Covered In Pet Hair

Join Isabel and Separation Anxiety Expert Malena DeMartini for a catch-up conversation on separation anxiety and how the condition affects dogs in different life stages. Malena shares science, concerns, and the best ways to address this common yet heartbreaking condition.

In this episode, Isabel and Malena dig into how separation anxiety affects rescue dogs and what pet parents can do to better understand the fear that pets feel when separated from their caregivers.

Listen to Episode #125 Now:

BIO:

Malena DeMartini-Price is renowned in the dog training world for her expertise in dog separation anxiety issues. She is the author of the books Treating Separation Anxiety in Dogs, as well as Separation Anxiety in Dogs – Next Generation Treatment Protocols and Practices. She has also contributed articles on separation anxiety to multiple publications such as the Association of Professional Dog Trainers’ (APDT) Chronicle of the Dog, Pet Professional Guild’s (PPG) Barks From the Guild, and various national magazines such as The Bark. She lectures on separation anxiety at professional dog training workshops and conferences around the world, including everything from large professional conferences to small venues. She also has been interviewed widely on this topic and multiple videos and podcasts have been produced. 

Malena is an honors graduate of the esteemed Academy for Dog Trainers, where she studied under Jean Donaldson, and is a member of the APDT, the Pet Professionals Guild, and the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants.

Transcript:

 

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Let's talk pets.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Welcome to Covered in Pet Hair, a boozy show for pet lovers on Pet Life Radio.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: I'm your host, Isabel Alvarez Arata, and today I have the pleasure to have a drink and a chat with the leading expert in separation anxiety in dogs for the second time.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: I will tell you all about her and introduce you as soon as we come back from these messages from our sponsors.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Hi, I'm Isabel Alvarez Arata, the host of Covered In Pet Hair, You know the expression, cats have nine lives?

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Well, what if you could give them one more?

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: A Give Them Ten movement is on a mission to help give cats an extra life.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: How?

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Spaying and neutering your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: And it helps control re-roaming cat populations too.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Learn more about the benefits of spay and neuter and meet Scooter, the neutered cat, at givethemten.org.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets on petliferadio.com.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Welcome back to Covered In Pet Hair.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: I'm your host, Isabel Alvarez Arata, and today I have the pleasure of having a drink and a chat with a pet parent, a dog trainer, a published author, an entrepreneur, a founder.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: She's a primary educator for dog professionals.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: She's a foodie, a wine snob, and a world traveler.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: She loves the ocean and considers herself a recovering workaholic.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: She's originally from San Francisco, currently lives in the California wine country.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: She's wife to Kevin, dog mom to Mabel and Tini, who is now 15 years old.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: She is the leading expert in separation anxiety in dogs.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: She is Malena DeMartini.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Welcome back, Malena.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's so good to see you.

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Malena DeMartini: I didn't know you're so kind for all the words that you say, but yeah, I just love your smile, Isabel, and the fact that you're just as enthusiastic as I am.

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Malena DeMartini: It makes me really excited and joyful.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: I know.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Any opportunity I have to check in with you, I take as a blessing because you are the leading expert in something that affects so many pet parents, and I feel like there's still so much work to be done because people don't know that they are a pet parent to somebody with separation anxiety.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: And my goal with these interviews is always to entertain and educate, and you are the perfect entertainer and educator because you're such an expert, but you're also so personable.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: So thank you for being my guest.

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Malena DeMartini: Thank you for having me.

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Malena DeMartini: I love this.

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Malena DeMartini: And I'm with you.

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Malena DeMartini: I want to get more education and information out there because it's just amazing to me how we've grown in education and awareness, but not to the extent that we need to.

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Malena DeMartini: So more and more and more people need to know that there are positive ways to work with separation anxiety and more people need to know that it even exists.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes, exactly.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes, so these people who might think they have bad behaving dogs, they just may just be dogs that have separation anxiety, especially like we spoke last time.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: And for those who are tuning in for the first time to an interview with Malena DeMartini, you should check out our first interview, which we did three years ago.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: And it is a basic kind of intro to separation anxiety.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: We're going to check in on some of that information and we're going to talk more about separation anxiety and how it affects different dogs in different stages of their life and different moments or experiences that they might go through.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: So before we get into all that, I want to introduce our drinking game today.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: So anybody participating in our drinking game at home, anytime you hear this word, the secret word is fear.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Take a drink of whatever you're enjoying, but please be over 21 in the US to partake.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Never drink and drive and always drink responsibly.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: So what are you joining us with from the California wine country?

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Malena DeMartini: Well, it's not wine today.

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Malena DeMartini: As a matter of fact, what I'm joining you with is called a separation anxiety soother spritz.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Oh, I love that.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: What's in a separation anxiety soother spritz so that I can enjoy one when I feel separation anxiety?

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Malena DeMartini: Well, there you go.

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Malena DeMartini: Separation anxiety soother spritz is only for dog guardians, not for dogs, just so you know.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: This is not to compete our dogs, for sure.

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Malena DeMartini: But this is a splash of Campari, a splash of soda and a bunch of mandarin juice and peel from my garden.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Oh, so beautiful.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: I love that so much.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: It sounds amazing.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: And honestly, I say that the people who deal with real separation anxiety at home, they need a soother because dog separation anxiety can be a lot to handle.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: So I totally agree.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: That's for humans only.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I'm actually joining you with a similar drink.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: It is orange.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yeah, it is orange too.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's a mimosa, classic mimosa.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: It just felt right today.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Cheers.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Thank you so much for being my guest again.

00:05:49.630 --> 00:05:52.310
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I feel like we're having brunch or something now.

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Malena DeMartini: We kind of are.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: We kind of are.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: In the future, we will.

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Malena DeMartini: We will.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: In real life.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Okay, so I always introduce this show with a game and today is no different.

00:06:01.850 --> 00:06:07.550
Isabel Alvarez Arata: We're actually going to catch up on some of the facts that you shared last time we spoke.

