Exploring Dog Intelligence with New York Times Best-selling Author Jennifer Holland
Jennifer Holland, an author and conservation biologist, has swam with tiger sharks, compiled near a live volcano in Hawaii and floated in zero gravity over the Gulf of Mexico. But she has taken on her biggest challenge: dithering how dogs think. Join us for this lively episode as she discusses the ability for dogs to learn, remember and be adaptable in many situations. Learn more from her latest book, "Dog Smart: Life-Changing Lessons in Canine Intelligence."
Listen to Episode #536 Now:
BIO:
Jennifer S. Holland is the author of the New York Times bestsellers Unlikely Friendships®: 47 Remarkable Stories from the Animal Kingdom, Unlikely Loves®: 43 Heartwarming True Stories from the Animal Kingdom, and Unlikely Heroes: 37 Inspiring Stories of Courage and Heart from the Animal Kingdom. She has written for, among others, National Geographic, the Discovery Channel, NPR, and The New York Times, specializing in science and natural history. She lives with her husband, three dogs, and dozens of snakes and geckos, and divides her time between Silver Spring, Maryland, and a cabin in the woods near Charlottesville, Virginia.
Transcript:
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Announcer: Pet Life Radio, this is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Announcer: They're perfectly pampered pets in Who's Walking Who in Rin Tin Tinseltown.
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Announcer: Garner great pet tips and have a dog on fur flying fun time.
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Announcer: So get ready for the pause and applause as we unleash your Oh Behave host, America's Pet Edutainer, Arden Moore.
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Arden Moore: Welcome to the Oh Behave Show on Pet Life Radio.
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Arden Moore: I'm your host, Arden Moore.
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Arden Moore: Dogs are smart, but what is dog intelligence anyway?
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Arden Moore: I mean, you're about to find out.
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Arden Moore: Our special guest today is a New York Times bestselling author and she just unleashed a must get book.
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Arden Moore: It is called Dog Smart, Life-Changing Lessons in Canine Intelligence.
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Arden Moore: Please welcome to our show Jennifer Holland.
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Arden Moore: Welcome to the show, Jennifer.
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Jennifer Holland: Thank you.
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Jennifer Holland: Appreciate you inviting me on.
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Arden Moore: I hope I don't feel dumber at the end of this.
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Jennifer Holland: I doubt it.
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Arden Moore: Because I only have two legs, but I do have opposable thumbs.
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Arden Moore: That's true.
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Jennifer Holland: We have something on them, at least one thing.
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Arden Moore: We're going to dive into dog intelligence in a bit, but we got to take this quick break.
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Arden Moore: You know the drill.
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Arden Moore: Sid, stay.
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Arden Moore: We'll be right back.
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Announcer: Time for a pause.
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Announcer: For furry ones actually, sit and stay.
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Announcer: Oh Behave will be right back.
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Arden Moore: Pause up, Pet Pals.
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Arden Moore: Arden Moore here, your host of the Oh Behave Show.
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Arden Moore: Me?
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Arden Moore: Wow.
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Arden Moore: Did you know there's up to 100 million free roaming cats in the United States?
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Arden Moore: And without spay or neuter, that number is only going to keep growing.
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Arden Moore: Not only does spay, neuter, humanely reduce the community cat population, it keeps cats healthy.
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Arden Moore: Scooter, the neuter cat, is on a mission to give cats an extra life by making it hip to be snipped.
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Arden Moore: Hey, check them out.
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Arden Moore: Go to givethemten.org.
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Arden Moore: That's givethemten.org.
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Arden Moore: And help us make this a better world for cats.
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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.
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Announcer: Oh Behave is back with more tail wagging ways to achieve Harmony in the household with your pets.
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Announcer: Now back to your fetching host, America's Pet Edutainer, Arden Moore.
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Arden Moore: Welcome back to the Oh Behave Show on Pet Life Radio.
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Arden Moore: I'm your host, Arden Moore.
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Arden Moore: I am going to get schooled on dog brains, dog intelligence, dog smarts.
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Arden Moore: I know people say, my dog smarter than your dog.
