Cattitude

BIO:

Justine A. Lee, DVM, DACVECC, DABT is the CEO and founder of VETgirl, a subscription-based podcast service offering RACE-approved continuing education. She is a board-certified veterinary specialist in both emergency critical care (DACVECC) and toxicologist (DABT). Currently, she works as a criticalist at Animal Emergency & Referral Center of Minnesota, and is a consultant for ELEVATE DVM, ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center, and several other veterinary companies. Previously, she was the Associate Director of Veterinary Services for an Animal Poison Control Center in Minneapolis (2013-2009) and on faculty at the University of Minnesota Veterinary Medical Center (2003-2008).

Dr. Lee graduated from Virginia Tech with a BS in Animal Sciences, and then obtained her veterinary degree at Cornell University. She pursued her internship at Angell Memorial Animal Hospital, which is affiliated with the MSPCA. In addition, she has also completed an emergency fellowship and residency at the University of Pennsylvania.

Currently, she is 1 of approximately 450 board-certified veterinary specialists world wide in emergency and critical care, and is a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care (DACVECC). Dr. Lee is also a Diplomate of the American Board of Toxicology (DABT). Dr. Lee has been published in numerous veterinary journals, including the Journal of American Veterinary Medical Association, the Journal of Veterinary Emergency Critical Care, the Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine, and the Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association. Dr. Lee is one of the editors and primary authors of Blackwell’s Five-Minute Veterinary Consult Clinical Companion: Small Animal Toxicology textbook. She is also one of the editors for the Veterinary Clinics of North America: Emergency Medicine textbook (Elsevier, 2013).

Dr. Lee is the author of two humorous pet reference books entitled It’s a Dog’s Life…but It’s Your Carpet and It’s a Cat’s World . . . You Just Live in It. She has also published several veterinary book chapters, and has been aired on radio and television to promote preventative medicine, animal health, and the overall well-being of pets. Dr. Lee is the former contributor/blogger to Prevention magazine, PetMD: The Daily Vet, and Pet Health Network. She currently blogs for Voyce, a wellness monitor collar for dogs. Dr. Lee has been featured on NBC Weekend Today, The Rachael Ray Show, WCCO, Minnesota Public Radio, and various other TV and radio engagements.  Dr. Lee lectures throughout the world on emergency, critical care, and toxicology and was recently honored with the North American Veterinary Conference Small Animal Speaker of the Year(in both 2011 and 2015) and the Association des Médecines Vétérinaires du Québec (2012). When Dr. Lee is not working in the ER, she is playing ultimate Frisbee or ice hockey, hiking with her new puppy, traveling, running, gardening, or reading. Dr. Lee’s three kids include:

• • A rescued grey and white tabby cat (abandoned with head trauma) named after a former Bostonian-Irish-owned patient, “Seamus”
• • A rescued tortie cat named “Lily”
• • A rescued pit bull mix named “Milo”

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Let's talk pets.

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Michelle Fern: Hello, feline friends.

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Michelle Fern: This is Michelle Fern, your host on Cattitude.

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Michelle Fern: You know, we're right near the holiday season of 2020, this crazy year, and there's so many things you need to know to keep your cats safe during the holidays.

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Michelle Fern: And I have with me an amazing guest.

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Michelle Fern: We're gonna talk all about it.

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Michelle Fern: We'll be right back.

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Michelle Fern: Hey, Michelle Fern here, and you know saving cats is near and dear to my heart.

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Michelle Fern: Did you know that there is an estimated 70 to 100 million free roaming cats in the United States?

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Michelle Fern: And without spay neuter, that number will keep growing.

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Michelle Fern: Not only does spay neuter mainly reduce the community cat population, but it also keeps cats healthier.

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Michelle Fern: Scooter, the neutered cat, is on a mission to give cats an extra life by making it hip to be sniffed.

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Michelle Fern: Visit his website, givethemten.org, to help pioneer a better world for cats.

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Michelle Fern: That's GiveThemTen, spelled out T-E-N dot org.

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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome back, everyone.

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Michelle Fern: I have with me today Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Justine Lee.

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Michelle Fern: She is an ER Vet, a toxicologist, and the host of our very popular, amazing show, ER Vet.

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Michelle Fern: Welcome, Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Justine.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Thank you so much for having me on the show.

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Michelle Fern: I'm so glad to have you.

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Michelle Fern: Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Justine, you know, people have a lot of things around their house, whether it's holiday time or not, that might pose a really critical danger, maybe toxic or just get your cat really sick, that they might not be aware of.

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Michelle Fern: What are some of these things that you can think of?

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Dr. Justine Lee: Yeah, so I will say as an emergency critical care veterinary specialist, the veterinary ER is so busy during the holidays, and especially with COVID and curbside and everyone being stressed out, the last thing you want to do is visit the ER Vet with your dog or cat.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now, I will say when it comes to cats, the majority of plants out there generally just cause vomiting and diarrhea.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But if you have a cat, you absolutely cannot bring Easter lilies into the household.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I know you're thinking, that's an Easter lily, it's holiday time in December, but we still see poisoning.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So people are bringing in bouquets, maybe they have family visiting, they don't know how to cat pet proof.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So you always want to avoid bringing in any true lily, like a lilium or hemorrhagalis.