00:06:07.550 --> 00:06:10.870
Isabel Alvarez Arata: This game is called Separation Anxiety Catch Up.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: And so we're going to just ask you some questions that I remember from our conversation and see if anything has kind of changed.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Are you ready to play?

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Malena DeMartini: I'm so ready to play.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yay, okay.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: So, right now in 2024, approximately how many dogs, I think you said one out of a number last time.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: So if you have that kind of number this time, how many dogs are affected by separation anxiety?

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Malena DeMartini: You'll be surprised to know that percentage-wise, it's about the same as it was three years ago.

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Malena DeMartini: And three years ago, if you think about timing-wise, I guess many of us were like, oh no, the pandemic is going to chew up and spit out dogs into their separation anxiety woes, right?

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Malena DeMartini: Interestingly though, so that was about, you know, so we're in our neighborhood of 20% or more, going all the way up to close to 50%.

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Malena DeMartini: Interestingly, we've had a lot more increase about dogs that are suffering with separation anxiety.

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Malena DeMartini: But from a population level, it is about the same percentage.

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Malena DeMartini: And I think there's several things that have influenced that.

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Malena DeMartini: One is during the pandemic, everybody and their brother and neighbor and, you know, friend adopted a dog.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Right.

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Malena DeMartini: But from a population level, almost 50% or a little more than 50% rather, of households in the US acquired a new animal during the pandemic.

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Malena DeMartini: So just by virtue of population increase, we're getting more increase, right?

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Malena DeMartini: I think there's a little bit more that has influenced this, though, because everyone thought, oh my gosh, these dogs are not going to be left alone during the pandemic for, you know, weeks, months, almost years, with what has happened.

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Malena DeMartini: And everyone thought, oh gosh, they're going to all be suffering.

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Malena DeMartini: But I think what actually has attributed to these increased numbers of inquiries has been that everyone, everyone now can either afford a standalone camera for $30 or $40, or they can just log in to Zoom and watch their dog.

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Malena DeMartini: So people were not necessarily, for no reason other than accessibility, were not necessarily watching their dogs previously.

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Malena DeMartini: And then they start to watch their dogs and they're like, oh, oh, interesting, that behavior doesn't look very comfortable.

00:09:01.350 --> 00:09:20.850
Malena DeMartini: And I think one of the coolest things about that is that a lot, not, you know, a huge percentage, but a lot of the inquiries we're getting now are, I just, I'm watching my dog on, you know, Zoom or on the camera, and he doesn't look comfortable, he's, you know, kind of pacing, kind of whining.

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Malena DeMartini: We never got those inquiries before because no one knew, no one noticed, no one saw it.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes, that's amazing.

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Malena DeMartini: Yeah.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yeah, so I remember when we spoke that you were recommending the cameras, and I recently did have to purchase a camera for unrelated to pet reason, but they are so much more affordable than they were even when we spoke three years ago.

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Malena DeMartini: Definitely.

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Malena DeMartini: The main camera when we spoke, the mainstream camera service when we spoke three years ago was Nest Cam or Drop Cam as it was called, and it was like a $200, I mean, it was not cheap for just to watch your dog kind of thing, right?

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Malena DeMartini: Yeah.

00:10:06.710 --> 00:10:16.970
Malena DeMartini: Now, I mean, you can go into any big buck store or any online store, and like 30 bucks, you're good.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes, yes, exactly.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: I, and for those who, I'll shout out to WISE, W-Y-Z, because that's what I use at my, in my grandmother's assisted living.

00:10:26.510 --> 00:10:29.050
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And it's been super easy.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: If you want to record, you do need a little memory chip.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Just know that.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: And that's a tip that I learned the hard way.

00:10:35.130 --> 00:10:38.310
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I just was like assuming that it was already built in there.

00:10:38.310 --> 00:10:44.870
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And that's why they are so affordable, because if you just want, you know, to be able to check in whenever you want, you don't need to record.

00:10:45.250 --> 00:10:46.890
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They are like 20-30 dollars.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: And the chip I think was like 30 dollars additional once I ordered it.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: So YWYZE is a great option and definitely more accessible.

00:10:56.490 --> 00:11:03.110
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So has research also been continued since we spoke?

00:11:03.110 --> 00:11:04.510
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Is there more research?

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: What has the research found?

00:11:05.790 --> 00:11:08.710
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I know you've said that there could be a genetic link.

00:11:08.710 --> 00:11:11.530
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Is there any more to indicate that that's the case?

00:11:12.030 --> 00:11:16.270
Malena DeMartini: There is some sort of verging research.

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Malena DeMartini: Genetic stuff is well, you know, I actually recently attended a conference about some of the genetic components of dog behavior.

00:11:27.150 --> 00:11:29.350
Malena DeMartini: And the wonderful Dr.

00:11:29.350 --> 00:11:33.950
Malena DeMartini: Palmer was talking about just research in general, and Dr.

00:11:33.950 --> 00:11:50.330
Malena DeMartini: Lindsay Palmer, and was talking about research in general and said that it takes, gosh, I hope I quote this correctly, it takes 10 to 12 years for the research to kind of get down to the people that are applying it.

00:11:51.270 --> 00:12:00.710
Malena DeMartini: And I was like, oh my gosh, you know, and so I thought there's a lot, I know there's, and I scour, I scour the research all the time.

00:12:01.170 --> 00:12:09.410
Malena DeMartini: But I suspect there's a lot out there that are in publications that I'm just not aware of or are in other countries or other, you know, are published in other languages.

00:12:09.410 --> 00:12:10.230
Malena DeMartini: Exactly.

00:12:10.230 --> 00:12:11.270
Malena DeMartini: I'll say it again.

00:12:11.270 --> 00:12:14.370
Malena DeMartini: So, I mean, there's a lot happening.

00:12:14.370 --> 00:12:28.950
Malena DeMartini: From a genetic standpoint, I don't remember if we spoke about this, that what had been discovered, which is pretty cool, is that there was a haplotype, which for lack of a better term, a genetic marker, right?

00:12:29.630 --> 00:12:37.490
Malena DeMartini: That's a very simplified way of saying it, that had been discovered, that was associated with separation anxiety.