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Arden Moore: And why is one breed supposedly smarter than another?
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Arden Moore: And what is dog intelligence anyway?
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Arden Moore: Well, for answers, I am so delighted that the person that knows more than many of us, because she really did her homework, and she is a best-selling author.
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Arden Moore: Her name is Jennifer Holland.
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Arden Moore: And I love the title, Dog Smart, Life-Changing Lessons in Canine Intelligence.
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Arden Moore: So this book is, the ink is still wet, right?
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Arden Moore: Jennifer?
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Jennifer Holland: It is.
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Arden Moore: Congratulations.
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Arden Moore: What made you write a book on dog intelligence?
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Jennifer Holland: Well, I love dogs, sort of the obvious answer, right?
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Jennifer Holland: And, Shoo!
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah, I kind of wanted to, people kind of joke around about dumb dogs, smart dogs.
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Jennifer Holland: I've met a lot of dogs in my life, and just was kind of curious, you know, if you start thinking about what does it mean to be intelligent?
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Jennifer Holland: I kind of started to question whether we always have a good definition that applies outside of the human species.
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Jennifer Holland: And it just became kind of a fun exploration to think about what does it mean to be smart for another animal, for a dog in particular.
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Jennifer Holland: And they just were such a perfect subject to investigate this.
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Jennifer Holland: I mean, I've had a great time doing it.
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Arden Moore: And this isn't your first rodeo.
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Arden Moore: You are a New York Times Best Selling Author.
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Arden Moore: And you've tackled a lot of topics.
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Arden Moore: I think you're probably one of the coolest persons to be with stuck in an elevator or at a boring cocktail party.
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Arden Moore: I'm just going to kind of lay it out.
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Arden Moore: So you tell me.
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Arden Moore: This lady is a science writer.
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Arden Moore: Check.
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Arden Moore: I love that.
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Arden Moore: I love this conservation biologist.
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Arden Moore: Check.
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Arden Moore: She has many best sellers, including the book you got to get as well.
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Arden Moore: Get a double book deal.
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Arden Moore: Unlikely Friendships.
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Arden Moore: She writes for National Geographic.
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Arden Moore: That all sounds really great, right Jennifer?
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Arden Moore: But let's dive in.
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Arden Moore: You have hung out with Tiger Sharks in the Bahamas?
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Jennifer Holland: I have.
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Jennifer Holland: We went, did a little diving there.
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Jennifer Holland: No cage or anything.
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Jennifer Holland: Just right there with the sharks circling us and hanging out with us for an article about their role in the ecosystem in the Bahamas.
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Arden Moore: How did you tell the sharks you come in peace?
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Arden Moore: And you don't want to be pieces?
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Jennifer Holland: Not in pieces, yes, I was going to say.
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Jennifer Holland: They were remarkably calm.
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Jennifer Holland: We went with someone who had been hanging out in this particular area with these same sharks.
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Arden Moore: Which part of the Bahamas?
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Jennifer Holland: We were not too far from the capital.
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Jennifer Holland: We were just kind of off.
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Jennifer Holland: NASA?
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah.
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Jennifer Holland: And it was really just a beautiful area where it was fairly shallow and then suddenly deep.
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Jennifer Holland: And so you would get sharks that would come up to that shallow area to feed and to check us out, I think.
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Jennifer Holland: And yeah, they were curious, but we really didn't have any problem being around them.
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Jennifer Holland: They were quite lovely, actually.
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Arden Moore: And that's when you got out, you went, whew.
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah, a little bit.
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Arden Moore: Okay.
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Arden Moore: Brave Broad, that's your new name, Brave Broad.
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Arden Moore: You also climbed some trees, rainforest trees in Borneo?
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Jennifer Holland: I did.
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Jennifer Holland: Yep.
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Jennifer Holland: This was my most recent adventure, was in Borneo with a photographer working on all of the biodiversity in a particular rainforest, cloud forest, and chasing orangutans around, trying to get a good glimpse of them up in the trees.
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Arden Moore: Did you try to talk like them?
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Jennifer Holland: I, you know, I don't think they were listening to me.
