Cattitude

BIO:

Dr. Jennifer Conrad has cared for wildlife on six continents for over two decades. She is an impassioned advocate for animal welfare, who has seen first-hand the suffering and exploitation of animals, destruction of habitat, and gratuitous hunting — all of which threaten the welfare and very survival of many species. Dr. Conrad has participated in many programs to protect and improve the lives of wild animals. She has traveled to Namibia to de-horn rhinos, making them unattractive targets for slaughter by poachers who prize the horns for ornamental uses. While in Africa, she worked with the Cheetah Conservation Fund, collecting information to help fortify the dwindling numbers of this species. In Nepal, Dr. Conrad treated endangered Asian elephants, and in the Galapagos Islands, she joined government scientists treating a threatened population of sea lions.

Dr. Conrad is a graduate of the University of California, Davis, School of Veterinary Medicine and is a member of the American Veterinary Medicine Association (AVMA), the American Association of Zoo Veterinarians (AAZV), and the European Association of Zoo and Wildlife Veterinarians (EAZWV).

Currently, Dr. Conrad’s professional responsibilities are divided between working with nonprofit wildlife sanctuaries for unwanted and abused animals in southern California and administering her own company, Vet to the (Real) Stars, which provides humane veterinary care to animals appearing in television and movies. Some of her animal actors have appeared in The Life of Pi, Transformers II, The Hangover, Zoo Keeper, Doctor Doolittle 2 and The Planet of the Apes.

In her former role as head veterinarian at a wildlife sanctuary, Dr. Conrad founded the Paw Project, which rehabilitates big cats, such as lions, tigers, cougars and jaguars maimed by declawing. Actually an amputation of the last bone in the cat’s toe, declawing often cripples these magnificent creatures, both from the pain caused by the bone fragments left behind, and from the progressively debilitating arthritis produced by abnormal stress on other joints as the cats try to avoid walking on their painful, amputated toes.

Todd Bieber is a Peabody Winner and Emmy Nominee who has spent 20 years making documentaries. Recent highlights include being embedded with a militia in Georgia for the Comedy Central special, “Jordan Klepper Solves Guns”; directing the comedy improv tribute, “Thank You, Del: The Story of the Del Close Marathon”; and following the adrenaline-fueled steps of bank robbers in Beirut for The New York Times. In addition to being a Producer/Director for “Full Frontal with Samantha Bee” and “The Opposition” with Jordan Klepper, Todd served as Creative Resident at Viceland when the network launched, Creative Director of UCB Comedy when it was still cool, and Writer/Footage Coordinator for The Onion when the footage was coordinated most impressively.

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets.

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Michelle Fern: Hello, feline friends, welcome to Cattitude.

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Michelle Fern: I'm your show host, Michelle Fern.

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Michelle Fern: What a show I have today.

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Michelle Fern: Now, I've now hosted over 235 shows and I think this is the most important show I've ever hosted.

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Michelle Fern: You will not want to miss this.

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Michelle Fern: You have cats, you heard about decline, just wait.

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Michelle Fern: Stay tuned, we'll be right back.

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Michelle Fern: Hey, Michelle Fern here and you know saving cats is near and dear to my heart.

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Michelle Fern: Did you know that there is an estimated 70 to 100 million free roaming cats in the United States?

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Michelle Fern: And without spay neuter, that number will keep growing.

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Michelle Fern: Not only does spay neuter mainly reduce the community cat population, but it also keeps cats healthier.

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Michelle Fern: Scooter, the neutered cat, is on a mission to give cats an extra life by making it hip to be sniffed.

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Michelle Fern: Visit his website, givethemten.org, to help pioneer a better world for cats.

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Michelle Fern: That's GiveThemTen, spelled out, T-E-N, dot org.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets on petliferadio.com.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome back, everyone.

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Michelle Fern: I'd like to welcome my guest today, Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Jennifer Conrad.

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Michelle Fern: She is a veterinarian, and she's the DVM of Paw Project.

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Michelle Fern: And Todd Bieber, he is the director.