00:12:38.850 --> 00:12:45.910
Malena DeMartini: Interesting enough, the more I have read and understood about that, it's not at all a surprise.

00:12:45.910 --> 00:13:07.210
Malena DeMartini: I mean, if you think about, I'm going to breed a dog that has fearful behavior of any sort of variety, the likelihood that the pups are going to have some sort of, maybe not all of them, but some or many of them, will also have some fear behaviors.

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Isabel Alvarez Arata: Absolutely.

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Malena DeMartini: I think it's important though, and I hope I said this last time, but if I didn't, we're making it into this recording.

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Malena DeMartini: Just because something might be genetically influenced does not mean that it's not modifiable.

00:13:20.730 --> 00:13:22.750
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Right, exactly right, absolutely.

00:13:23.570 --> 00:13:33.050
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Has there been any breed specifically that's been identified as having separation anxiety in more cases than other breeds?

00:13:33.050 --> 00:13:42.630
Malena DeMartini: So there's a handful of studies that talk about, oh we did this breed specific research.

00:13:42.630 --> 00:13:47.330
Malena DeMartini: So far, the jury is out, and I'm going to tell you why.

00:13:47.330 --> 00:13:59.590
Malena DeMartini: There are some breed specific research papers, and I read through them, and I think, oh my gosh, this exactly mirrors my experience from almost 20 years ago.

00:13:59.590 --> 00:14:01.990
Malena DeMartini: And I'll give you an example.

00:14:01.990 --> 00:14:12.550
Malena DeMartini: There's one that shows that Miezele's have a high propensity for separation anxiety, or separation-related behavior problems.

00:14:12.550 --> 00:14:17.170
Malena DeMartini: But then when you like look through it, and you're like, oh well, they're also based in Hungary.

00:14:18.270 --> 00:14:24.070
Malena DeMartini: So, that is the predominant breed, or you know, very popular breed there.

00:14:24.070 --> 00:14:30.910
Malena DeMartini: So from a population standpoint, there's a lot more Miezele's there than there might be in, I don't know, Wichita, Kansas or something like that.

00:14:30.910 --> 00:14:32.650
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Exactly.

00:14:32.650 --> 00:14:35.410
Malena DeMartini: So, the jury is still out.

00:14:35.410 --> 00:14:49.830
Malena DeMartini: I think what we are starting to see is heritability when we're looking at lines of dogs seems to be, seems to be fairly prominent.

00:14:49.850 --> 00:14:53.050
Malena DeMartini: Ross breeds not necessarily as much.

00:14:53.290 --> 00:15:03.050
Malena DeMartini: So, in other words, this mom and that dad have, you know, some sort of fear-based separation related behavior problems.

00:15:03.050 --> 00:15:10.970
Malena DeMartini: The, those pups in that lineage and that line may continue to show some of those behavior issues.

00:15:10.970 --> 00:15:17.090
Malena DeMartini: But that doesn't mean another dog breed that didn't have those problems would produce that.

00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:20.270
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So, still, still out, still out.

00:15:21.970 --> 00:15:26.390
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And do you see it more often in purebreds versus rescues?

00:15:26.390 --> 00:15:27.790
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Is it about the same?

00:15:27.790 --> 00:15:29.790
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Is the jury still out?

00:15:29.790 --> 00:15:33.370
Malena DeMartini: Okay, from a research perspective, the jury is still out.

00:15:33.370 --> 00:15:42.510
Malena DeMartini: I'm going to give you my personal experience because I think it's important that we hear it.

00:15:42.510 --> 00:15:52.630
Malena DeMartini: There's a lot of discussion about, well, obviously, shelter dogs are going to have more separation-related to heater problems than purebred dogs.

00:15:52.630 --> 00:15:59.110
Malena DeMartini: That is not, anecdotally anyway, from my experience, what we see in our practice.

00:15:59.110 --> 00:16:07.910
Malena DeMartini: I mean, we have probably a similar amount of purebreds as we do rescues and mixed breeds and things like that.

00:16:07.910 --> 00:16:13.170
Malena DeMartini: So I commonly say that separation anxiety is sort of indiscriminate.

00:16:13.330 --> 00:16:18.330
Malena DeMartini: Like, it's like, oh, you, and maybe you over there, and maybe you over here.

00:16:18.330 --> 00:16:21.110
Malena DeMartini: It's just, well, we don't know enough to know.

00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:27.730
Malena DeMartini: We know so much about what doesn't cause separation anxiety, but we know very little about what does.

00:16:27.730 --> 00:16:30.970
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Okay, so that's my next question.

00:16:30.970 --> 00:16:34.110
Isabel Alvarez Arata: What does not cause separation anxiety?

00:16:34.110 --> 00:16:40.550
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Maybe like the top three, maybe some surprises that people, some myth-busting here.

00:16:40.550 --> 00:16:40.910
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Love it.

00:16:41.290 --> 00:16:44.150
Malena DeMartini: This is one of my favorite topics, just so you know.

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Malena DeMartini: The number one thing that I want anybody and everyone to hear, look, you can shut this podcast off if you have to go somewhere, but here, this one point, just hang on for one second, spoiling, quote unquote, activities are not, not only are they not really correlational, but they're not causational for separation anxiety.

00:17:04.930 --> 00:17:20.210
Malena DeMartini: And so when you are a dog guardian and you recognize and realize that your dog has separation anxiety, the first thing that people will commonly do is talk to their friends and their colleagues and their family.

00:17:20.210 --> 00:17:41.010
Malena DeMartini: And 99% of those folks, just making that number up, but it's true, are gonna say, if you just didn't spoil your dog so much, stop letting them sleep in your bed, stop giving them treats all the time and taking them everywhere with you and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, letting them on the couch, you know, all the things.

00:17:41.010 --> 00:17:48.550
Malena DeMartini: That has those, we're gonna call them spoiling behaviors, but in my personal opinion, those are, that's how you love a dog.