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Jennifer Holland: I tried to communicate.
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Jennifer Holland: They didn't throw poop at me, so I considered that a plus.
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Arden Moore: And why, in God's name, would you camp near a live volcano in Hawaii?
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Jennifer Holland: You gotta do.
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Jennifer Holland: Well, as a past investigative reporter, you should know, right?
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Jennifer Holland: You gotta get out there and experience it to the fullest if you're gonna write about it.
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Arden Moore: Well, what was that like?
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Jennifer Holland: It was loud.
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Jennifer Holland: It was hard to sleep, I will say, because you're kind of lying there thinking, how close am I?
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Jennifer Holland: And is something coming to get me?
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Jennifer Holland: Something hot?
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Jennifer Holland: But, you know, these are sort of life-changing moments, I think, to be that close to the dynamic aspects of the natural world.
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Jennifer Holland: So I would never not do that if I have the opportunity.
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Arden Moore: My last favorite was, how do you float in zero gravity over the Gulf of Mexico?
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Arden Moore: I have not seen that on any tour guide.
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Jennifer Holland: Yes, this is, this is, although I think nowadays you actually, if you have enough money, you can, you can do one of these twice.
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Jennifer Holland: They call it the vomit comet.
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Jennifer Holland: And these are the flights that fly in parabolas.
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Jennifer Holland: And on the just as they're tipping over and starting to come down, you get a zero gravity experience for short stints, maybe 25 seconds or so at a time.
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Arden Moore: Well, describe it.
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Arden Moore: What was it to you?
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Jennifer Holland: It's bizarre because it's, you kind of want to say it's like being in water, but you remember there's, you're not pressing against anything.
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Jennifer Holland: You don't feel any sort of media around you.
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Jennifer Holland: So it's, it's unlike anything you can really imagine.
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Jennifer Holland: You're just at the mercy of this force that you, you can really barely understand.
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Jennifer Holland: It was, was quite something.
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Arden Moore: Now, there was a method to all this madness of me asking you this.
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Arden Moore: You're not a writer who sits in a little cubbyhole in a corner, in a New England town sipping tea, dreaming about things.
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Arden Moore: You are writing based on your knowledge and being a biologist and all.
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Arden Moore: So, I mean, when you were a little girl, what was your big dream to be?
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Jennifer Holland: Honestly, I think I wanted to be a writer from early on.
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Jennifer Holland: I probably dreamed of writing fiction first because as a kid that was more my genre.
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Jennifer Holland: I tried a lot of bad poetry, a lot of not very good short stories.
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Arden Moore: No haiku?
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Jennifer Holland: No, probably a few haiku.
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Jennifer Holland: But my grandmother, when I was little, actually said to me, someday maybe you'll write for National Geographic.
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Jennifer Holland: She thought that would be the be all end all of opportunities.
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Jennifer Holland: Unfortunately, she didn't live long enough to see me do it, but that's where I ended up.
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Arden Moore: She might be in zero gravity in heaven saying she did it.
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Jennifer Holland: That's possible.
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Arden Moore: That is possible.
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Arden Moore: You've written a number of books, but why are you tackling dog intelligence?
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Jennifer Holland: I just wanted to get a little bit more into science.
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Jennifer Holland: My previous books were fun.
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Jennifer Holland: There's a little bit of science, but they're really more heartwarming, sweet animal pairs and why do these animals partner up?
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Jennifer Holland: I wanted to do something that got me a little bit more into the mind of an animal.
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Jennifer Holland: What are all these cognitive capabilities and how do we know?
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Jennifer Holland: What is it that we're studying or that scientists are studying and that I can sit and watch?
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Arden Moore: Well, you did your homework.
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Arden Moore: You went to different types of experts.
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Arden Moore: Tell us a sampling of the type of people you went to to get some answers.
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah, I spent a lot of time with working dogs and their trainers, handlers, owners.
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Jennifer Holland: So, for example, I spent time at the Seeing Eye in New Jersey and observed how do they train dogs to be guide dogs and what are all the amazing things that they need to learn?
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Jennifer Holland: How do they get them there?