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Michelle Fern: And let me share with you the title.

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Michelle Fern: The film is American Cats, The Good, The Bad, The Cuddly.

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Michelle Fern: The narrative was also amazing by Amy Hoggart.

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Michelle Fern: She's not with us today.

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Michelle Fern: This is some film.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome, Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Jenny, and welcome, Todd.

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Todd Bieber: Thank you.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Thanks for having us.

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Michelle Fern: I'm so excited to have you.

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Michelle Fern: You know, I've done a lot of cat shows.

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Michelle Fern: I thought I knew a lot about cats and I was aware of what Declan was, but not this.

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Michelle Fern: But I'm getting a little bit of a head.

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Michelle Fern: Can you both share your backgrounds with us so that our listeners are familiar with your backgrounds?

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Todd Bieber: Sure.

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Todd Bieber: My name is Todd.

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Todd Bieber: I'm the director of the documentary, The American Cats, The Good, The Bad, and The Cuddly.

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Todd Bieber: I come from television world.

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Todd Bieber: I was a director for Full Frontal with Samantha Bee and Jordan Klepper from The Daily Show.

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Todd Bieber: I also won Emmy for my documentaries at The New York Times.

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Todd Bieber: That's a little bit about my background.

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Todd Bieber: I'm the director of this film that we're here to talk about.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: I'm Jennifer Conrad.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: I'm a veterinarian, and I'm the founder and director of The Paw Project, which is pawproject.org.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: We are the world's largest nonprofit dedicated solely to ending the cruel practice of declawing, which actually should be called the knuckling.

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Michelle Fern: The documentary that you created is absolutely amazing.

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Michelle Fern: It is extremely informative.

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Michelle Fern: It is so interesting, and you picked the right person to narrate it.

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Michelle Fern: Amy has that bit of sarcasm that just fits.

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Michelle Fern: I can't tell you how much yelling and emotions that I went through watching the film, because it's just unbelievable.

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Michelle Fern: But can you tell us a little about what the movie is about?

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Michelle Fern: I mean, I kind of gave it away, but I'm sure you have more to add.

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Michelle Fern: It's called American Cats, The Good, The Bad, The Cuddly.

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Michelle Fern: And then, well, let's go with first, what is the movie about?

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Todd Bieber: Yeah, it's a movie.

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Todd Bieber: Well, Jenny is the subject of the movie, and it's really the story of her struggle to end the act of declawing in the United States.

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Todd Bieber: So I met Jenny a couple of years ago, and I'm a documentary filmmaker, and I'm always looking for things that are absurd in the world.

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Todd Bieber: And my background is in comedic documentaries.

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Todd Bieber: Like I said, I worked at Full Frontal with Samantha Bee, which is where Amy Hoggart and I first started working together.

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Todd Bieber: And Amy and I met Jenny and we heard her story, and we knew that this story of a veterinarian who was trying to do what you think every veterinarian should do, which is protect animals, was instead ostracized by the very community that she was part of and you thought was there to protect our animal friends.

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Todd Bieber: So, yeah, we followed Jenny on that 20-year journey, and it's pretty amazing.

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Todd Bieber: And we're friends now and I really admired her story.

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Todd Bieber: But all of Jenny, I don't know, Jenny, you can fill in some of your journey more than me.

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Michelle Fern: Yes, and I just want to say, Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Jenny, you are the subject.

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Michelle Fern: What you have done is nothing short of amazing.

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Michelle Fern: Yeah, if you can share your view of the movie.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Well, thank you and thanks, Todd, for saying all that.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And then thank you, Michelle, for having us on the show and being an advocate for cats.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: This is a movie about the struggle to ban declawing in the United States.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Now, everywhere else in the world, pretty much it's illegal to declaw.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And when we went to Canada in 2015, the Canadians readily changed their laws to ban declawing, all except for Ontario, which we're hoping will change in the next year or so.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But when you're a veterinarian and you know something is so wrong, like declawing, which as I said, should be called de-knuckling, then it becomes a struggle to change the profession.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And I've taken it upon myself to protect cats against veterinarians who want to declaw them.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And that is a big struggle.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And I was so grateful that Todd Bieber, the director of the movie, recognized the absurdity of declawing, and yet how profound a difference it would make in cats' lives if we could stop declawing.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So his vision of making a movie came to fruition, and we're hoping that all these cat people who are listening will do everything they can to watch it and to let their veterinarians know that they should stop declawing.