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Dr. Justine Lee: These are true lilies, they have a huge bloom, it's usually four to five inches wide, they smell really good.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But unfortunately, they're the number one plant that I see florists putting into flower bouquets.

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Dr. Justine Lee: My husband bought me a bouquet, he called the florist and he said, hey, I can't have any lilies, we have cats in the house, it has to be cat friendly, and it still showed up with lilies.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So they use even the greens as part of the bouquet.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So you want to make sure never to bring any type of bouquet into the household, unless you are positive there are absolutely no Easter lilies.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The other important thing is people way over hype the dangers of poinsettias.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Poinsettias are not a big deal.

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Dr. Justine Lee: In fact, you are totally welcome to bring them into the household.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The likelihood your cat or dog are gonna chew on them are so rare.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now, if you've ever broken the leaf of a poinsettia, you'll notice there's that sticky milky white sap.

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Dr. Justine Lee: That's what's poisonous.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And honestly, it's not a big deal.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's just gonna cause a little bit of drooling, little bit of oral irritation.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The bigger dangers again are Easter lilies.

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Michelle Fern: What about other bouquets, other types of plants, because a lot of people during the holidays will bring plants as a gift.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Yeah, that's a great question, Michelle.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I would say the holiday-related ones like Christmas Cactus or Mistletoe, Holly.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Most cats aren't even gonna touch those.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Like Mistletoe and Holly, they're really pokey, especially Holly.

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Dr. Justine Lee: They have a really thick, waxy leaf with sharp little ends.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So most cats aren't gonna touch that.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Mistletoe hopefully will be hung out of reach.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now, there are a couple of different types of Mistletoe that are out there.

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Dr. Justine Lee: They generally just result in drooling, vomiting, and diarrhea.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So again, not that big of a deal.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Again, it's gonna be those true lilies that are in those fresh-cut bouquets that can actually cause acute kidney injury in cats.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Not a big deal for dogs.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But as little as two or three leaves, even the water in the vase or the pollen can result in poisoning in cats.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So again, you always want to be careful bringing in those bouquets.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now, I will say the other things in bouquets are usually things like irises and Gerber daisies and carnations and roses.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Those honestly are not gonna be a big deal at all.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Maybe they have Peruvian lilies.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now, that's got the word lily in it, but those are true lilies.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Those have a tiny bloom.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Those are only about an inch to an inch and a half in terms of the size of the bloom itself.

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Dr. Justine Lee: That's not a true lily.

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Dr. Justine Lee: That's not gonna cause kidney failure.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Again, that's just gonna cause some vomiting and diarrhea.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's those big blooms or those beautiful lilies that we worry about the most.

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Michelle Fern: Okay.

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Michelle Fern: What are some things during the holidays that we might have out that we wouldn't have during the year that are just extreme no-nos?

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Michelle Fern: I know we talked before about potpourri, but that would be a good thing to mention for people that didn't hear that other interview.

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Michelle Fern: That was really good.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Sure.

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Michelle Fern: There's, you know, you know how it is during the holidays, people tend to bring things out that they might have stored otherwise, gloss objects or just different decorations, and they might not think, wow, I have a cat.

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Michelle Fern: This should not be there.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Yes.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Well, I will say if you have a cat and you have a live tree, you have to make sure that thing is really well-secured.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So even if you have an artificial tree, cats are less curious about that because they don't have the evergreen smell coming out of it.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But the first thing you want to do is if you're bringing a Christmas tree into the household and it's a live one, you want to make sure that you secure it really well.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So use some type of wire or really thick fishing line to anchor the Christmas tree to the ceiling through a hook.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You want to make sure it's really well-secured so it doesn't tip over.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Because you know what your cat's going to do?

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Dr. Justine Lee: He's going to climb up the tree trunk.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now, I will say a lot of people get really paranoid about when they add water into the holiday Christmas tree holder.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And honestly, it's probably not a huge deal if your cat takes one or two licks.

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Dr. Justine Lee: There are some fungicides, some plant fertilizers that are sometimes leeching out of the tree that may go into the water.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So my easy tip is cats hate aluminum foil.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You always want to fill that little bowl with water so your tree lives in it, so it's getting some water.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But don't let your cat drink out of it, or your dog.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Just wrap it and surround it with some aluminum foil, and that will keep it safe.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So again, not a big deal if your cat drinks the water.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So make sure that tree is secured.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The biggest danger I see is actually tinsel.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now, if you want to put a bunch of ornaments on the Christmas tree, that's not a big deal.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now, if you have really playful kittens, you obviously want to use common sense.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Like avoid the ones made out of glass that can fall, that can cut a pet's paw.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Most people usually have the plastic ones or the metal ones, so not a big deal.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But the danger, tinsel.

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Dr. Justine Lee: If you have a cat in the household, absolutely no tinsel at all.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Cats are so curious.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So that tinsel that's hanging off that Christmas tree, it looks like a shiny, fun toy to them, right?