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Jennifer Holland: And I literally followed these folks around, you know, on the streets of New York, watching them during some of the training.
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Arden Moore: Well, we got a minute before the break.
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Arden Moore: You actually took a dog named Jasper and did what?
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Jennifer Holland: I did a little CI experience myself.
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Jennifer Holland: A dog named Jesse actually took me on a trip.
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Arden Moore: Oh, Jesse, my bad.
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Arden Moore: Yeah, I know.
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Arden Moore: I remember Jasper is the pooper.
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Arden Moore: Jesse is the iDog.
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Arden Moore: Sorry.
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah.
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Jennifer Holland: So I got to kind of experience what that's like to be led by a guide dog.
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Jennifer Holland: And that was-
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Arden Moore: In the streets of Manhattan.
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Jennifer Holland: In the streets of Manhattan.
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Jennifer Holland: Where else?
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Jennifer Holland: Where else?
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Arden Moore: What was that like?
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Arden Moore: Is that as scarier than zero gravity?
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Jennifer Holland: They're very fast.
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Jennifer Holland: At least this particular dog moves very quickly.
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Jennifer Holland: And you have really, you just have to give up control.
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Jennifer Holland: And it's difficult to do, but it just made me respect the animal all the more.
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Arden Moore: All right.
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Arden Moore: We're speaking with Jennifer Holland, a new book out.
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Arden Moore: It's going to be a New York best seller.
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Arden Moore: I can just feel it.
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Arden Moore: And it is called Dog Smart, Life-Changing Lessons in Canine Intelligence.
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Arden Moore: We're going to dive into some of the things that she has done to gather her information for this book, a little bit more about this amazing dog, Jessie.
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Arden Moore: But then we're going to talk about a dog named Wick and a dog named Jasper.
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Arden Moore: And I personally want you to talk a little bit about the famous dog, Chaser.
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Arden Moore: There's your homework.
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Arden Moore: So everybody stick around.
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Arden Moore: We'll be right back.
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Arden Moore: Just sit, stay.
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Announcer: Time for a walk on the red carpet, of course.
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Announcer: Oh Behave will be back in a flash, right after these messages.
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Announcer: Pet Life Radio!
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Arden Moore: Can Chaser say in her own bark that she wants everybody to listen to the Oh Behave Show on Pet Life Radio with Arden Moore?
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Arden Moore: So I'm sure she can do it.
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Arden Moore: Let's try it.
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John Pilley: Well, we'll have to stretch our imagination.
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Arden Moore: Tell us who you are.
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John Pilley: Who are you, Chasey?
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John Pilley: Yeah, good girl.
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Announcer: Time for a walk on the red carpet, of course.
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Announcer: OBE will be back in a flash, right after these messages.
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Announcer: We're back from the lot.
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Announcer: Just check the paper and we had our record showing at the box.
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Announcer: The litter box, that is.
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Announcer: Now back to Oh Behave.
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Announcer: Here's Arden.
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Arden Moore: Welcome back to the Oh Behave Show on Pet Life Radio.
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Arden Moore: I'm your host, Arden Moore.
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Arden Moore: I have been looking forward to having Jennifer Holland on our show.
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Arden Moore: This lady got a big old brain and she has had a lot of life experiences and her heart beats dog.
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Arden Moore: She loves dogs and she has written a great book.
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Arden Moore: You got to get it.
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Arden Moore: Get your paws on it.
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Arden Moore: It's called Dog Smart and it is, what's the fancy publisher?
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Arden Moore: Oh, National Geographic.
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Arden Moore: Okay, that's a good one.
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Arden Moore: Before we continue though, there's some four layers at home.
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Arden Moore: Now, I don't know about your pet geckos, but can you give a little shout-out to your two canines and what is something that they do that shows they're pretty smart?
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Jennifer Holland: Sure.
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Jennifer Holland: Well, first, I should preface this by saying I grew up with golden retrievers, wine maranters, more typical pet dogs and absolutely adore that type of dog.
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Jennifer Holland: But my husband and I got interested in some of the Asian breeds.