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Michelle Fern: I hope so too.

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Michelle Fern: I did my own, once I viewed the movie, I did my own little survey and asked friends, do you know what declawing is?

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Michelle Fern: Do you know it?

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Michelle Fern: I was shocked at how many people did not know.

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Michelle Fern: As you said, Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Jenny, de-knuckling, but can you share with our audience?

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Michelle Fern: They're cat lovers, they should know, but not everybody knows what declawing actually is.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Sure.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So declawing is a misnomer.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It should be called de-knuckling.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It is the amputation of the last bone in every one of the cat's toes, because the claw in a cat rose from the bone.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Our nails grow from skin.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So it's not some pulling out the nails, something like that.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: You have to amputate the bone in order to remove the claw.

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Michelle Fern: So this I had a hard time understanding.

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Michelle Fern: Why do veterinarians do this?

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Michelle Fern: I mean, I know that they don't have the same oath to protect or that just started recently in the last decade or so to protect animals, like they have the Hippocratic Oath for people.

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Michelle Fern: But why would a veterinarian do this when it's maiming an animal needlessly?

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: I think it's because they think that they're doing, if I give them the benefit of the doubt, then it's because they feel like they declaw in a way that's more humane than the guy down the street.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: That they declaw with pain medications or with laser or whatever, like it's a better way to do it.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So they do it.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: They also make a lot of money doing it.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: We know that.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But I think most veterinarians, think about this.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: If someone comes into the vet office and says, I want you to declaw my cat, the vet can talk the person out of it and make no money by talking the person out of it, or can just say, okay, and make $900 to $1600 by doing it.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: I think vets sometimes feel like they don't have enough time to try and talk people out of it, so they just do it, and that's why it has to be illegal.

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Michelle Fern: That's exactly why.

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Michelle Fern: I can't wrap my head around why they would not.

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Michelle Fern: It's something that's done to correct behaviors, but it actually backfires.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: For sure.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It's like in human medicine, the last time they did a surgery to correct a behavior went out with lobotomy, and yet in veterinary medicine, we have declawing and devocalization is where they cut the vocal cords of a dog or a cat so it can't bark or meow.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: We have tail docking, which is where they cut the tail so that other dogs can't see the tail wagging or ear cropping, and then the dog's ears are always up, and that is a very aggressive stance.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: All sorts of things that we do to modify animals to make them more convenient or more scary maybe, but we really don't have the right to do that, and these are non-therapeutic surgeries.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: They have absolutely no benefit to the animal, and yet they're done all the time.

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Michelle Fern: You mentioned you go into a lot more detail, of course, in the film, but well, I know there's a lot wrong with our country, and I'm not going to get into politics because we're not a show about politics.

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Michelle Fern: Why is it that the US is so behind other countries in banning declawing?

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Well, so what happened is declawing took off in the United States and Canada in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and became a regular thing.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It became a way to supersize a spay or neuter.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It became a moneymaker.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But when the guy who invented it took it to England and said, hey, look at what I can do.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: The British vet said, oh wow, you're mutilating an animal for a few extra $100.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: We're not going to partake in this.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And the same with the rest of the world.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: They thought it was sadism.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So they didn't start doing it.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But the United States, it really got promoted by the AVMA and by the vet who invented it, this guy named Grant Meisner.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And so it became a staple in veterinary medicine.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: I have talked to vets who say that if I ban declawing, they're going to lose so much business.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But it's not true because the truth is, is that people are looking for a veterinarian who's humane.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And one of the ways that they test to see if they're humane is whether or not they'll declaw a cat.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So the truth of the matter is, if you look at vets who don't declaw, they make more money because they keep the cat as a patient for the cat's entire life, as opposed to vets who declaw, then they lose this patient because the patient is going to lose its home due to the fact that it's biting or not using litter box.