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Dr. Justine Lee: They've never seen it before.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So they're going to bat it around, they're going to swallow it.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And unfortunately, tinsel is really, really dangerous.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Same exact thing with ribbons on holiday presents.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Please, if you have cats, no ribbons, no yarn, no string, no tinsel at all.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And that's because it results in a linear form body.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Unfortunately, that linear stringy material ends up getting wrapped around the base of the tongue.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And it's really hard to see, but as it slides into the esophagus, into the stomach, into the intestines, and it's anchored at one point, it actually saws through your pet's intestines, and it can result in a severe life-threatening infection.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Unfortunately, to treat a linear form body, you need to do x-rays, you need to put an IV catheter in, you need to start that pet on aggressive IV fluids, an anti-vomiting medication, you may need to do an ultrasound, and then you need emergency surgery.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So this typically can cost anywhere between $3,000 to $5,000.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So you want to save your holiday bonus.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Instead of spending it on an emergency surgery, the easier thing is just keep that Tinsel at a reach to begin with.

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Michelle Fern: Dr.

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Michelle Fern: Justine, I have a question.

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Michelle Fern: Do you think this affects, I know we're talking, we're cats, we're all about cats, but some people have cats, have dogs.

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Michelle Fern: Does Tinsel and Ribbons, do those affect dogs as well?

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Michelle Fern: Or it's not a big deal, dogs aren't that interested?

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Dr. Justine Lee: Yeah, that's a great question, Michelle.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I will say in my 20 plus years of being a vet, I have seen the occasional dog have a linear foreign body, but honestly, some of the younger listeners aren't going to know why, and it's because of cassette tapes, which they're like, what's a cassette tape?

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Dr. Justine Lee: Right?

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Dr. Justine Lee: So cassette tapes, if a dog chews on an old cassette tape, that brown material is really, really thin, and it can cut into the stomach and intestines really easily.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So I've only ever seen it with long strands of carpet that are really stringy and cassette tape.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Definitely more of a cat problem.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So again, linear foreign bodies are more common in cats.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Dogs are more likely to get foreign bodies, like they're going to eat big box or underwear, or a hand towel, or a lot of rocks, or two pounds of kitty litter.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But they generally don't chew on tinsely or ribbon-like things.

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Dr. Justine Lee: That said, it can still happen.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's more of a cat thing, but you still want to keep all that linear stringy material out of reach.

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Michelle Fern: Okay, I have another question.

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Michelle Fern: What about if people are using paper strands, maybe their little child made, as a substitute?

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Michelle Fern: Is that going to be as much of an issue with cats, or cats not going to be as attracted to it as much?

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Dr. Justine Lee: That is also a great question.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So if you are, say, stuck in COVID quarantine and you're trying to think of arts and crafts for your kid, and you want to time them with holiday decorations, I'm going to say, you know, when people will cut strips of construction paper and make them into loops and then decorate the tree, that is totally fine because that construction paper or paper is going to break down really easily when a dog chews into it.

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Dr. Justine Lee: The danger, say you decide to do a big strand of popcorn or Cheerios as some type of fake tinsel or fake Christmas decoration, that can result in an issue because now your pet's like, oh, there's food on the tree that I can chew on, and they're going to chew that string too.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So I'm going to say when in doubt, you want to make sure that it's in an area where your dog and cat can't chew into it.

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Dr. Justine Lee: When in doubt, it's probably safer to use construction paper loops to decorate the Christmas tree instead of actually using food.

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Michelle Fern: Maybe you can make a fence of aluminum foil, so your cat does-

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Dr. Justine Lee: That's right.

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Dr. Justine Lee: That's right.

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Michelle Fern: I've never heard of that though.

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Michelle Fern: I know it's going off on its side, but why don't cats like aluminum foil?

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's probably because it's shiny, and you would think that they're attracted to shiny things like tinsel, but for some reason, I don't think they like the crinkling sensation when they walk on it.

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Michelle Fern: So make a carpet of aluminum foil around your tree.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Well, some people will actually like if you have a cat that's scratching on their furniture, especially on the vertical surface of a sofa.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Some people will use double-sided tape or they'll just tape some aluminum foil because cats don't like that sensation.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Thankfully, it can be used as a deterrent for cats.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I personally just wrapped the Christmas tree cloth all the way around so my cat can't get to it.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Honestly, I've never had a problem having pets in a household with a Christmas tree.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But again, I never used tinsel.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I should mention, Michelle, that one uncommon poison that's related to the holidays that a lot of people don't think about, is handmade holiday ornaments.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now, everyone's really into arts and crafts right now because we're all super bored during COVID.

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Dr. Justine Lee: When people make handmade holiday ornaments, this is a very similar recipe to homemade Play-Doh.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And the reason why it's poisonous, and this is more poisonous in dogs than cats, but it's basically made of food coloring, a ton of salt, and a little bit of flour.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And so people will make this as an arts and crafts project.