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Jennifer Holland: They're considered more primitive if you use that word for it.
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Jennifer Holland: So we have a Korean Jindo and these come from the island of Jindo originally in Korea.
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Jennifer Holland: And we have a dog called a Kai Ken, which is a Japanese breed, fluffy tail, pointy ears, super smart, super stubborn, sweet as can be.
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Arden Moore: And that's their names or their breeds?
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Jennifer Holland: Well, yeah, I should say these individual dogs since they really are their own thing.
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Jennifer Holland: But Monk is the Kai Ken, named after Philonius Monk, musician, and Getty from Rush.
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Jennifer Holland: I'm dating myself, but Getty is our Jindo.
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Arden Moore: So what is their best source of intelligence for each one?
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Jennifer Holland: As I say in the book, Monk, Getty plays checkers, Monk plays chess.
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Jennifer Holland: So Getty sort of the right now, he's kind of in the moment, he's a little bit of a bully, he wants things the way he wants them.
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Jennifer Holland: He's smart, but I would say Monk is the one who, who is thinking ahead and kind of planning.
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Jennifer Holland: And he has to work around the moods of Getty.
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Jennifer Holland: So we've watched him come up with some fairly clever ways, I think, of getting what he wants without, you know, upsetting his brother in the process.
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Jennifer Holland: So both very smart dogs.
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Arden Moore: Well, they're lucky to have you and your husband, John.
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Arden Moore: Now, the book you've got, you reach out to a lot of people, we're gonna name drop, like you've got, I know the etiologist, Dr.
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Arden Moore: Mark Beckhoff, he's pretty well known, and Temple Grandin, another big name.
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Arden Moore: But you also went to other people that have special connections with dogs.
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Arden Moore: So can you tell everybody about this dog named Wic?
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Arden Moore: And what in the hell, this is worse than being camping by a volcano in Hawaii.
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Arden Moore: What did you do?
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Jennifer Holland: And why did I do it?
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Arden Moore: And why did you do it?
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah, I had the wonderful experience of being on the other side of the police dog experience.
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Jennifer Holland: I got to be the bad guy.
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Jennifer Holland: You were the perp.
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Jennifer Holland: I was the perp.
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Jennifer Holland: Wic was my, well, my perpetrator, I guess.
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Jennifer Holland: And he's a very large, absolutely gorgeous Belgian Malinois, just a powerful, beautiful, intelligent animal.
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Jennifer Holland: And I was fortunate to meet up with some wonderful police dog trainers.
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Jennifer Holland: And a couple of cops came along with their dogs.
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Jennifer Holland: And these were already well-trained dogs, Wic being one of them.
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Jennifer Holland: And I got to put on the big, thick, padded suit.
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Jennifer Holland: It was a bit too large for me, so it wasn't ideal.
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Jennifer Holland: But I put it on and I got to stand and wait and feel what it's like to have one of these dogs come for me and get his jaws on my padded arm.
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Jennifer Holland: Much padded, yet still bruised in the end.
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Jennifer Holland: And just to have that moment of looking into this dog's eyes, it is going for it.
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Jennifer Holland: It is trained to do this.
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Jennifer Holland: It's going to do it.
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Jennifer Holland: But also, it's going to stop if told to stop or at least there's a German, which you need to know that word.
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Arden Moore: What's the word in German?
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Jennifer Holland: It was Los is the word that he used.
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Jennifer Holland: I think it means stop or off or something.
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Arden Moore: Yeah, that would be a word I would learn really quickly.
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Jennifer Holland: You want to know that one.
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Arden Moore: So what did it mean when you said is Wick was coming at you and put his big old teeth into your arm, but you have that padding, of course, with the suit.
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Arden Moore: You said you had Disney Princess Syndrome.
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Arden Moore: What do you mean by that?
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Jennifer Holland: I'm one of these people who has loved animals so much all my life that I want to be that person who an animal comes to with an injury and asks for my help, so to speak, and I want an animal to look at me and know just from looking into my eyes that I am here to help.
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Jennifer Holland: Yes.