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Michelle Fern: You described declawing, aka also you said de-knuckling.

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Michelle Fern: But for those of us, so for us humans, so if you took your finger and you went to the first knuckle and just cut that, that's kind of what it would be like.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: That's exactly what it's like.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It's cutting off the third bone in the finger, the tip of the finger, that bone is cut off.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Cats have three little bones in their toes, just like we have three little bones in our fingers, and they're cutting off that last bone.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It's permanently changes the way the cat walks.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It's painful because you can imagine that when you cut those nerves and you cut a bone off, that that's permanently, it's going to cause pain for the rest of the cat's life.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Whether the cat shows it, it's harder for some people to understand pain in cats, but if you have any empathy whatsoever, you can imagine that cutting off that bone is going to cause pain.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And this is why these cats come home from the surgery.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: They go to use the litter box and it hurts to dig in the sand.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And they say, that's it.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: I'm not using this box ever again.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It hurts too much.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And then they realize that they don't have their claws as a way to protect themselves.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So they have to resort to biting.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And this is true in domestic cats, the ones we have in our houses and true in the big cats.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: They bite more when they're de-clawed.

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Michelle Fern: You know, it is true, cats are stoic creatures.

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Michelle Fern: But in the film, you kind of mentioned, or somebody mentioned, that it's kind of like if you had pebbles in your shoe for as humans to try to understand, you know, and walking like that.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: We call it a pebble in the shoe just because everyone knows how irritating it is.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: You have a pebble in your shoe.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But can you imagine if that pebble were under your skin and it was sharp and infected, and it was an amputation site?

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So you can imagine how painful that is for these poor cats.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It changes their anatomy.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And there's a reason the rest of the world doesn't do it.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: There's a reason why the Royal College of Veterinary Medicine calls declawing unnecessary mutilation.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It's because it's wrong.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It's not even a controversial subject.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It is wrong.

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Michelle Fern: I absolutely agree.

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Michelle Fern: And then the other thing is that one, they declaw it a lot of times.

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Michelle Fern: It needs to be repaired because there's still bone or tissue or I'm not the vet, so you know.

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Michelle Fern: But there's still some pieces left behind.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Exactly.

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And then in Todd, the director, he said, well, can we follow a declawed cat, the journey of a declawed cat?

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Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And maybe Todd, do you want to explain what you thought about Poor Little Burrito?

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Michelle Fern: Wait, I love this story about burrito.

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Michelle Fern: We have to go for a quick break.

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Michelle Fern: We'll be right back.

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00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:54.760
Announcer: For more information on the benefits of cat grass and catnip for your cat's indoor enrichment, visit petgreens.com.

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:04.780
Announcer: PetLife Radio.

00:16:17.465 --> 00:16:20.765
Michelle Fern: Welcome back everyone, we're talking to Todd Bieber and Dr.

00:16:20.765 --> 00:16:21.985
Michelle Fern: Jenny Conrad.

00:16:21.985 --> 00:16:26.925
Michelle Fern: Todd directed the movie, American Cats, The Good, The Bad, The Cuddly.

00:16:26.925 --> 00:16:31.025
Michelle Fern: So Todd, we followed around Burrito, who was adorable.

00:16:31.025 --> 00:16:32.145
Michelle Fern: Tell us about that.

00:16:32.145 --> 00:16:51.465
Todd Bieber: Yeah, well, you know, the story, we really wanted to tell a story from not just Jenny's point of view and her struggles through legislation and battling the different veterinarians over the course of her 20 year crusade, but we wanted to tell a story from a cat's point of view, because it's, you know, we should be listening to our cats, we love our cats.

00:16:51.465 --> 00:17:04.405
Todd Bieber: And so we ended up finding a cat named Burrito, who was turned over to a shelter and was in a kill shelter and marked as aggressive and possibly could hurt someone.

