somewhere down the road.
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A.J. Hackwith: That would be great.
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A.J. Hackwith: Thank you, you guys.
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A.J. Hackwith: It's been a delight.
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Tim Link: Well, we're coming to the end of the show today.
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Tim Link: I want to thank everyone for listening to Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
00:23:40.300 --> 00:23:43.740
Tim Link: I want to thank the producers and sponsors for making this show possible.
00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:51.380
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00:23:51.380 --> 00:23:56.460
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Tim Link: So until next time, write a great story about the animals in your life and who knows, you may be the next guest on Animal Writes on Pet Life Radio.
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