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Jennifer Holland: To have a dog that is trained to not give a crap about that doesn't know me from anybody, and I am simply the target in this case.
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Jennifer Holland: It was a strange experience to have a dog just come for you like that, and this animal that I love so much and that I would do anything for and that I just want to give it a hug, and a scratch, and treats, and but these working dogs are trained so well to do exactly what they need to do.
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Arden Moore: That's the D in diversity, right?
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Jennifer Holland: That's the D.
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Arden Moore: Later on, you talked about the nose, the nose knows and talk about how much more powerful their sense of smell is compared to us mere mortals.
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah.
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Arden Moore: And then share a little bit about Jasper going for wolf poop.
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Jennifer Holland: Wolf poop.
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah.
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Jennifer Holland: It's amazing really.
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Jennifer Holland: I knew dog's olfaction was amazing.
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Jennifer Holland: I didn't quite realize how much of a superpower it is for them and just how their olfactory bulb is many times larger than ours.
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Jennifer Holland: They have, I want to say it's 350 million olfactory receptors and we have something like 6 million.
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Jennifer Holland: I hope I'm remembering those numbers correctly.
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Jennifer Holland: But it was vast difference.
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Jennifer Holland: They have many more genes associated with their olfaction.
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Jennifer Holland: Just everything about them is built for sniffing and that's how they mainly experience the world.
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Jennifer Holland: They have very good hearing, different from ours, but very good.
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Jennifer Holland: Their eyesight is perfectly fine, also a little different than ours.
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Jennifer Holland: But the nose is really the super power and we don't really, I don't think we can really imagine quite what it's like to take in.
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Arden Moore: You said they're nose thinkers.
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Arden Moore: That was a great expression.
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah, I think that's what affects their thinking, their decision-making, their problem-solving.
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Jennifer Holland: It's all about what they're sniffing and what they're making of that information and what they do with that information.
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Arden Moore: Well, in the health field and in the enforcement field, give us some examples of what dogs can do with that nose.
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah.
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Jennifer Holland: I spent time with a lot of different types of detection dogs, but some of the really interesting ones are trained to go out into the field and help find, for example, the scat or poop of an endangered species that scientists are trying to assess and track.
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Jennifer Holland: An exotic species, sometimes a plant, sometimes an insect.
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Jennifer Holland: On wineries, they're using dogs to find some of these fungal problems that they have in certain places.
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Arden Moore: That gives a whole new name for the wine nose.
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah.
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Jennifer Holland: Right.
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Jennifer Holland: Even better than the wine experts.
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Jennifer Holland: But they can really distinguish down to the species level of this salamander.
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Arden Moore: Jasper.
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Arden Moore: What happened?
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Arden Moore: Jasper was on a mission, but there were a lot of cow patties around.
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Jennifer Holland: A lot of cow patties.
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Jennifer Holland: Jasper had to know to reject all of those.
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Jennifer Holland: Their poop, there's probably some of the same smell in there, but those are not the poops that this young woman was trying to collect.
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Jennifer Holland: We really, Jasper had to know the difference and to go in search of just these very particular types of pats.
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Jennifer Holland: It was just amazing to watch him.
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Jennifer Holland: This very same dog also is trained to find certain toxins that appear in the caulking on some architect, some buildings, that old stuff.
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Jennifer Holland: Not only can he help you with this conservation story, but he can also help you to find toxic stuff that needs to be remediated in architectural, in building compounds.
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Arden Moore: That brings us to a very, very heralded smart dog that was owned by a retired psychology professor, and his name was?
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Jennifer Holland: Chaser.
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Jennifer Holland: Yes.
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Arden Moore: Chaser.
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Arden Moore: We've actually had Professor Pilley on our show, and tell us about, Chaser could learn, knew to identify by saying the word, how many, like how many items were we talking?
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Jennifer Holland: I want to say it was 2,000 and something.
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Jennifer Holland: It was a lot of words, no more than any other that's been recorded.
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Jennifer Holland: And of course, his owner worked with this dog daily on this.
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Arden Moore: And he was a border collie.
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Jennifer Holland: And it was a border collie.