00:17:04.405 --> 00:17:09.445
Todd Bieber: So he was marked to be killed and he had been declawed on all four paws.

00:17:09.445 --> 00:17:17.265
Todd Bieber: And so we follow Burrito as he is removed from that kill shelter, is rehabilitated to the best of his abilities.

00:17:17.265 --> 00:17:23.485
Todd Bieber: And I'll let Jenny explain how a cat can do better after surgery to correct some of these issues.

00:17:23.485 --> 00:17:25.465
Todd Bieber: But they're never the same and it's always painful.

00:17:25.465 --> 00:17:30.725
Todd Bieber: But luckily we follow this really beautiful, fun cat.

00:17:31.125 --> 00:17:34.645
Todd Bieber: And I won't ruin the ending, but I will say that we have a happy ending in our movie.

00:17:35.025 --> 00:17:36.085
Michelle Fern: Okay, thanks.

00:17:36.085 --> 00:17:41.305
Michelle Fern: So Jenny, what did they have to go through just briefly rehabilitating Burrito?

00:17:41.305 --> 00:17:50.025
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So Burrito was declawed presumably as a baby, and they used a guillotine to chop off his toes.

00:17:50.025 --> 00:17:58.725
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And he lived like this for a while until the people who had him decided that he was too aggressive, so they gave him away.

00:17:58.725 --> 00:18:01.965
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: They dumped him actually in a kill shelter.

00:18:01.965 --> 00:18:06.365
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And the only note that we knew about him was that he was aggressive.

00:18:06.365 --> 00:18:08.785
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And this is what happens with declawed cats.

00:18:08.785 --> 00:18:19.345
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: They have no way to protect themselves, so they become hypervigilant and very often highly aggressive to protect themselves because they can't swat anyone.

00:18:19.345 --> 00:18:21.665
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Their claws, they don't have any claws.

00:18:21.665 --> 00:18:24.185
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And so he almost lost his life.

00:18:24.185 --> 00:18:31.485
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: We got him out of the shelter and then we pick up his story because as I said, his paws were mutilated.

00:18:31.945 --> 00:18:35.425
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And he was walking on the pebble in the shoe.

00:18:35.425 --> 00:18:39.325
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But the pebble in the shoe, as I said, is not just a pebble in the shoe.

00:18:39.325 --> 00:18:42.665
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It is on an infected amputation site.

00:18:42.665 --> 00:18:45.225
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So you can imagine how much that hurts.

00:18:45.225 --> 00:18:55.825
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And by removing those and putting cats on pain medication, we can stop them from being so aggressive and make them much more adoptable.

00:18:55.825 --> 00:18:59.545
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: In fact, we have probably done this same surgery.

00:18:59.645 --> 00:19:03.785
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: The Paw Project has probably done the same surgery on over 300 cats.

00:19:03.785 --> 00:19:14.305
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And every single one of them was about to lose their lives because of the fact that they were aggressive, were not using a litter box because their paws hurt so much.

00:19:14.305 --> 00:19:21.705
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And by doing some surgery on them and providing them with proper pain management, we have been able to find every one of them a home.

00:19:21.705 --> 00:19:25.965
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So that's the best of veterinary medicine is repairing these paws.

00:19:25.965 --> 00:19:29.025
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But the worst of veterinary medicine is declawing.

00:19:29.445 --> 00:19:30.845
Michelle Fern: It just shouldn't be done.

00:19:30.845 --> 00:19:31.985
Michelle Fern: It just shouldn't be.

00:19:31.985 --> 00:19:38.145
Michelle Fern: And one of the things that drives me crazy, and it was actually an interesting part in the movie, and I won't give it away, Todd.

00:19:38.185 --> 00:19:46.225
Michelle Fern: But I don't get why people, you know, you have a cat, you have a dog, and then kids do the same thing.

00:19:46.225 --> 00:19:48.685
Michelle Fern: And you worry about things like your couch.

00:19:48.685 --> 00:19:56.585
Michelle Fern: You know, I don't understand why people are not educated better or maybe they lie when they go to adopt.

