Cattitude

Matt Krenz:

Creativity has always been at the heart of Matt's business affairs. Matt's artistic and creative endeavors laid the foundation for his recent entrepreneurial endeavors and success. Matt's latest startup, BestyBnB, helps Mental Health Organizations, Domestic Violence Agencies, and Animal Welfare Organizations secure safe, temporary foster homes for clients’ pets during their time of crisis so they can and will seek life-saving services - while maintaining that vital and powerful human-animal bond. BestyBnB is changing the culture of how Social Service Organizations think about Animal Welfare and the importance of keeping Pets with their People. The platform has been launched to help millions of Children, Abuse Survivors, Mental Health Patients and their Pets.

After 8 years working seasonally for Robert Redford's Sundance Filmmakers Labs, Matt wrote, produced, and directed his first feature film, American Streetballers. It premiered in over 14 cities, winning numerous festival awards, before Warner Brothers picked up the rights to the film and distributed it in the U.S and abroad. After launching the film, Matt and his writing/producing partner, Vernon Whitlock III, wrote and produced a 200 page Graphic Novel with a team of top Marvel artist. After years of development, the comic series and novel was published nationwide in 2014/2015 by IDW Publishing - the 3rd largest comic book publisher in the world. Soon after, CBS Studios and other major Hollywood production companies took notice and have optioned the rights to produce the material.

Matt's experience as an entrepreneur and creator brought him back to Kansas City in 2013 where he joined a promising tech startup focused on the Entertainment and Fashion business. This is where he sharpened his skills in product development and technical innovation. He Co-found, was the product owner, and successfully launched an application called “Studio Fusion” - a true first-of-its-kind software, offering enterprise level technical solutions to filmmakers and studios to collect, manage, and analyze product data. These powerful mobile and web-based tools are being used today to manage major studios’ assets (wardrobe, props and set items), photos, scripts, budgets, and much more. Studio Fusion's clients include NBC Universal, HBO, Netflix, and FOX, among others. In the fall of 2018, Studio Fusion was acquired by the popular Hollywood Auction company www.Screenbid.com - a destination for fans to purchase Studio certified props, wardrobe, and memorabilia.

Andy Bond:

Andy Bond has worked in various professional roles since 2007. Andy began their career as an Attorney at Polsinelli PC in 2007, then moved on to become Vice President at Contra Software, LLC in 2012. In 2019, they became Co-Founder + Co-CEO of BestyBnB.

Andy Bond attended Saint Louis University School of Law from 1999 to 2002, where they earned a Doctor of Law (JD). Prior to that, they attended Rockhurst University from 1995 to 1999, where they earned a Bachelor of Arts in Business Education.

Zoë Agnew-Svoboda:

I turned my passion into a career and have worked with non-profits for over a decade. Originally started my career working at one of the largest animal shelters in Kansas City, Missouri. From there I grew my strength as an advocate for both animals and people and put my skills to use helping survivors of domestic violence leave abusive relationships while keeping their pets. After close to 8 years managing the Pet Advocacy Program for a domestic violence agency, I joined BestyBnB to support social service agencies and non-profits build innovative programs.

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets.

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Michelle Fern: Hello, cat lovers, welcome to Cattitude.

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Michelle Fern: I'm your show host, Michelle Fern.

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Michelle Fern: So today, we're gonna talk about, this can be a sensitive subject, but what do you do when you're in a situation where you can't take care of your pet for some reason?

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Michelle Fern: It might be something temporary, it might be something that's semi-long-term, but what do you do?

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Michelle Fern: There's not a lot of options.

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Michelle Fern: And my guest today came up with an idea that is just fabulous.

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Michelle Fern: So stay tuned, we'll be right back.

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Michelle Fern: Hey, Michelle Fern here and you know, saving cats is near and dear to my heart.

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Michelle Fern: Did you know that there is an estimated 70 to 100 million free roaming cats in the United States?

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Michelle Fern: And without spay neuter, that number will keep growing.

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Michelle Fern: Not only does spay neuter mainly reduce the community cat population, but it also keeps cats healthier.

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Michelle Fern: Scooter, the neutered cat, is on a mission to give cats an extra life by making it hip to be sniffed.

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Michelle Fern: Visit his website, give themten.org, to help pioneer a better world for cats.