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Arden Moore: And people say, oh, border collies are smart.
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Arden Moore: German shepherds are smart.
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Arden Moore: Belgian Malinwals are smart.
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Arden Moore: Poodles are smart.
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Arden Moore: Yes.
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Jennifer Holland: Yes.
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Jennifer Holland: Oh, sorry, Mr.
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Jennifer Holland: Bulldog.
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Jennifer Holland: I think those are true.
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Jennifer Holland: But I think one of the things that I investigated a bit is, obviously dogs are individuals like people and you're going to find within any breed, you're going to find a lot of variation.
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Jennifer Holland: And if you give a dog an opportunity to try something, sometimes they find that a dog you wouldn't expect of some, a pug, sometimes is going to do very well in a sniffer detection sort of scenario, just because it's committed, it's interested, it's curious, it's loaded ground.
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Jennifer Holland: It has all of these powers that it can use if we give them the opportunity to use them.
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Arden Moore: So how long did it take you to do the research for this book?
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Jennifer Holland: I spent about three years, start to finish on the book.
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Jennifer Holland: And that was while I was doing another job, and it was during COVID.
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Jennifer Holland: So in terms of my field experience, I'm actually really pleased with how much I got to do considering the circumstances.
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Jennifer Holland: There were things I didn't get to go do that I had hoped to do.
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Jennifer Holland: There was some international things I thought I might get to do.
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Jennifer Holland: But the people who did host me and let me spend time with their working dogs were incredibly generous and we made it work.
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Jennifer Holland: It was, and it was all worth it.
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Jennifer Holland: It was fantastic.
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Arden Moore: So basically, you say that dogs can problem-solve.
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Arden Moore: You say that dogs can do math and differentiate color, size, type of object, but you also talk about the hormones and this connection.
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Arden Moore: When I look into your eyes, not you, but I look into my dog Kona's eyes and my dog Kona, my Terry mix that is my best friend, looks into me.
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Arden Moore: What's going on when you really have an intelligent connection?
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Jennifer Holland: Yeah, that connection has evolved over a long time and it has really affected our physiologies.
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Jennifer Holland: It happens in dogs and in humans that the oxytocin and other love hormones, they call them, there's actually a change in those.
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Jennifer Holland: It goes up and it really tells us something interesting about how dogs feel about us in reply to our love toward them.
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Jennifer Holland: It helps support the idea that dogs have these emotions and that there's no reason to assume that we feel it and they don't.
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Arden Moore: So, what do you think, are you gonna have somebody put you on the spot and say, my dog smarter than your dog because or what's the point of writing about dog intelligence because we've gone through COVID, dogs save our tails, they save our tails in so many different ways and we're just, I think we're just scratching the surface of what they are capable of doing but what's your thoughts on why you wanted to do this and what do you want people to not say to their neighbor, my dog smarter than your dog.
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Jennifer Holland: I mean I think it's great to feel like your dog is smart and to love your dog for that but I guess my point was sort of that if you step back from thinking about things as a human and think, okay smart means the dog will respond to our commands and can learn a trick or two and that's sort of what we think of as smart and a dumb dog is the dog that doesn't respond to our commands and that stares at the wall and rolls in squirrel bones and but if you're a dog it's a different life it's a different world and intelligence if intelligence is about thriving by making good choices by solving problems by you know navigating the world that you're in in a in a you know smart way then dogs are are just as smart as or maybe smarter than than many mammals in that they've they have been so adoptable they have found this niche and filled it and you know there's nearly a billion dogs on earth so they're doing something absolutely right well i think you said the word is adaptability dog intelligence is adaptability what does that mean so just the idea that they they are able to to take whatever the situation is and make the best of it and and that's what early dogs did as they were becoming canis familiaris they were taking advantage of you know human societies and probably eating our trash and and probably you know starting to get some of the features and characteristics that humans prefer so that we wanted them to be around and this kind of back and forth sort of a co-evolution but in many ways I see it as the dogs tolerance of humans and their decision you know to step into our world and to their little human yes exactly let me come into your into your bed and fly on the foot of your bed and lick your feet and and you know this questions come and we're speaking with Jennifer Holland an amazing author and she does so much for our environment and our world when is cat smart coming out ah you know I haven't I know I know I do love cats too I am an equal opportunity animal lover there's very few creatures out there that I don't have fun this for so it could be cats could be next maybe maybe geckos maybe it's time for the smarts of the reptile world to come out so who can well I jokingly say that dogs put the D in drool the O and obey the G and goofy and the S and seconds please but cats put the C and candid the A in attitude the T and tenacious and the S and so what I love it those are perfect they are not small dogs are they they are not at all very very different animal very different working how do people find out more about you Jennifer Holland and get their paws on your new book Dog Smart and other books that you've written yeah I have a website jenniferhollandwriter.com I'm terrible at social media I think I have six TikTok followers and maybe 20 on Instagram so I don't even bother with that right now but for the book kind of refreshing yeah I guess so I don't know if it's very professionally very smart but it's the way it is but the book you can go on disneybooks.com allows you to select a store you can get it on Amazon of course that's probably the best price right now the Barnes and Noble website has it and hopefully some of the local local stores are picking it up as well so I encourage of course if you have an indie bookstore to check out there first.