00:19:56.585 --> 00:19:57.405
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Oh, I agree with you.

00:19:57.685 --> 00:20:04.685
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Well, what happens is they either have always had de-clawed cats and been oblivious to the problems that those cats have suffered.

00:20:04.685 --> 00:20:09.405
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: I had one time talked to a teenage boy whose parents had de-clawed his cat.

00:20:09.405 --> 00:20:14.065
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And I said, so do you think your cat has any problems in his paws?

00:20:14.065 --> 00:20:18.205
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And he said, no, but I wouldn't know for sure because I can't touch his paws.

00:20:18.205 --> 00:20:19.245
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: I was like, there you go.

00:20:20.025 --> 00:20:23.705
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But obviously, he never put that together.

00:20:23.705 --> 00:20:36.965
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So these people either push their vets to do it or the vets have it in a kitten package where you get a spay, a de-claw, vaccinations and a microchip, and that's part of the package.

00:20:36.965 --> 00:20:45.745
Michelle Fern: You brought up something interesting too because you said that about kittens, a lot of these surgeries happen to little tiny kittens.

00:20:46.385 --> 00:20:47.505
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Exactly.

00:20:47.505 --> 00:20:52.685
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Way before they've had a chance to learn that they're not supposed to scratch the sofa.

00:20:52.685 --> 00:20:57.825
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But also, they always seem to happen in people who are intolerant of cats.

00:20:57.825 --> 00:21:30.305
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So here's what happens is these people are intolerant of a cat scratching, and so they don't want to even have cat-friendly furniture in the house, like they don't want to have scratching posts or scratching pads, and then they wonder why this cat comes home from surgery and it starts peeing on things that are soft, like sofas or rugs or beds, and then this cat will likely lose its home because the person is intolerant of cat behavior from the beginning but wasn't willing to make any of the adjustments that you have to make when you have a cat.

00:21:30.305 --> 00:21:33.025
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: You have to have scratching posts if you're going to have cats in your house.

00:21:33.025 --> 00:21:34.905
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: You have to have scratching pads.

00:21:34.905 --> 00:21:36.545
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: You have to have all these things.

00:21:36.545 --> 00:21:39.545
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: We don't have anything in our lives like scratching.

00:21:39.545 --> 00:21:43.665
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: We don't have anything that gives us such joy and is such a natural behavior.

00:21:44.205 --> 00:21:48.525
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But cats do and in order to live with cats, you have to accommodate that.

00:21:48.645 --> 00:21:52.005
Michelle Fern: You have to just have in your head to deal with it.

00:21:52.005 --> 00:21:53.205
Michelle Fern: That's what I think.

00:21:53.205 --> 00:21:58.425
Michelle Fern: I have scratching posts, but one of the cats likes a section of the couch.

00:21:59.485 --> 00:22:05.445
Michelle Fern: I bought my couch with the idea that I have pets, so what's going to be the best kind of couch for me to get?

00:22:05.445 --> 00:22:07.065
Michelle Fern: Literally, that's why I bought it.

00:22:07.065 --> 00:22:09.145
Michelle Fern: At that time, there were three cats and two dogs.

00:22:09.145 --> 00:22:12.565
Michelle Fern: Now, two dogs are in doggy heaven, so we have the three.

00:22:13.125 --> 00:22:24.085
Michelle Fern: Plenty of scratching posts, one likes the rug, I don't know, and if you have cats, they scratch, you don't buy a sofa for five grand, or just keep in mind, they scratch.

00:22:24.085 --> 00:22:28.565
Michelle Fern: You don't buy a rug for thousands of dollars unless you don't care if the cats scratch it.

00:22:28.565 --> 00:22:30.685
Michelle Fern: That's my opinion on that.

00:22:30.685 --> 00:22:36.705
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Or you keep the nails short and you provide everything else for the cat to scratch on.

00:22:36.705 --> 00:22:45.325
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: The funny thing is, we've made it illegal to declaw cats in Beverly Hills, which is a place that has very nice furniture.