00:17:48.550 --> 00:17:50.690
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Exactly, that's just care.

00:17:50.690 --> 00:17:54.390
Malena DeMartini: That's tenor and kindness and love, right?

00:17:54.390 --> 00:17:55.750
Malena DeMartini: Yes.

00:17:55.750 --> 00:18:18.570
Malena DeMartini: And none of those correlate with separation anxiety and that research actually started very long ago, one of the first really prominent pieces of research was in 1991 about it and it's been replicated and this is one of those things that's really important in research and in science in general, right?

00:18:18.570 --> 00:18:31.470
Malena DeMartini: We can get this one-off paper that says, I found this cool thing, but until it's replicated and then again replicated and then again replicated, we don't know, we don't know.

00:18:31.470 --> 00:18:37.710
Malena DeMartini: But this research has been replicated many, many times since the early 90s.

00:18:37.710 --> 00:18:50.970
Malena DeMartini: And nope, love your dog, kiss your dog, pet your dog, sleep with your dog, in the bed, all those things, because that's not going to cause or even impact.

00:18:50.970 --> 00:18:51.290
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Right.

00:18:51.290 --> 00:18:53.230
Malena DeMartini: They're, I think, Shadi.

00:18:53.230 --> 00:18:54.630
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Exactly right.

00:18:54.630 --> 00:19:12.830
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I stumbled upon a video of a dog trainer, I don't know what their credentials were, on social media, and it was that, you're over spoiling your pet and that's going to lead to you not being able to leave the house, and I made the mistake of commenting being like, that is not how separation anxiety works.

00:19:12.830 --> 00:19:25.690
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And so many people were like, I know for a fact, and I'm like, that's not what the science says, because I know I heard it from the leading expert in separation anxiety, that that does not cause separation anxiety.

00:19:25.970 --> 00:19:31.850
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Loving, caring for and feeling like your pet is part of your family does not cause separation anxiety.

00:19:31.850 --> 00:19:46.930
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I love that you commented on that, and I love that we are going to be able to share that, diffuse that on social media, because there's so much misinformation about how we need to keep our pets down in order for them to be healthier and happier.

00:19:47.410 --> 00:19:50.490
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It doesn't even make sense logically.

00:19:50.490 --> 00:20:03.730
Malena DeMartini: No, and as a matter of fact, a lot of the so-called, let's just say, trainers that are claiming these things often talk about the concern that the dog is hyper attached.

00:20:03.730 --> 00:20:12.590
Malena DeMartini: And what's interesting is that attachment theory started to become important back in the 50s, right?

00:20:12.590 --> 00:20:16.510
Malena DeMartini: Started with bothy, and this was all about attachment.

00:20:16.570 --> 00:20:23.510
Malena DeMartini: Human child attached to not just parent, but female parent.

00:20:23.510 --> 00:20:25.710
Malena DeMartini: So it was all, it was very interesting.

00:20:27.850 --> 00:20:45.810
Malena DeMartini: Attachment theory, there is, there is so many holes to be poked there, but one of the things that I think is really important that people hear is that attachment, when it is a positive attachment, right?

00:20:45.810 --> 00:21:00.390
Malena DeMartini: Supportive attachment, meaning they're getting everything that they need, that is correlated with fewer levels or lower levels of anxiety, as opposed to insecure attachment.

00:21:00.930 --> 00:21:05.110
Malena DeMartini: This is true in, you know, human relationships, too.

00:21:05.130 --> 00:21:14.990
Malena DeMartini: Insecure attachment, where they're getting variable looks, sometimes I hug you and love you, and sometimes I'm mad at you and I, you know, smack you on the head or what, right?

00:21:14.990 --> 00:21:16.190
Malena DeMartini: It's like they're lost.

00:21:16.190 --> 00:21:17.010
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Exactly right.

00:21:17.250 --> 00:21:27.630
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I'm an attachment parent for that reason, because from my understanding, the more their needs are met, the more independent they become when they are ready to do so.

00:21:27.630 --> 00:21:33.130
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So I've always been, and I know my family thinks I spoil my kids and I'm always there for them.

00:21:33.130 --> 00:21:35.570
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And you know, they're too attached to me.

00:21:35.570 --> 00:21:38.150
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I'm like, who else are they going to be attached to?

00:21:38.150 --> 00:21:40.030
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They're six and four years old.

00:21:40.030 --> 00:21:42.770
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They're supposed to be attached to their mom.

00:21:42.770 --> 00:21:46.970
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And from a pet parent perspective, who's feeding the dog?

00:21:46.970 --> 00:21:48.970
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Of course, they're going to be attached to you.

00:21:48.970 --> 00:21:52.530
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They can't open the door, drive to the grocery store and buy themselves kibble.

00:21:52.530 --> 00:21:56.710
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You are their provider and their source of survival.

00:21:56.710 --> 00:21:58.730
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So of course, they're going to be attached to you.

00:21:58.810 --> 00:22:01.610
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And it would be really unnatural for them not to be.

00:22:01.610 --> 00:22:11.810
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Knowing how our families function and how we feed them once or twice a day, how we provide for them every single thing that they need in their life.

00:22:11.810 --> 00:22:13.430
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Makes no sense.

00:22:13.430 --> 00:22:25.750
Malena DeMartini: And remember to follow up on that really quick because one of the things that I learned, this was eons ago, but Jean Donaldson actually said this and it always stuck in my head about dominance type theory.

00:22:26.110 --> 00:22:30.050
Malena DeMartini: Like, oh, they're trying to take over, you know.

00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:49.270
Malena DeMartini: And I laughed at that, but I never really thought it through until Jean said to me, how many dogs do you know that have stolen the car keys and the credit cards and have driven off to like spoil themselves in the pet store or whatever?

00:22:49.330 --> 00:22:50.090
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Exactly.

00:22:50.090 --> 00:22:56.470
Malena DeMartini: Like, they can't, they are so, you know, we need, they need our care.

00:22:56.730 --> 00:23:00.490
Malena DeMartini: They need to, they want to go potty.