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Dr. Justine Lee: When a dog chews into that, it can actually result in salt poisoning.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And salt can actually cause really perfuse vomiting, even bloody vomiting.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And it can result in a life-threatening elevation in the sodium level.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So if you're going to make a handmade holiday ornament, please make sure your dog doesn't chew into this.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I'm talking to all you Labrador Retriever owners out there, because Labradors love to get into things.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So when in doubt, there's definitely a lot of holiday dangers that we want to keep away.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So again, things like tinsel, things like popcorn on a string, those homemade holiday ornaments, anything that's ribbony, anything that has yarn you want to keep out of reach.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And I always tell people, use common sense.

00:13:57.837 --> 00:14:08.117
Dr. Justine Lee: Your dog has such a good sense of smell, of course he's going to smell those delicious chocolate covered espresso beans or those chocolate covered macadamia nuts, and he's going to chew into them.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And not only is the chocolate poisonous, but the macadamia nuts are poisonous too, or the coffee beans are poisonous.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So when in doubt, no food presents under the tree.

00:14:17.317 --> 00:14:25.957
Michelle Fern: Well, okay, we're going to take a short break and come back and talk a little more about some toxins that are toxic for your cat during the holidays.

00:14:30.057 --> 00:14:34.057
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00:15:27.537 --> 00:15:36.397
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00:15:44.937 --> 00:15:46.037
Announcer: Let's Talk Pets.

00:15:46.037 --> 00:15:46.957
Announcer: Let's Talk Pets.

00:15:46.957 --> 00:15:48.017
Announcer: On Pet Life Radio.

00:15:48.017 --> 00:15:49.317
Announcer: Pet Life Radio.

00:15:49.317 --> 00:15:51.497
Announcer: petliferadio.com.

00:16:02.264 --> 00:16:04.444
Michelle Fern: Welcome back everyone, we're talking to Dr.

00:16:04.444 --> 00:16:09.044
Michelle Fern: Justine Lee, and if you have not checked out her show, me too.

00:16:09.044 --> 00:16:16.604
Michelle Fern: It's ER Vet, and she is a toxicologist, she is an ER Vet, and she has a wealth of information.

00:16:16.604 --> 00:16:21.404
Michelle Fern: We're gonna talk a little more about some dangers during holidays and about CBD.

00:16:21.404 --> 00:16:22.164
Michelle Fern: So Dr.

00:16:22.164 --> 00:16:29.084
Michelle Fern: Justine, I have a question for you, and this has come up, I think it's rare, but what about gifts?

00:16:29.544 --> 00:16:35.144
Michelle Fern: Like, I've heard about cats getting into alcohol, and dogs getting into alcohol.

00:16:35.144 --> 00:16:39.924
Michelle Fern: I would think that's rare, but there's all kinds of things that happen.

00:16:39.924 --> 00:16:43.444
Michelle Fern: Is that likely, or is that just very unusual?

00:16:43.444 --> 00:16:52.904
Dr. Justine Lee: You know, there are some unusual poisons that I will see in dogs and cats during the holidays, and so you're right, things like alcohol poisoning are one of them.

00:16:52.904 --> 00:17:03.684
Dr. Justine Lee: Now, most dog and cat owners know not to give alcohol to their pets, but they forget about an unusual source of alcohol, and it's actually unbaked bread dough.

00:17:03.684 --> 00:17:10.624
Dr. Justine Lee: So for all you people who have sourdough kits out there right now, and you're baking and you're getting ready for the holidays, you want to pay attention.

00:17:10.624 --> 00:17:26.424
Dr. Justine Lee: Because during the holidays, a lot of people are baking more, and anything that has yeast inside and isn't baked, if your dog grabs a piece of that unbaked bread dough, what ends up happening is even if your dog grabs a small amount, it's going to expand in the stomach.

00:17:26.684 --> 00:17:31.804
Dr. Justine Lee: Now remember, the dog's stomach is going to be warm and moist with gastric fluid.

00:17:31.804 --> 00:17:34.364
Dr. Justine Lee: So it's almost going to act as an artificial oven.

00:17:34.364 --> 00:17:38.204
Dr. Justine Lee: When that happens, you're going to have the sugar being metabolized.

00:17:38.204 --> 00:17:43.364
Dr. Justine Lee: You're going to end up having the yeast rise and produce carbon dioxide.

00:17:43.364 --> 00:17:52.264
Dr. Justine Lee: That's going to result in gas accumulation within the stomach, which can actually result in a life-threatening gastric dilatation volvulus, what we call a GDV.

00:17:52.264 --> 00:18:10.144
Dr. Justine Lee: Now in a previous episode of ER Vet, I talked about the dangers of GDV and what you need to know about, especially for all you standard poodle owners, German Shepherd owners, Golden Retriever owners, Labrador Retriever owners, Great Danes, Irish Whale Pounds, and any big breed that has a really, really deep chest.

00:18:10.144 --> 00:18:15.324
Dr. Justine Lee: We know that with GDV, it's because too much gas is in the stomach and it makes the stomach turn.

00:18:15.324 --> 00:18:23.864
Dr. Justine Lee: Well, same exact thing can happen with alcohol poisoning and with gas accumulation from ingesting that unbaked bread dough.