00:22:45.325 --> 00:22:52.365
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And in San Francisco the same and in New York City, these places have places with very nice furniture.

00:22:52.365 --> 00:22:56.165
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And yet, by making it illegal, we've actually protected these cats.

00:22:56.165 --> 00:23:03.045
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: They're keeping their homes because people don't have this stupid alternative of trying to declaw the cat.

00:23:03.045 --> 00:23:06.645
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And now they have to make their houses cat-friendly.

00:23:06.645 --> 00:23:08.025
Michelle Fern: That's a good point too.

00:23:08.025 --> 00:23:17.145
Michelle Fern: I guess, you know, if you want to spend that much on the couch and you have, you know, can get your cat's nails trimmed and it works, that works too.

00:23:17.145 --> 00:23:30.925
Michelle Fern: What about the idea that since the vet community is not always a great advocate, and I know shelters and rescues have enough on their plates, but do you think they can do a better job of explaining declawing to the public?

00:23:30.925 --> 00:23:33.885
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: I think they could do, they do the best they can.

00:23:33.885 --> 00:23:44.545
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Most of them have it in their contracts not to allow the cat to be declawed, but the veterinarians who are doing the declaws, obviously are ignoring the contracts.

00:23:44.925 --> 00:23:56.425
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: I think that what we have to do is change the way that United States sees cats and they need to see that declawing is below the standard of veterinary care.

00:23:56.425 --> 00:24:06.845
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It needs to be codified as below the standard of care, so no vets are doing it, and then it would no longer be an option, and that would be the best thing for cats.

00:24:07.285 --> 00:24:09.165
Michelle Fern: Todd, if you don't mind, Jenny, Dr.

00:24:09.165 --> 00:24:14.365
Michelle Fern: Jenny, can you share where Paw Project has been successful in banning declawing?

00:24:14.365 --> 00:24:27.445
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: We've banned declawing in multiple cities and two states, Maryland and New York, nine out of 10 Canadian provinces, and I said Ontario is poised to go in the next year or so.

00:24:27.445 --> 00:24:35.305
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: But major cities across the nation, including Austin, Texas, Madison, Wisconsin, Hitsburg.

00:24:36.105 --> 00:24:41.205
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: So I think the number of cities is about 21, Washington DC is one.

00:24:41.205 --> 00:24:46.585
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And what we found in all these places is that cats aren't losing their homes because they're declawed.

00:24:46.585 --> 00:24:51.665
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: In fact, we found that cats are keeping their homes because they're not being declawed.

00:24:51.665 --> 00:24:58.385
Michelle Fern: What can our listeners do to become more involved in banning declawing?

00:24:58.385 --> 00:25:00.045
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: Well, there's two things they can do.

00:25:00.045 --> 00:25:06.585
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: The most important thing is to join The Paw Project mailing list so we can find you when we need you for legislation.

00:25:06.585 --> 00:25:23.185
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: The next important thing to do is to, if you have streaming services like Netflix or Hulu or Amazon Prime, any of those things, write them and request that they show American Cats The Good, The Bad and The Cuddly.

00:25:23.185 --> 00:25:34.705
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: That would be very helpful because if it got on a major streaming service, then we would have it in everybody's homes and then the AVMA cannot hide their shame.

00:25:34.705 --> 00:25:38.865
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: They can't pretend that they don't know what they're doing to cats.

00:25:38.865 --> 00:25:49.405
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And I think if the AVMA were just to say that declawing is below the standard of care, period end, that's all they have to say, then veterinarians would really have to stop doing it.

00:25:49.405 --> 00:25:51.845
Michelle Fern: For those that don't know, what is the AVMA?

00:25:51.845 --> 00:25:53.865
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: The American Veterinary Medical Association.

00:25:53.865 --> 00:26:00.645
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: It's the trade association that has money to influence politicians.

00:26:01.065 --> 00:26:01.705
Michelle Fern: Okay.

00:26:01.705 --> 00:26:03.785
Michelle Fern: Thank you so much for everything.