00:23:00.490 --> 00:23:01.850
Malena DeMartini: We take them out.

00:23:01.850 --> 00:23:04.790
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's pretty, pretty, it's the same.

00:23:04.790 --> 00:23:05.650
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Exactly.

00:23:05.650 --> 00:23:16.030
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's so funny because I feel like we forget how much our pets really understand about our dynamic because I think we don't give them enough credit, you know.

00:23:16.030 --> 00:23:18.270
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Like, they know who feeds them.

00:23:18.670 --> 00:23:22.470
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They stare at you every morning, the person in the house who feeds them.

00:23:22.470 --> 00:23:24.150
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They stare at you every morning.

00:23:24.150 --> 00:23:25.650
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They want to be in your good graces.

00:23:25.650 --> 00:23:29.790
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They're not trying to challenge you so that you can't have a hand to feed them.

00:23:29.790 --> 00:23:30.690
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Are you crazy?

00:23:30.690 --> 00:23:34.010
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Like, we have to give our pets a little more credit.

00:23:34.010 --> 00:23:36.070
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Well, I have two more questions for the game.

00:23:36.070 --> 00:23:37.450
Isabel Alvarez Arata: These are pretty.

00:23:37.450 --> 00:23:42.290
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I feel like these are going to be helpful for those who don't know much about separation anxiety.

00:23:42.290 --> 00:23:47.330
Isabel Alvarez Arata: When people call you, what is the most common symptom or sign that they're sharing with you?

00:23:48.210 --> 00:23:51.290
Isabel Alvarez Arata: That leads them to believe that it's separation anxiety.

00:23:51.290 --> 00:23:57.490
Malena DeMartini: Well, I'm going to talk about this three-headed dog, so, Cerebus here, right?

00:23:59.030 --> 00:24:08.410
Malena DeMartini: The most common three symptoms are vocalization when left alone, destruction when left alone, and elimination.

00:24:08.410 --> 00:24:13.170
Malena DeMartini: So, you know, urinating or defecating in the house only when left alone.

00:24:13.230 --> 00:24:24.370
Malena DeMartini: I want to– I think you're right, this is really important for people to hear, because that is changing as I kind of alluded to earlier now that people have cameras to watch their dogs.

00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:37.570
Malena DeMartini: Those three, vocalization, elimination and destruction, are three symptoms that are terribly inconvenient to the guardian.

00:24:37.570 --> 00:24:44.750
Malena DeMartini: You're getting landlord or neighbor complaints, you're having to clean up pee and poop, you're replacing doors or whatever.

00:24:44.750 --> 00:24:50.470
Malena DeMartini: Those are really big deals to us as a human component.

00:24:50.470 --> 00:24:56.310
Malena DeMartini: But there are a lot more indicators of stress when we're left alone.

00:24:56.310 --> 00:25:05.990
Malena DeMartini: Those are just the ones that really are obvious to us from a– even if we're not watching the camera, right?

00:25:05.990 --> 00:25:06.590
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Right, right, right.

00:25:07.330 --> 00:25:40.530
Malena DeMartini: And so, to me, things like excessive panting, pacing, drooling, scratching, there's so many, you know, even just freezing and pupillary dilation, you know, like a dog is like terrified and trembling, there's no inconvenience to the guardian or to the neighbors or to everybody, but that's a horrible, horrible way to spend four hours while someone's, you know, out in a movie or whatever it is, right?

00:25:40.530 --> 00:25:44.430
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Or eight, or eight to ten hours if they're at work, oh no.

00:25:44.430 --> 00:25:54.470
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And what, have you seen any unusual signs that people would be really surprised to learn can be related to separation anxiety?

00:25:54.470 --> 00:26:26.930
Malena DeMartini: So, I'm gonna say, maybe this isn't unusual, but I will comment, not commonly, but often enough, get referrals from veterinarians saying this, you know, the guardian says he doesn't like being left alone, but we want to talk because this dog has severe GI issues or severe skin allergy type things or that kind of stuff.

00:26:26.930 --> 00:26:45.110
Malena DeMartini: And I'm not a vet, gotta say that across the board, I am, and of course I don't, I'm not saying that I know that these things are correlated from a medical standpoint, but so many of these dogs, I'll tell you this, when I was in corporate America, I was a stressed out mess.

00:26:45.110 --> 00:26:51.590
Malena DeMartini: And I used to have a bottle, I'm not joking, a bottle of Pepto-Bismol in my desk drawer.

00:26:51.590 --> 00:26:56.110
Malena DeMartini: Because I was constantly like, oh, I don't feel well.

00:26:56.110 --> 00:26:58.350
Malena DeMartini: And I was just like slugging at that.

00:26:58.350 --> 00:27:05.590
Malena DeMartini: Well, stress can and often does create gastrointestinal issues.

00:27:05.590 --> 00:27:06.870
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Absolutely.

00:27:06.910 --> 00:27:10.850
Malena DeMartini: A skin irritation and all the things.

00:27:10.850 --> 00:27:14.970
Malena DeMartini: Again, that obviously has to be discussed with and diagnosed by a vet.

00:27:14.970 --> 00:27:17.270
Malena DeMartini: But it's not uncommon.

00:27:17.270 --> 00:27:24.370
Malena DeMartini: And it's one of my favorite things, is when we start to work on the dog's separation anxiety.

00:27:25.470 --> 00:27:28.970
Malena DeMartini: And then suddenly you're like, oh, they have normal stool again.

00:27:28.970 --> 00:27:29.590
Malena DeMartini: That's amazing.

00:27:29.590 --> 00:27:35.870
Malena DeMartini: And now you're like, oh, so it was, you know, so what comes first, the chicken or the egg?

00:27:35.870 --> 00:27:39.050
Malena DeMartini: We kind of don't know until we start to make some progress with the anxiety.

00:27:39.050 --> 00:27:43.750
Malena DeMartini: But I think that's an important one to think about and to recognize.

00:27:43.750 --> 00:27:51.430
Malena DeMartini: And it's one of the things we track very carefully when we're working with dogs, is like, what is their GI like?