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Michelle Fern: That's give them ten spelled out T-E-N dot org.

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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome back, everyone.

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Michelle Fern: I'd like to welcome Zoë, Andy, and Matthew from BestyBnb, welcome.

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Andy Bond: Thanks very much for having us.

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Michelle Fern: So Andy, you and Matthew are co-founders, and Zoë is your woman of all trades, Renaissance woman.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: Well, thanks for the compliment.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: I'm the Director of Engagement and Program Development with BestyBnb.

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Michelle Fern: Okay, now here's the million dollar question.

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Michelle Fern: What is BestyBnb?

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Andy Bond: We built a technical platform so that folks facing any type of crisis, whether it's something personal to them or their family, we learned that the biggest barrier that prevents people from getting help is pet ownership.

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Andy Bond: And so we built a platform that is essentially a confidential Airbnb for pets.

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Andy Bond: So it's like a home away from home for your best friend.

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Andy Bond: So now no longer does someone have to choose between help that they might need and the well-being of their bestie at home there.

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Andy Bond: Whether it's cats, dogs, birds, rabbits, whatever the case might be, we built a tool to help people get the help that they need while keeping their pets safe and keeping them connected to those pets as well.

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Michelle Fern: Okay.

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Michelle Fern: I heard that there's an interesting story for the startup.

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Michelle Fern: So what is the story?

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Matt Krenz: Yeah, absolutely.

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Matt Krenz: I think in May of 2019, we first learned of the barriers that pets can present to safety while listening to our local NPR affiliate.

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Matt Krenz: Being interviewed was the Director of Grants and Housing at one of the largest domestic violence agencies in the state of Kansas.

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Matt Krenz: And during that interview, she was sharing some stories about how 50% of hotline callers in an emergent situation, when facing a crisis situation, calling in, seeking help, needing help, but the moment they found out that they were unable to bring their pet to shelter, they ended up hanging up the phone and declining services.

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Matt Krenz: So that statistic kind of stopped us in our tracks, and we continued to listen to that episode and went on to learn that there were approximately 2,800 plus domestic violence agencies across the country, and that this was a barrier that so many of them were facing.

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Matt Krenz: Just hearing that, you know, Andy and I decided to take the steps forward.

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Matt Krenz: We both have experience building large pieces of technology.

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Matt Krenz: Prior to BestyBnb, we built technology for the entertainment industry, working with companies such as NBCUniversal, Netflix, HBO, building large pieces of software that were highly secure and that had to be user-friendly.

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Matt Krenz: And we just felt compelled to do something about this.

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Matt Krenz: So we contacted the domestic violence agency that was being interviewed and set up a meeting with their CEO and with the director of Brantz that gave the interview and storyboarded a solution and told them, you think this might sound a little crazy, but we heard you on the radio and we storyboarded a solution that we thought could help.

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Matt Krenz: And when we presented the idea to them, they stood up, gave us a hug and said, if you can do this, you will save lives.

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Matt Krenz: And then shortly after that, we took a tour of the facility, including the children's playroom, which was packed with infants all the way up to the oldest teens they would allow in shelter.

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Matt Krenz: And we realized that close to 68 to 70% of those children had been removed from a pet.

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Matt Krenz: That was oftentimes their sole source of comfort.

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Matt Krenz: So upon hearing this and taking a tour, we went on to meet with social service agencies across the country to find out if these barriers existed elsewhere.

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Matt Krenz: And we quickly learned that this was an issue and a crisis for animal services, animal shelters, for human social service agencies, such as mental health providers, substance use treatment facilities, groups working with the houseless and unsheltered.

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Matt Krenz: And along that journey, we had the privilege of meeting Zoë, who is running a pet advocacy program at Rose Brooks Center, which was a very prominent and established domestic violence agency in Missouri.

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Matt Krenz: And she's kind of a national authority on creating pet advocacy programs for domestic violence shelters.