00:18:24.164 --> 00:18:30.964
Dr. Justine Lee: So, not only is there going to be too much gas production, but now that yeast and sugar is going to be broken down into alcohol.

00:18:30.964 --> 00:18:34.804
Dr. Justine Lee: Unfortunately, that's going to result in ethanol poisoning in your dog.

00:18:34.804 --> 00:18:41.684
Dr. Justine Lee: And when we see that, all of a sudden, your dog may start walking drunk or collapse or vomit.

00:18:41.684 --> 00:18:51.164
Dr. Justine Lee: And unfortunately, not only does this cause neurologic signs or central nervous system signs in your dog, but it can actually drop the blood sugar too.

00:18:51.164 --> 00:18:52.224
Dr. Justine Lee: And that's our biggest danger.

00:18:52.824 --> 00:18:54.364
Dr. Justine Lee: So that can be life-threatening.

00:18:54.364 --> 00:18:56.104
Dr. Justine Lee: Now, it's not a super common one.

00:18:56.104 --> 00:19:01.744
Dr. Justine Lee: And you're right in that it's relatively rare to see unbaked bread dough ingestion and alcohol poisoning.

00:19:01.744 --> 00:19:06.124
Dr. Justine Lee: But when I see it at the ER Vet, it's usually during the holidays.

00:19:06.124 --> 00:19:14.944
Dr. Justine Lee: So again, for all you bakers out there during the holidays, all of you guys with sour dough kits, you want to be really, really careful and keep that at a reach.

00:19:14.944 --> 00:19:18.024
Dr. Justine Lee: Now, cats, they rarely will touch this stuff.

00:19:18.024 --> 00:19:19.364
Dr. Justine Lee: Cats are so dignified.

00:19:19.364 --> 00:19:20.764
Dr. Justine Lee: They're not big gorgers.

00:19:20.804 --> 00:19:26.844
Dr. Justine Lee: They're not going to chew on huge amounts of food, but it's probably poisonous if they ate it too.

00:19:26.844 --> 00:19:29.144
Dr. Justine Lee: So when in doubt, keep that stuff at a reach.

00:19:29.144 --> 00:19:34.904
Michelle Fern: We talked about in the past, potpourri, which is something that is so common during holidays.

00:19:34.904 --> 00:19:41.384
Michelle Fern: And also, I want to know about candles, because those aren't normally very common during holidays too.

00:19:41.384 --> 00:19:47.404
Michelle Fern: I mean, most cat owners know not to keep the candle within reach of the cat in case you have a really curious cat.

00:19:47.904 --> 00:19:51.244
Michelle Fern: But what about those two holiday items?

00:19:51.244 --> 00:20:03.944
Dr. Justine Lee: Yeah, I'm going to say with any type of open flame, you always want to be really careful, because it could just take an accidental tail wag, or a cat leaping over something, where that candle can actually cause a fire.

00:20:03.944 --> 00:20:07.184
Dr. Justine Lee: So when in doubt, no open flame, just be on the safe side.

00:20:07.184 --> 00:20:14.024
Dr. Justine Lee: I have so many pet owners who say, oh, I just put it on the mantle, the Easterlily bouquets out of reach, he can't get into the candle.

00:20:14.024 --> 00:20:15.544
Dr. Justine Lee: Cats can get into anywhere.

00:20:15.544 --> 00:20:17.184
Dr. Justine Lee: So when in doubt, you want to be safe.

00:20:17.764 --> 00:20:24.004
Dr. Justine Lee: Now, when it comes to liquid potpourri, I'm not talking about your typical plug-in air diffuser.

00:20:24.004 --> 00:20:29.024
Dr. Justine Lee: So if you have like an air wick or glade plug-in, those are not a big deal to dogs and cats.

00:20:29.024 --> 00:20:32.244
Dr. Justine Lee: The bigger danger are these liquid potpourris.

00:20:32.244 --> 00:20:42.564
Dr. Justine Lee: They are safe for dogs, not a big deal, but cats have an altered liver metabolism, which means that they can't metabolize regular drugs the way a dog can.

00:20:42.564 --> 00:21:02.024
Dr. Justine Lee: Unfortunately, when people heat up liquid potpourris, so these are typically almost like these waxy balls that people will heat up on a simmer pot and put a little tea candle underneath, and it melts it and makes your house smell like evergreen and pumpkin spice and the smells of the holidays.

00:21:02.024 --> 00:21:04.904
Dr. Justine Lee: Well, when people do this, unfortunately, your cat's so curious.

00:21:04.904 --> 00:21:15.264
Dr. Justine Lee: Not only can they take a few licks out of the simmer pot liquid potpourri, but that can result in not only thermal burns, but corrosive burns to the mouth and the esophagus.

00:21:15.704 --> 00:21:21.684
Dr. Justine Lee: Unfortunately, because of the cat's liver metabolism, again, they can't metabolize this liquid potpourri.

00:21:21.684 --> 00:21:24.084
Dr. Justine Lee: It's actually a cationic detergent.

00:21:24.084 --> 00:21:28.104
Dr. Justine Lee: It's going to cause drooling, not eating, lethargy.