00:27:51.710 --> 00:27:54.570
Malena DeMartini: What are other aspects of their health looking like?

00:27:54.570 --> 00:27:59.890
Isabel Alvarez Arata: That is so important because I'm a big believer in knowing the root cause for ailments, right?

00:27:59.890 --> 00:28:45.550
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And if we don't kind of know that maybe you go to the vet and you're telling your vet your dog has GI upset, but you forget to mention that you're also working with a dog trainer because of separation anxiety, that's really important information because maybe the vet will be educated enough to say, like, hey, I know this person who's the leading expert, who may be a better resource than a dog trainer who's not specializing in any way in separation anxiety, so that maybe it can come back to the root being not a gut issue, not the food they're eating, not the medication for XYZ is causing stomach upset, but maybe it is just the stress levels are so high.

00:28:45.710 --> 00:28:53.890
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I think everybody has seen at some point a video of a dog having a huge reaction to, for example, noises.

00:28:53.890 --> 00:29:02.450
Isabel Alvarez Arata: We've all seen the videos of the dog trying to get out of a crate, or trying to escape his own home because fireworks are going off.

00:29:02.450 --> 00:29:10.410
Isabel Alvarez Arata: But I think a lot of people haven't seen, you know, these subtle yet really telltale signs of a dog with separation anxiety.

00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:19.350
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And like, sometimes they're so subtle because my dog has separation anxiety some– it's better when she has a pet mate.

00:29:19.350 --> 00:29:23.470
Isabel Alvarez Arata: She does not do well individually at all.

00:29:23.470 --> 00:29:26.590
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And she– it's very subtle with her.

00:29:26.590 --> 00:29:30.910
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's very kind of like that very excited return from the store.

00:29:30.910 --> 00:29:35.110
Isabel Alvarez Arata: She's just jumping out of her skin after an hour.

00:29:35.110 --> 00:29:37.670
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You know, ten minutes out front, she's fine.

00:29:37.670 --> 00:29:42.150
Isabel Alvarez Arata: An hour more, she just is just jubilant that I'm back.

00:29:42.290 --> 00:29:47.030
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So, these kinds of things people don't realize could be a sign of separation anxiety.

00:29:47.030 --> 00:29:48.350
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You just take it as a compliment.

00:29:48.350 --> 00:29:53.830
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Your dog's happy to see you, but you don't know that they have been desperate for you to come back.

00:29:53.830 --> 00:29:57.010
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Again, because they know that you are their source of survival.

00:29:57.010 --> 00:29:59.490
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So, thank you so much for catching us up on that.

00:29:59.490 --> 00:30:02.770
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I want to catch me up on your business.

00:30:02.770 --> 00:30:09.570
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And everything that you guys are doing, I want to shout out to you and your team for supporting the Texas Pet Seaters Conference.

00:30:09.570 --> 00:30:15.690
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You are always so generous with us, sharing with us your Mission Possible course, your books.

00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:30.730
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So, what do you have going on right now, other than everything you have always done, which is your books, your courses, and being basically the leading trainer for dog trainers that want to specialize in separation anxiety?

00:30:30.730 --> 00:30:39.770
Malena DeMartini: Well, I am glad you asked, because one thing I do want to talk about that we have been working on for about the last year, I mean, it's a huge passion of mine.

00:30:39.770 --> 00:30:57.950
Malena DeMartini: I mean, separation anxiety in general is my passion, but this piece has been a huge passion of mine for a long time, and that is how to support shelters and rescues that have separation anxiety dogs in their care.

00:30:57.950 --> 00:31:05.930
Malena DeMartini: And there are big, big, big gaps in the way that we can support shelters and rescues.

00:31:05.950 --> 00:31:28.870
Malena DeMartini: And the elements of support and resources for shelters and rescues, we conducted a survey, started last year in October, and we've had quite a few responses from staff and volunteers and fosters and everybody associated with shelter and rescue, and we learned a lot.

00:31:29.870 --> 00:31:50.090
Malena DeMartini: And what we learned is that there's a very large spectrum of, yeah, we follow up one time later and then from there to much more robust.

00:31:50.090 --> 00:32:01.390
Malena DeMartini: And it was interesting because it was indiscriminate between really, really small shelters and rescues that only had one or two people, volunteers kind of thing, to very large.

00:32:01.390 --> 00:32:16.850
Malena DeMartini: There was a lot of gaps in that follow up and how to support adopters and even how to look at the point of intake through fostering, through pre-adoption, through post-adoption, and we created a lot of resources for that.

00:32:16.850 --> 00:32:27.410
Malena DeMartini: And I recently presented on this shelter and rescue topic for IAWC at their conference.

00:32:27.410 --> 00:32:37.030
Malena DeMartini: And I'm gonna present again for APDT later this year and PPG in a few months on all of our research findings.

00:32:38.270 --> 00:32:57.850
Malena DeMartini: One of the things that I found interesting at the IAWC conference, I asked the audience, like, how much follow-up do you provide for dogs with known separation-related behavior problems once they're adocked?

00:32:57.850 --> 00:33:05.370
Malena DeMartini: And it was an interactive poll, so they could just scan a QR code and then just anonymously type in their answers.

00:33:05.370 --> 00:33:09.250
Malena DeMartini: And those answers showed up on my live screen, right?

00:33:10.370 --> 00:33:17.550
Malena DeMartini: It was a little worrying because it was like none, none, very little, not anything.

00:33:17.550 --> 00:33:23.950
Malena DeMartini: Just some, not too much, one follow-up call, one email, one this and one that.

00:33:23.950 --> 00:33:26.450
Malena DeMartini: And there were others that did more.

00:33:26.450 --> 00:33:34.330
Malena DeMartini: But the overriding predominant answer was none or little to none.

00:33:34.330 --> 00:33:35.870
Malena DeMartini: We need to change that.

00:33:35.870 --> 00:33:36.450
Malena DeMartini: Yes, of course.