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Matt Krenz: So, Zoë, if you want to give a little bit of your background, it's tremendous, because we took the, yeah, that'd be great.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: Sure, well, my background is in both animal welfare and social services.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: So I started my career in animal welfare back in 2010, where I worked in animal shelters in many different roles.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: But my favorite one was probably either vet teching or canine care technician.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: Playing with dogs is pretty fun.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: Not to say that I'm not a cat lover, I have two cats.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: So I know my audience here and I'm one of them.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: But after that, I joined a domestic violence agency and worked there for close to eight years, managing their pet advocacy program.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: So helping survivors of domestic violence leave abusive relationships while keeping themselves and their pets safe.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: We had an onsite facility where we allowed survivors to have their pets with them while they stayed in the emergency shelter.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: And then through that program, as I worked there, I also created a outreach program, providing safe placement for pets for those who weren't able to access our shelter.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: In addition to, at that time, we were the only domestic violence agency in the area that allowed pets.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: And that just wasn't enough for the amount of survivors who had pets and needed safety.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: And so I did a lot of advocacy around creating a pet advocacy program and allowing survivors to bring their pets when seeking shelter.

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Michelle Fern: That's incredible.

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Michelle Fern: Listening to the background of BestyBnb, it brings to mind, and this is different because it's a big, huge company, but bringing is Purple Leash.

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Michelle Fern: But the difference between, I'm sure you're all familiar with that, right?

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Matt Krenz: Yes.

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Michelle Fern: But they mostly do donations.

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Michelle Fern: They've opened a couple of shelters, but they really just, they support it.

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Michelle Fern: But there's not anything existing now that I could think of that does quite what you do.

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Andy Bond: Yeah, that's correct.

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Andy Bond: Purple Leash does a lot of really great work.

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Andy Bond: They created onsite facilities for agencies that enable them to co-shelter.

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Andy Bond: And we're just big fans and big supporters of their efforts and what they do.

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Andy Bond: You're right that there's not anyone that's doing it the way we are.

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Andy Bond: And we see ourselves as really an and to this crisis, not an or.

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Andy Bond: We wanna make sure that we're just creating abilities for agencies to be able to remove barriers for the people that they're serving and keeping people from the situation where they have to choose between themselves and potentially surrendering their pet.

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Andy Bond: So, as far as the team at Red Rover and Purple Leash go, we're big fans of theirs.

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Andy Bond: We're just doing it in a way that's complimentary and offers a different type of solution.

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Andy Bond: For agencies that might be experiencing a situation where they can't bring pets on site, or in the case of many of our mental health, substance use treatment facilities and primary healthcare facilities, bringing a pet into those environments just isn't possible.

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Andy Bond: So, it's just another tool at those agencies disposal to be able to better serve pets and people in their community.

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Michelle Fern: Right, what Purina and Purple Leash do is fantastic.

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Michelle Fern: And there are a lot of parts, certain hotels that are part of this, there's specific airfare that is just moves, not Bark Air, but there's a lot of other people that do components, but you have a different kind of package.

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Michelle Fern: But besides, and it's really important for domestic situations or any abusive situations, but what about for other causes, such as, I don't know, housing issues or something like that?

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Andy Bond: Yeah, you're exactly right.

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Andy Bond: We learned during that kind of listening tour that Matt alluded to earlier that every type of social services agency, whether it's advocates for the houseless and unsheltered, whether it's veterans, communities, substance use, treatment, mental health, primary health, there's really no limit to the types of agencies that this crisis impacts.

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Andy Bond: It's also impacted animal shelters and animal welfare organizations and communities across the country, because not only are they already overtaxed with unknown pets in their community, they often, before BestyBnb, were the ones that were the only ones, only agencies in a community that people looked to for any type of crisis care or pet advocacy.

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Andy Bond: And then they were also bearing the brunt of owner surrenders for people that did choose to surrender their pets so they could receive services.

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Andy Bond: And so that enabled us to build BestyBnb to be as flexible and as powerful as needed to work for any type of social services agency or animal welfare agency, all powered off the same backbone and all making it a community-centric and community-driven effort so that people in the community can help care for these pets while people are receiving services.

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Michelle Fern: Okay, while you were talking, and thanks for explaining all of that, I thought of something that could happen to any of us, hopefully not.

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Michelle Fern: But what if you had some situation that just came out of the blue and maybe you don't live in your family and you have to be in the hospital or something for a couple of weeks?

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Michelle Fern: Sometimes you can arrange for someone to take care, but not always.

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Michelle Fern: Does BestyBnb come to that person's need?

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Andy Bond: Yeah, the case that you described is exactly why we built this.