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Arden Moore: And what's one thing that dogs have done to make you a smarter person?
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Jennifer Holland: Boy I guess they they tolerated me doing this book and and tolerated all the time I spent with my nose in my computer giving me the opportunity to learn about them and and and they tolerate me being a primate and being a silly primate that wants to hug and love on them and and treat them like a little human.
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Jennifer Holland: And I should know better.
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Arden Moore: Monk and Getty are very happy to have you I think.
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Jennifer Holland: I hope so.
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:24.900
Arden Moore: I hope so.
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Arden Moore: Hey everybody, that's it for our show today.
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Arden Moore: Again, I'm so honored and had a good time speaking with Jennifer Holland, the author of Dog Smart.
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.240
Arden Moore: I didn't give away all your secrets in the book, Jennifer.
00:29:36.600 --> 00:29:41.380
Arden Moore: I just did a little sprinkling to get them as curious as a cat to buy your dog book.
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Arden Moore: What do you think?
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Jennifer Holland: I hope it works.
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Arden Moore: Please go to jenniferhollandwriter.com, find out more, but she just explained where you can get your paws on this book.
00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:53.780
Arden Moore: I want to thank my producer, Mark Winter.
00:29:53.780 --> 00:29:56.460
Arden Moore: He is the executive producer of Pet Life Radio.
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Arden Moore: We are the largest pet radio station on the planet, even in zero gravity, Jennifer.
00:30:02.260 --> 00:30:11.440
Arden Moore: And our show, Oh Behave, is the longest running weekly pet podcast on the planet, on the air since 07, when no one had a clue what it is.
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:16.020
Arden Moore: Somebody up in heaven, the late great Betty White, loved being a guest on our show.
00:30:16.020 --> 00:30:21.880
Arden Moore: And Oprah, Oprah has said, yes, Arden, we like your show, but you're not getting a new car.
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:23.880
Arden Moore: So find out more about me.
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Arden Moore: Go to, I have a YouTube channel, Arden Moore.
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:29.800
Arden Moore: I have a new newsletter.
00:30:29.800 --> 00:30:31.720
Arden Moore: It's fourleggedlife.com.
00:30:32.300 --> 00:30:36.280
Arden Moore: And one of my passions is helping you help pets.
00:30:36.280 --> 00:30:41.020
Arden Moore: I am a master instructor in pet first aid and CPR, doing it for 11 years.
00:30:41.020 --> 00:30:50.380
Arden Moore: And I have a team of my dog and cat, Kona and Casey, and we teach veterinary approved pet first aid in a very fun, practical way.
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Arden Moore: So check us out at Pet First Aid for You.
00:30:53.940 --> 00:31:02.360
Arden Moore: So until next time, this is your flea free host, Arden Moore, delivering just two words to all you two, three and four leggers out there.
00:31:02.360 --> 00:31:04.000
Arden Moore: Oh Behave.
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:08.340
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