00:26:03.785 --> 00:26:09.165
Michelle Fern: Right now, where can people see American Cats, The Good, The Bad, The Cuddly?

00:26:09.165 --> 00:26:18.025
Todd Bieber: Well, right now, it's in the LeMay Theaters in Los Angeles, and we'll be having a screening in Windsor, I think, tonight.

00:26:18.025 --> 00:26:20.285
Todd Bieber: So, those are pretty short-term.

00:26:20.285 --> 00:26:27.145
Todd Bieber: But after that, we'll be hopefully, like Jenny said, coming to a Netflix near you or one of the other streaming services.

00:26:27.385 --> 00:26:37.605
Todd Bieber: But the best way to keep up with it is to, like Jenny said, go to The Paw Project or go to, if you're on Instagram, at AmericanCatsDoc.

00:26:37.605 --> 00:26:41.725
Todd Bieber: That's at symbol AmericanCatsDoc, D-O-C.

00:26:41.725 --> 00:26:42.105
Michelle Fern: Okay.

00:26:42.105 --> 00:26:43.245
Michelle Fern: And again, Dr.

00:26:43.245 --> 00:26:47.565
Michelle Fern: Jenny, where can people find out more about The Paw Project?

00:26:47.565 --> 00:26:56.565
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: The best way is pawproject.org or on our social media, which is at Paw Project or at The Paw Project.

00:26:56.845 --> 00:27:00.785
Dr. Jennifer Conrad: And you'll know it's us by the fact that it's all about declawing.

00:27:00.785 --> 00:27:07.285
Michelle Fern: I want to thank you both so much for creating this movie and educating the public on declawing.

00:27:07.285 --> 00:27:09.945
Michelle Fern: Thank you so much for coming on Cattitude.

00:27:09.945 --> 00:27:12.825
Michelle Fern: I hope this gets to Netflix or another streaming service.

00:27:12.825 --> 00:27:15.585
Michelle Fern: It's so good and it's so informative.

00:27:15.585 --> 00:27:17.605
Michelle Fern: So thank you so much.

00:27:17.605 --> 00:27:18.945
Todd Bieber: Thank you.

00:27:18.945 --> 00:27:20.885
Michelle Fern: I hope you all enjoyed this show.

00:27:20.885 --> 00:27:24.805
Michelle Fern: I think it's one of the most important Cattitude shows I have ever done.

00:27:25.365 --> 00:27:27.845
Michelle Fern: Please be sure to check out pawproject.org.

00:27:29.105 --> 00:27:36.165
Michelle Fern: Also, as you know, you can go to Pet Life Radio, go to Cattitude and the show page for this episode.

00:27:36.165 --> 00:27:41.685
Michelle Fern: We'll have the link as well and some information about The Paw Project.

00:27:41.685 --> 00:27:42.945
Michelle Fern: I want to thank Dr.

00:27:42.945 --> 00:27:46.785
Michelle Fern: Jenny Conrad and Todd Bieber for coming on Cattitude.

00:27:46.785 --> 00:27:49.485
Michelle Fern: I want to thank my cats that all have their claws.

00:27:49.485 --> 00:27:51.445
Michelle Fern: Thank you, Dennis, Charlotte and Molly.

00:27:51.905 --> 00:27:55.205
Michelle Fern: Thanks to my audience for listening to Cattitude.

00:27:55.205 --> 00:27:57.265
Michelle Fern: I appreciate you so much.

00:27:57.265 --> 00:27:59.065
Michelle Fern: You guys are amazing.

00:27:59.065 --> 00:28:01.265
Michelle Fern: So thank you for your loyalty.

00:28:01.265 --> 00:28:02.345
Michelle Fern: I appreciate it.

00:28:02.345 --> 00:28:09.585
Michelle Fern: And of course, thank you to my producer, Mark Winter, for working his magic and making this show sound so great.

00:28:09.585 --> 00:28:13.925
Michelle Fern: And remember, lose the attitude, have cattitude.

00:28:13.925 --> 00:28:19.965
Announcer: Let's talk pets every week on demand, only on petliferadio.com.