00:21:28.104 --> 00:21:39.344
Dr. Justine Lee: And in severe cases, albeit rare, it can actually cause abnormal fluid to accumulate within their lung, what we call pulmonary edema, in rare, rare, rare liver problems.

00:21:39.344 --> 00:21:42.804
Dr. Justine Lee: Again, not a big deal for dogs, but big, big danger for cats.

00:21:42.904 --> 00:21:46.504
Dr. Justine Lee: So ideally, no liquid pulmonary for cat owners.

00:21:46.504 --> 00:21:52.144
Dr. Justine Lee: Like I mentioned before, no Tinsel, no weird unbaked bread dough or alcohol.

00:21:52.144 --> 00:21:54.464
Dr. Justine Lee: Obviously, that's more of a dog thing.

00:21:54.464 --> 00:21:57.604
Dr. Justine Lee: But we want to keep those at a reach just to be on the safe side.

00:21:57.604 --> 00:21:59.324
Michelle Fern: Okay, I have one more question.

00:21:59.324 --> 00:22:03.924
Michelle Fern: Now, during the holidays, everyone's going to be a little more wound up than normal.

00:22:03.924 --> 00:22:09.884
Michelle Fern: And a lot of people use CBD these days for themselves, and they're starting to use it for their cats.

00:22:09.884 --> 00:22:11.904
Michelle Fern: I've heard different schools have thought about this.

00:22:12.044 --> 00:22:19.444
Michelle Fern: Some say it's AK, and a lot of what I've heard, especially from veterinarians, is that there's an issue with dosage.

00:22:19.444 --> 00:22:23.384
Michelle Fern: What is your thought on CBD for cats?

00:22:23.384 --> 00:22:31.584
Dr. Justine Lee: So I should disclose that I am on the advisory board for one veterinary CBD company called Elvet.

00:22:31.584 --> 00:22:34.964
Dr. Justine Lee: I will also say that my own dog is on CBD.

00:22:34.964 --> 00:22:41.364
Dr. Justine Lee: I will say as a toxicologist, most people aren't aware there's a difference between THC and CBD.

00:22:42.144 --> 00:22:45.044
Dr. Justine Lee: So marijuana has THC.

00:22:45.044 --> 00:22:48.164
Dr. Justine Lee: That's why people smoke it for the hallucinogenic effects.

00:22:48.164 --> 00:22:56.304
Dr. Justine Lee: Most of the time with appropriately extracted CBD, there should be no THC in there.

00:22:56.304 --> 00:22:59.504
Dr. Justine Lee: So your pet should not get marijuana poisoning.

00:22:59.504 --> 00:23:00.704
Dr. Justine Lee: That's the good stuff.

00:23:00.704 --> 00:23:01.824
Dr. Justine Lee: So it shouldn't be in there.

00:23:01.824 --> 00:23:04.584
Dr. Justine Lee: But they're getting different types of cannabinoids.

00:23:04.584 --> 00:23:17.364
Dr. Justine Lee: Now you have to do your research because there are some recalls and some warning was from the Food and Drug Administration, what we call the FDA, where they've actually measured the amount of CBD in some of these products.

00:23:17.464 --> 00:23:21.504
Dr. Justine Lee: Unfortunately, some of them had absolutely no CBD.

00:23:21.504 --> 00:23:31.724
Dr. Justine Lee: They did not match the label correctly, or there were large amounts, or there were heavy metals and contaminants like heavy metals, or pesticides, or fungicides.

00:23:31.724 --> 00:23:34.024
Dr. Justine Lee: So you really want to be careful.

00:23:34.024 --> 00:23:36.844
Dr. Justine Lee: I'm going to say, when in doubt, check with your veterinarian.

00:23:36.844 --> 00:23:44.244
Dr. Justine Lee: But depending on what state you live in, veterinarians sometimes aren't even allowed to talk about CBD with you, because it's extra label.

00:23:44.244 --> 00:23:45.424
Dr. Justine Lee: So just be aware.

00:23:45.424 --> 00:23:46.644
Dr. Justine Lee: You have to do your research.

00:23:46.644 --> 00:23:50.824
Dr. Justine Lee: I always say you have to be careful when it says veterinary recommended.

00:23:50.824 --> 00:23:53.804
Dr. Justine Lee: That means one veterinarian somewhere has recommended it, right?

00:23:53.804 --> 00:23:55.024
Dr. Justine Lee: So do your research.

00:23:55.024 --> 00:23:57.904
Dr. Justine Lee: I always like to ask for a certificate of analysis.

00:23:57.904 --> 00:24:01.724
Dr. Justine Lee: If the company can't provide you one, then you definitely should avoid them.

00:24:01.724 --> 00:24:14.144
Dr. Justine Lee: Because if they can't provide a certificate of analysis saying, yes, we've done testing, we've paid for extensive testing to say there's X amount of CBD in this product, there's no heavy metals, there's no contaminants, I become really cautious.

00:24:14.144 --> 00:24:16.884
Dr. Justine Lee: So you do want to do your research.