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Andy Bond: So when that person is going into in-treatment care, regardless of what type of treatment that is, if the agency that's providing those services to them is a BestyBnb partner, then they can immediately start sourcing the BestyBnb Pet Caregiver Network to find the appropriate person to care for that pet while the person is receiving those services.

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Andy Bond: And then if that agency is not, there's still a couple of ways that that can happen.

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Andy Bond: One, it's very easy and very quick for that agency to be able to create its own BestyBnb account so that it can manage its own pet advocacy program.

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Andy Bond: But in the instance that it's not, that's where our animal welfare partners can often come in.

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Andy Bond: We work with many animal welfare organizations that have outreach programs and are able to help those people.

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Andy Bond: We recently had someone that contacted us that was going through chemotherapy and just didn't have the strength and energy to care for their pet, didn't have family in their community.

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Andy Bond: So we were able to direct them to one of our animal welfare agency partners and they were able to place that person's pet with a pet caregiver while they just had time to rest and recover and focus on their own health.

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Andy Bond: And then as soon as they were ready, then they were reunited with their pet.

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Michelle Fern: Oh, that's wonderful.

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Michelle Fern: All right, we're gonna take a short break.

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Michelle Fern: We'll come back and we will talk about how you can open an account on BestyBnb.

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Michelle Fern: We'll be right back.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome back, everyone.

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Michelle Fern: We're talking to Andy, Matt and Zoë of BestyBnb, and we're just about to talk about how you get an account.

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Michelle Fern: So a lot of what we've talked about is, you know, the different agencies and so forth.

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Michelle Fern: What about the individual, if you wanna put yourself, I'm sure you have to make an account, otherwise, how do you access anything, right?

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Michelle Fern: So how do you do that?

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Matt Krenz: Yeah, absolutely, great question.

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Matt Krenz: I think the most important thing for account creation is we're looking for loving pet caregiver foster homes across the country to navigate to our website.

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Matt Krenz: That's besty, B-E-S-T-Y, bnb.com or mybestybnb.com.

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Matt Krenz: And there they can learn about becoming a foster home and they can start the application process.

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Matt Krenz: What's tremendous is we started in Kansas City proving this model and how an entire community could come together.

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Matt Krenz: And what we first did is we onboarded seven domestic violence agencies with bestyBnb accounts.

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Matt Krenz: Then we signed up the largest mental health provider in the state of Kansas at three of their locations.

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Matt Krenz: And then we quickly had two animal shelters create accounts.

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Matt Krenz: And then together, we all did outreach to the community.

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Matt Krenz: And what that enabled was existing foster homes and then new foster homes, volunteers that have already contributed time and energy to social service agencies and animal welfare agencies, they can navigate to mybestybnb.com and they can create a caregiver profile.

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Matt Krenz: So the moment that happens, they go through a five-step application process.

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Matt Krenz: The last step, they have to go through a comprehensive background check to make sure there's absolutely no history of abuse towards people or pets.

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Matt Krenz: And then once their account is created, then we've created a community foster network that all of our agency partners can then pool from when there is a pet owner in crisis who needs help.

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Matt Krenz: So if a pet owner is facing a crisis situation, they contact the direct service provider and that direct service provider, whether it's a domestic violence agency or a mental health organization or an animal shelter, can then place that pet confidentially with one of those foster homes until they're reunited.

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Michelle Fern: So the foster parent of the cat or dog or iguana or who knows what, is not in direct contact with the pet parent.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: I think one of the best features of BestyBnb is that our pet caregiver homes, foster homes, do have direct access to the pet owner or pet parent, but what's great about BestyBnb is that they remain completely confidential.

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Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: Both the pet owner and the pet caregiver remain completely confidential from each other, but have the ability to directly connect through BestyBnb's platform.

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Michelle Fern: Okay, and so we talked about a lot on the agency side.

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Michelle Fern: What about if someone has need of services?

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Michelle Fern: How do you know who's in the BestyBnb network?

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Andy Bond: Yeah, that's a really good point of distinction.

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Andy Bond: BestyBnb is not a direct care provider.

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Andy Bond: We provide tools to those agencies that are experts in providing the type of services that those folks need.

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Andy Bond: So there's multiple ways to find a agency partner, going to our website and looking at our list of agency partners is one way.