00:33:36.450 --> 00:33:50.550
Malena DeMartini: And I think the reason we need to change it, well, for many reasons, but, you know, we do a tremendous job in, and I, my hats are off and I salute everybody in Shelter & Rescue.

00:33:50.550 --> 00:33:53.270
Malena DeMartini: They do such wonderful work.

00:33:53.270 --> 00:34:01.870
Malena DeMartini: And I know that, you know, you get the dog into your organization that has, I don't know, an ACL tear or something like that.

00:34:01.870 --> 00:34:09.930
Malena DeMartini: They're like, we're going to raise this much money to repair this ACL to get them out.

00:34:09.930 --> 00:34:13.470
Malena DeMartini: And then we're going to follow up and we'll have that business and we'll have this stuff.

00:34:13.470 --> 00:34:16.250
Malena DeMartini: Separation anxiety is a behavioral emergency, okay?

00:34:16.250 --> 00:34:22.870
Malena DeMartini: It may not be medical in the sense that you can't operate on it, but it is a behavioral emergency.

00:34:22.870 --> 00:34:31.930
Malena DeMartini: And I think we need to give those jobs that same level of kindness, care and support and those adopters as well.

00:34:31.930 --> 00:34:46.670
Malena DeMartini: So I'm hoping to start to educate and provide more resources that will allow people to adopt these dogs with the understanding and the hope that this can be addressed, you know?

00:34:46.670 --> 00:34:47.710
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:47.710 --> 00:35:08.450
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You know, what's really interesting is that as somebody who supports and advocates for rescue and obviously advocates for training, especially for situations like separation anxiety, I never thought about maybe people doing a fundraiser to get a dog trainer involved or a dog that is in a shelter environment that suffers from separation anxiety.

00:35:09.110 --> 00:35:16.590
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It should have been low-hanging fruit and really obvious to me, but until you said it, I was not, you know, it just hadn't occurred to me.

00:35:16.590 --> 00:35:20.190
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So I think it's, that's exactly why we have these conversations.

00:35:20.190 --> 00:35:41.230
Isabel Alvarez Arata: That's exactly why people like you do what you do so that we can make this more of a, you know, approachable topic that has a solution rather than something that, well, I want, I actually, I'm going to ask you that may actually destine the dog for the worst or for the unthinkable because they think that there's no solution.

00:35:41.230 --> 00:35:43.470
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So on that note, I'm going to take a break right here.

00:35:43.470 --> 00:35:53.090
Isabel Alvarez Arata: We're going to listen to our sponsors and when we come back, I'm actually going to dig in deeper into separation anxiety, rescues and shelters, what they do, what they don't do, what it means for the dog.

00:35:53.090 --> 00:35:54.230
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So don't go anywhere.

00:35:54.230 --> 00:35:56.650
Isabel Alvarez Arata: We will be right back with Malena DeMartini.

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00:36:54.970 --> 00:36:56.590
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Welcome back to Covered in Pet Hair.

00:36:56.590 --> 00:37:03.390
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I'm your host, Isabel Alvarez Arata, and today I'm having a conversation with the foremost expert in separation anxiety in dogs.

00:37:03.844 --> 00:37:05.204
Isabel Alvarez Arata: That is Malena DeMartini.

00:37:05.204 --> 00:37:16.444
Isabel Alvarez Arata: If you know anything about dog training, if you know anything about separation anxiety, you know Malena, and you know that she is just as knowledgeable as she is committed and dedicated to this topic.

00:37:16.444 --> 00:37:25.044
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I love having you on the show, Malena, because I learned so much, and it really does get me thinking about something that is very akin to mental health, right?

00:37:25.044 --> 00:37:39.824
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So we talk about mental health as an actual medical condition in humans, and this is something that is very similar, and many times in the pet world, it doesn't get its due.

00:37:39.824 --> 00:37:51.144
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So we were just talking about how you are committed to helping rescues and shelters navigate separation anxiety from the start, through adoption and beyond.

00:37:51.144 --> 00:37:58.424
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I want to play a game with you, and this is called Mission Possible, Rescues and Shelters, to take from your course's name.

00:37:58.424 --> 00:38:13.944
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I just want you to tell me how you and your team help in these specific moments and things that maybe adopters should be looking out for, asking for, if they think that they might be working with a rescue that's open to it.

00:38:16.024 --> 00:38:22.444
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So, the first question I have for you is how do you help shelters and rescues at intake?

00:38:22.444 --> 00:38:41.984
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And intake, for those who aren't familiar with the terminology, is when they receive a pet in a shelter environment, it might be like an owner surrender, it might be transfer from a high-kill shelter, from a rescue, it might be pulling them from the shelter, or against owner surrenders or returns, how do you help that process?

00:38:43.564 --> 00:38:50.524
Malena DeMartini: So, for the intake process, it's good news and slightly not great news.

00:38:50.524 --> 00:39:09.744
Malena DeMartini: When we have someone that's surrendering an animal, we have created a questionnaire which by the way needs to be discussed and the questions need to be asked in a very compassionate and empathetic way.

00:39:09.744 --> 00:39:22.684
Malena DeMartini: This is not judging this person for bringing their dogs because they're, for whatever reason, that is what they need in their lives for their situation.

00:39:22.684 --> 00:39:42.864
Malena DeMartini: But the more information that we can gather about that dog, the better equipped the shelter or rescue will be to provide that particular animal with not only what they need while they're in their care, but also provide them with the best opportunities for adoption with the right types of fits.

00:39:45.224 --> 00:40:01.644
Malena DeMartini: When shelters and rescues pull, you know, whether it's a stray, whether they pull from another organization, they grab a dog that is in a rescue that was potentially going to be euthanized, there's typically not the level of information.

00:40:03.584 --> 00:40:17.644
Malena DeMartini: And it's hard because one thing that I talk to, and I talk to a lot of shelter and rescue organizations, and one thing that everybody is sort of pulling their hair out about is, how do we know?

00:40:17.644 --> 00:40:25.424
Malena DeMartini: How do we know if this dog has separation anxiety, if we don't have intake information from a previous guardian?