00:24:16.884 --> 00:24:28.524
Dr. Justine Lee: I'm not a fan of CBD in cats because most of the time it makes them drool profusely, and there's not enough research in my experience looking at it long-term-wise in cats.

00:24:28.524 --> 00:24:35.204
Dr. Justine Lee: Again, cats are super, super sensitive to drugs because of their altered liver metabolism, what we call glucuronidation.

00:24:35.584 --> 00:24:40.664
Dr. Justine Lee: Now, in dogs, there are several studies that have been conducted when it comes to CBD.

00:24:40.664 --> 00:24:45.484
Dr. Justine Lee: There have been some studies that look specifically at its use for osteoarthritis.

00:24:45.484 --> 00:24:50.384
Dr. Justine Lee: They've looked at it, or there's some preliminary studies looking at it for separation anxiety.

00:24:50.384 --> 00:24:59.564
Dr. Justine Lee: There's some studies looking at it for a couple of different reasons for pain control, for cancer, and there's still a lot of pending research out there.

00:24:59.564 --> 00:25:12.004
Dr. Justine Lee: So I will say, if you do want to consider CBD, you have to check with your veterinarian or the ASPC Animal Poison Control Center first, even if you're considering it in yourself.

00:25:12.004 --> 00:25:12.604
Dr. Justine Lee: Why?

00:25:12.604 --> 00:25:15.684
Dr. Justine Lee: Because it interacts with a lot of other drugs.

00:25:15.684 --> 00:25:27.044
Dr. Justine Lee: CBD undergoes metabolism in the liver through something called the cytochrome P450 system, and I don't want to get into too much detail because it's kind of boring, but that's why I went to vet school.

00:25:27.044 --> 00:25:32.664
Dr. Justine Lee: I will say, with the way that CBD is metabolized, it interferes with other drugs.

00:25:33.164 --> 00:25:51.004
Dr. Justine Lee: So if your dog is on anti-seizure medication, or is potentially on other drugs, even as benign as thyroid medication, if they're on certain non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, if they're on immunosuppressives, you have to talk to your veterinarian because there could be some drug interaction.

00:25:51.004 --> 00:25:59.124
Dr. Justine Lee: I will say that when I started my geriatric pit bull mix on CBD, he actually responded within two weeks.

00:25:59.124 --> 00:26:06.864
Dr. Justine Lee: He had more mobility, he seemed less sore, he seemed to enjoy my toddler more, my human one.

00:26:06.864 --> 00:26:17.004
Dr. Justine Lee: So when in doubt, you always want to pick a product that has a certificate of analysis that is proven to be pure and safe.

00:26:17.004 --> 00:26:19.084
Dr. Justine Lee: You always want to talk with your veterinarian.

00:26:19.084 --> 00:26:21.924
Dr. Justine Lee: And I'm going to say the data is still out on cats.

00:26:21.924 --> 00:26:31.804
Dr. Justine Lee: Right now, I do support its use carefully in dogs, but I'm going to say in cats, I'm going to hold off just because it usually causes drooling and cats metabolize things really differently.

00:26:31.804 --> 00:26:35.204
Dr. Justine Lee: So we're still waiting for a lot of research to come out in the area of cats.

00:26:35.204 --> 00:26:35.624
Michelle Fern: All right.

00:26:35.624 --> 00:26:45.404
Michelle Fern: And say if you want to calm your cats during this hectic time of year, there's always products like FeelAway, and I think there's another one, Pet Remedy.

00:26:45.404 --> 00:26:47.244
Dr. Justine Lee: That is a great question, Michelle.

00:26:47.244 --> 00:26:50.664
Dr. Justine Lee: So yes, remember cats do not like sudden change.

00:26:50.664 --> 00:26:55.364
Dr. Justine Lee: They, and obviously this is going to vary with COVID, like a lot of people aren't even having family come over.

00:26:55.364 --> 00:27:06.184
Dr. Justine Lee: But if your cat gets stressed out from family coming over or from a Christmas tree being put up or from people visiting, you do want to consider different types of medications.

00:27:06.184 --> 00:27:12.544
Dr. Justine Lee: There are a ton of different over-the-counter, holistic medications that you can talk to your vet about.

00:27:12.544 --> 00:27:20.084
Dr. Justine Lee: I personally say in severe cases, there are actually some cats that have behavioral problems that need prescription medications.

00:27:20.084 --> 00:27:23.884
Dr. Justine Lee: And these are usually what we call SSRI antidepressants.

00:27:23.884 --> 00:27:31.724
Dr. Justine Lee: So there's also some really, really safe sedatives, like Trazodone that are prescription, really safe ones called Gabapentin.

00:27:31.724 --> 00:27:39.644
Dr. Justine Lee: Obviously, never give a drug, a human drug, to your cat or your dog without checking with your vet or the ASPC Animal Poison Control Center first.

00:27:39.644 --> 00:27:42.724
Dr. Justine Lee: But yes, I'm going to say absolutely look into options.

00:27:42.724 --> 00:27:47.044
Dr. Justine Lee: I love FeelAway as a fear hormone to be able to help with that.