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Andy Bond: And we're growing every day.

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Andy Bond: We're currently working with 38 distinct agencies in 14 states, and we're averaging a couple of new meetings per day where we're meeting, giving demos and collaborating with new agencies on setting up accounts.

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Andy Bond: So if there's not someone that's there yet, they can also always contact us and we can help try to point those folks into the right direction of potentially an animal welfare organization in their community and then start communications with those types of agencies in their location because it is so quick to get accounts established for those agencies.

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Andy Bond: And really, what we tell people all the time is to start a pet advocacy program, it just takes one person at the agency who can administer the BestyBnb account, one person in need of services with a pet, and then one volunteer from that community that is experienced and capable to care for that pet.

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Andy Bond: And then you have a pet advocacy program.

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Andy Bond: So it doesn't have to be a big grand rollout.

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Andy Bond: It can happen very quickly and very small and then grow to a quite robust program very quickly.

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Michelle Fern: I can see that.

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Michelle Fern: You have some other services that you have on BestyBnb.

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Andy Bond: Are you referring to different types of services that are available when you go to bestybnb.com?

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Michelle Fern: Yes.

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Andy Bond: Yeah, so that is our consumer-facing portion of the platform.

00:18:31.216 --> 00:18:38.776
Andy Bond: And while we are not currently promoting that because we are so focused on the impact side, we're seeing that grow organically.

00:18:39.096 --> 00:18:47.156
Andy Bond: Pet caregivers in our network also have the ability to offer services to pet parents that might be traveling for worker vacation in their community.

00:18:47.176 --> 00:19:01.096
Andy Bond: And in addition to those boarding services, if somebody wants to or does provide pet grooming and is skilled in the art of pet grooming, they can be in BestyBnb and offer those services to the public.

00:19:01.116 --> 00:19:07.016
Andy Bond: They can also confidentially and anonymously offer those boarding services to our nonprofit partners.

00:19:07.036 --> 00:19:11.396
Andy Bond: So it really is meant to be a very flexible and powerful tool.

00:19:11.836 --> 00:19:20.836
Andy Bond: And we've seen the, just organically, the consumer side begin to grow here in Kansas City where we founded BestyBnb.

00:19:21.196 --> 00:19:33.876
Andy Bond: It's just not something that we're focused on promoting at the moment because we are so dedicated to the impact side of this mission-driven venture to make sure that we're removing as many barriers for as many pet owners as possible.

00:19:34.116 --> 00:19:35.756
Michelle Fern: I think it's wonderful what you're doing.

00:19:35.756 --> 00:19:37.196
Michelle Fern: What is your long-term goal?

00:19:37.856 --> 00:19:52.896
Matt Krenz: Our long-term goal is that every community across the country has a crisis care safety net program set up so no one ever has to decide between their safety and the help they need and having to either leave behind or surrender their pet.

00:19:53.116 --> 00:19:53.896
Michelle Fern: That's wonderful.

00:19:53.916 --> 00:20:04.916
Michelle Fern: Do you ever see at some point in the future if there was a natural disaster in one location that you would be the recognized place for people to reach out?

00:20:05.096 --> 00:20:09.596
Michelle Fern: Say if there's an earthquake in one place or a tornado in one place, something like that.

00:20:09.756 --> 00:20:12.016
Michelle Fern: It's horrible to talk about those things, but they happen.

00:20:12.176 --> 00:20:13.376
Andy Bond: No, you're exactly right.

00:20:13.396 --> 00:20:29.316
Andy Bond: And that's something that while we're currently focused on the impact side of things for these human social services and animal welfare organizations, that is something that we paid a lot of attention to and have had conversations with some of our animal welfare partners.

00:20:29.576 --> 00:20:38.796
Andy Bond: And it's something that we do feel our solution will be able to help in those natural disaster and crisis situations in the near future.

00:20:39.256 --> 00:20:40.556
Michelle Fern: Well, thank you so much.

00:20:40.756 --> 00:20:46.216
Michelle Fern: How could our listeners, the listeners of Cattitude, become more involved in BestyBnb?

00:20:46.476 --> 00:20:55.756
Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: I think our call to action is typically, if you're an agency or a service provider, reach out to us to learn more about how we can support you in providing pet advocacy services.

00:20:55.776 --> 00:21:08.596
Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: If you're an individual who wants to support your community by opening up your home to be a pet caregiver and providing a safe place for a pet to go while their owner is receiving services, we'd love for you to become a pet caregiver.

00:21:08.856 --> 00:21:18.116
Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: If you're not able to become a pet caregiver, then consider donating to your local animal welfare organization or social service provider who has pet advocacy programming.

00:21:18.336 --> 00:21:21.176
Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: And then also to just spread the word about BestyBnb.

00:21:21.196 --> 00:21:26.416
Zoë Agnew-Svoboda: The more people that know that this is a crisis that pet owners are facing, the more people are going to be able to help.

00:21:26.476 --> 00:21:27.456
Michelle Fern: Thank you so much.

00:21:27.876 --> 00:21:28.916
Matt Krenz: Zoë said it best.

00:21:29.036 --> 00:21:34.576
Matt Krenz: A great call to action is for everyone interested to go and visit mybestybnb.com.

00:21:34.736 --> 00:21:45.216
Matt Krenz: That's my bestybnb.com to learn more about how you can get involved and how you can help keep people and pets safe, connected and together.

00:21:45.236 --> 00:21:47.956
Michelle Fern: Well, thank you all for coming on Cattitude.

00:21:48.256 --> 00:21:49.956
Andy Bond: Michelle, thanks for having us.

00:21:50.176 --> 00:21:50.996
Matt Krenz: Thank you, Michelle.

00:21:51.496 --> 00:21:53.096
Michelle Fern: Yeah, congrats, guys.

00:21:53.116 --> 00:21:54.656
Michelle Fern: What you're doing is fantastic.

00:21:54.676 --> 00:21:58.796
Michelle Fern: And I wish you great success for the future and Kansas City.

00:21:58.816 --> 00:22:00.176
Michelle Fern: So hey, go Chiefs, huh?

00:22:00.896 --> 00:22:02.876
Michelle Fern: It was a great game.

00:22:03.976 --> 00:22:11.496
Andy Bond: It's been a very interesting journey because I grew up a Chiefs fan when you couldn't give tickets away and they were awful.

00:22:11.496 --> 00:22:17.816
Andy Bond: And you'd go to the stadium and just, you know, sit as close to the field and talk to the players and all of these things.

00:22:18.356 --> 00:22:20.816
Andy Bond: And now my kid's experience is quite different than that.

00:22:20.816 --> 00:22:24.056
Andy Bond: And they don't know anything, but the Chiefs just being the best.

00:22:24.076 --> 00:22:28.156
Andy Bond: So it's been an interesting ride, but it's been a nice thing for the city.

00:22:28.156 --> 00:22:34.396
Andy Bond: And they do have some players that are trying to shed positive lights and do positive things for the community.

00:22:34.416 --> 00:22:35.976
Andy Bond: And so that's always nice to see.

00:22:36.276 --> 00:22:37.836
Michelle Fern: Oh yeah, always, always.

00:22:38.236 --> 00:22:39.756
Michelle Fern: I hope you all enjoyed the show.

00:22:39.876 --> 00:22:43.876
Michelle Fern: I found it so enlightening and warm fuzzies, you know?

00:22:44.496 --> 00:22:47.956
Michelle Fern: So please check out bestybnb.com.

00:22:48.216 --> 00:22:52.156
Michelle Fern: Thank you, Zoë, Matt and Andy for coming on Cattitude.

00:22:52.436 --> 00:22:58.636
Michelle Fern: Thanks to my cat crew, who I hope I never have to be a part of, Charlotte, Molly and Dennis.

00:22:58.816 --> 00:23:02.076
Michelle Fern: And of course, thanks to everyone listening to Cattitude.

00:23:02.196 --> 00:23:03.936
Michelle Fern: I so appreciate you listening.

00:23:04.456 --> 00:23:09.636
Michelle Fern: And this show would not be the same without the magic of Mark Winter, my producer.

00:23:09.656 --> 00:23:10.476
Michelle Fern: Thank you, Mark.

00:23:10.716 --> 00:23:14.536
Michelle Fern: And hey, remember, lose the attitude - have Cattitude.

00:23:15.476 --> 00:23:21.496
Announcer: Let's Talk Pets, every week, on demand, only on petliferadio.com.