00:27:47.044 --> 00:27:55.044
Dr. Justine Lee: But if your cat or dog has pretty severe anxiety, when in doubt, pharmacological intervention is always appropriate.

00:27:55.044 --> 00:27:56.184
Michelle Fern: That's great information.

00:27:56.484 --> 00:28:00.284
Michelle Fern: I think Charlotte, one of my cats might need something like that.

00:28:00.284 --> 00:28:02.024
Michelle Fern: She hisses at everyone.

00:28:02.024 --> 00:28:02.644
Michelle Fern: Okay.

00:28:02.644 --> 00:28:06.704
Michelle Fern: So to round it up, this has been some such great information, Dr.

00:28:06.704 --> 00:28:07.524
Michelle Fern: Justine.

00:28:07.524 --> 00:28:24.044
Michelle Fern: So I guess to summarize, it seems like the most important things, stay away from Easter lilies, no Tinsel, be aware of your tree, and just be aware of CBD and other things that are out in the open that could maybe entice your cat.

00:28:24.664 --> 00:28:26.464
Dr. Justine Lee: Yeah, great summary, Michelle.

00:28:26.464 --> 00:28:33.904
Dr. Justine Lee: Again, one in doubt, talk to a veterinarian, but realize the holidays are not only stressful for us, but they're stressful for our four-legged friends.

00:28:33.904 --> 00:28:41.404
Dr. Justine Lee: And we want to minimize any kind of stress to them, whether or not it's behavioral related or whether or not it's medical.

00:28:41.404 --> 00:28:48.544
Dr. Justine Lee: We obviously all want to avoid an emergency visit to the ER Vet during a stressful holiday that we're supposed to be relaxing and enjoying.

00:28:48.544 --> 00:28:50.504
Dr. Justine Lee: I want everyone to be safe right now.

00:28:50.504 --> 00:29:01.264
Dr. Justine Lee: So again, great tips, pet proof, make sure that Christmas tree is secure, make sure most people know not to give certain poisons, but they forget about the weird zingers like Tinsel.

00:29:01.264 --> 00:29:04.324
Dr. Justine Lee: They forget about homemade holiday ornaments.

00:29:04.324 --> 00:29:09.184
Dr. Justine Lee: They forget about things like espresso beans covered in chocolate sitting under the Christmas tree.

00:29:09.184 --> 00:29:11.924
Dr. Justine Lee: They forget about things like unbaked bread dough.

00:29:11.924 --> 00:29:14.024
Dr. Justine Lee: So when in doubt, pet proof.

00:29:14.024 --> 00:29:18.644
Dr. Justine Lee: It is oftentimes safer to crate your dog out of the kitchen, so they don't get into things.

00:29:19.184 --> 00:29:28.624
Dr. Justine Lee: Your cat oftentimes prefers to be locked in a comfortable room with some white noise and a litter box and some tasty treats instead of mingling with the family.

00:29:28.624 --> 00:29:30.844
Dr. Justine Lee: So make sure you pet proof appropriately.

00:29:30.844 --> 00:29:35.484
Dr. Justine Lee: When in doubt, I always say the safest thing you can do is always pet proof.

00:29:35.484 --> 00:29:45.524
Dr. Justine Lee: The next thing is to pre-program your cell phone and GPS for your veterinarian, your emergency veterinarian, and the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center.

00:29:45.524 --> 00:29:51.544
Dr. Justine Lee: And that way, if you're really stressed out and something happens, you always have that information readily available.

00:29:51.544 --> 00:29:51.884
Michelle Fern: Dr.

00:29:51.884 --> 00:29:54.524
Michelle Fern: Justine, that is such great information.

00:29:54.524 --> 00:30:01.444
Michelle Fern: Thank you so much for coming on Cattitude and sharing all of this fantastic information for the holidays.

00:30:01.444 --> 00:30:06.964
Michelle Fern: And I wish you and your family and your for once a very happy holiday.

00:30:06.964 --> 00:30:09.184
Dr. Justine Lee: Thank you so much for having me on today, Michelle.

00:30:09.184 --> 00:30:13.244
Michelle Fern: So everyone, I hope you really enjoyed listening to this episode.

00:30:13.244 --> 00:30:15.904
Michelle Fern: There was a lot of great information from Dr.

00:30:15.904 --> 00:30:16.464
Michelle Fern: Justine.

00:30:16.844 --> 00:30:18.364
Michelle Fern: Be sure to check out her show.

00:30:18.364 --> 00:30:20.984
Michelle Fern: It's ER Vet on Pet Life Radio.

00:30:20.984 --> 00:30:29.604
Michelle Fern: And I'd like to thank my cat crew, which is Charlotte and Molly and Dennis, for teaching me all about cats.

00:30:29.604 --> 00:30:35.564
Michelle Fern: And thanks to my producer, Mark Winter, for making me and my guest today, Dr.

00:30:35.564 --> 00:30:38.244
Michelle Fern: Justine Lee, sound amazing.

00:30:38.244 --> 00:30:41.304
Michelle Fern: And remember, lose the Attitude... have Cattitude!

00:30:42.264 --> 00:30:47.304
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00:30:47.304 --> 00:30:48.224
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