00:40:25.424 --> 00:40:26.684
Malena DeMartini: And the answer is you don't.

00:40:27.544 --> 00:40:45.544
Malena DeMartini: Because separation anxiety looks identical to shelter stress, and it can also not be very apparent at all in an environment where a dog is very shut down and overwhelmed.

00:40:45.544 --> 00:41:00.584
Malena DeMartini: So while in the shelter environment, even those dogs that you think, oh I take them out for their, let's say their walk, and they don't want to go back in the kennel, and they just want to be with me kind of, that could just be shelter stress.

00:41:00.584 --> 00:41:08.384
Malena DeMartini: And there's a big concern about labeling a dog with separation anxiety that doesn't have it.

00:41:08.384 --> 00:41:19.924
Malena DeMartini: And there's also a big concern about labeling a dog that does have separation anxiety without it, you know, that transparency.

00:41:19.924 --> 00:41:31.124
Malena DeMartini: And so I really urge shelter and rescue organizations to refrain from diagnoses unless they really have historical information.

00:41:31.124 --> 00:41:32.104
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Okay, perfect.

00:41:32.104 --> 00:41:32.504
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Okay.

00:41:32.504 --> 00:41:37.924
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So that's the thing that I feel like is always missing in the rescue process, is the questionnaire.

00:41:37.924 --> 00:41:41.244
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So this is available to all rescues and shelters.

00:41:41.244 --> 00:41:42.644
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You provide the questionnaire.

00:41:42.644 --> 00:41:44.124
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They don't have to make up the questionnaire.

00:41:44.204 --> 00:41:46.164
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They just need to ask people to complete it.

00:41:46.164 --> 00:41:46.624
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes.

00:41:46.624 --> 00:41:51.044
Malena DeMartini: And I recommend that it's sort of a conversation as opposed to just please fill this out.

00:41:51.344 --> 00:41:52.184
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Got it.

00:41:52.184 --> 00:42:01.024
Malena DeMartini: You know, it's a kindness that we need to afford people, even though we don't like dogs being relinquished because that worries us.

00:42:01.024 --> 00:42:03.444
Malena DeMartini: But it's a kindness that many people need.

00:42:04.564 --> 00:42:06.844
Malena DeMartini: It's our empathy and compassion.

00:42:06.884 --> 00:42:10.004
Malena DeMartini: And that hobby is available to download.

00:42:10.004 --> 00:42:15.524
Malena DeMartini: This, that resource and all the others are available for free to download on our website.

00:42:15.524 --> 00:42:16.104
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Amazing.

00:42:16.104 --> 00:42:16.324
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yeah.

00:42:16.324 --> 00:42:23.464
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I think it's really important that we leave all judgment aside because at the end of the day, it really is about setting that pet up for success.

00:42:23.464 --> 00:42:28.104
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And if the person is there surrendering them, they obviously are not in the best place they can be.

00:42:28.104 --> 00:42:34.924
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So knowing that information allows us to find a better solution for that pet, a better placement for that pet.

00:42:35.064 --> 00:42:41.664
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So it's always like the same way when I go to my district meetings for my kids' public school, the goal is the kids.

00:42:41.664 --> 00:42:47.084
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's always about the kids, the bureaucracy, everything else, the feelings the adults feel, not important.

00:42:47.084 --> 00:42:50.324
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's about the kids and in this case, it's about the pets.

00:42:50.324 --> 00:42:57.444
Isabel Alvarez Arata: How does the shelter environment, I imagine, it would exacerbate separation anxiety?

00:42:57.444 --> 00:43:02.724
Isabel Alvarez Arata: How do you help shelters mitigate that if it's even possible to do so?

00:43:03.424 --> 00:43:03.984
Malena DeMartini: Yeah.

00:43:03.984 --> 00:43:08.284
Malena DeMartini: So, it can exacerbate separation anxiety.

00:43:09.544 --> 00:43:13.564
Malena DeMartini: We don't know for sure because we don't have enough numbers and research behind that.

00:43:13.564 --> 00:43:22.324
Malena DeMartini: But anecdotally, from what we see, it can commonly exacerbate some of the separation-related behavior issues.

00:43:22.324 --> 00:43:46.224
Malena DeMartini: Before fully answering this question, I want to make a huge, huge sort of disclaimer in that I recognize that when we were talking about shelters and rescues, we're talking about organizations that could be one or maybe two people that are just renting it because they love that breed or they love the local community dogs or whatever.

00:43:46.224 --> 00:43:54.724
Malena DeMartini: All the way up to, you know, a behavior staff of 20 people and a volunteer pool of several hundred, you know.

00:43:55.584 --> 00:44:05.064
Malena DeMartini: So, not every suggestion was gonna necessarily work, depending on the workers that the individual organization has.

00:44:05.064 --> 00:44:13.624
Malena DeMartini: The very first suggestion for those that have the resources available would be to consider foster care.

00:44:13.624 --> 00:44:18.084
Malena DeMartini: And that, of course, would be wonderful for these dogs.

00:44:18.084 --> 00:44:25.524
Malena DeMartini: They, interestingly enough, it's often assumed that the foster needs to do the training for separation anxiety.

00:44:26.864 --> 00:44:32.524
Malena DeMartini: While that wouldn't hurt, that doesn't apply to the new home.

00:44:32.524 --> 00:44:44.924
Malena DeMartini: And so, if we have limited resources, I'd rather put those limited resources in getting other types of support that goes with the dog post-adoption.

00:44:44.924 --> 00:44:47.924
Malena DeMartini: Outside of foster, though, there's some really great research.

00:44:47.924 --> 00:45:11.464
Malena DeMartini: Lisa Gunter and a couple of other folks put the research together about just getting the dog, like, hanging out in the office for a couple of hours with the shelter and rescue staff, getting an overnight with a volunteer, getting a long, you know, day trip with a staff member or a volunteer or, you know, those sorts of things.

00:45:11.464 --> 00:45:16.864
Malena DeMartini: Continue to, I mean, they're not, it's not perfect, but these are difficult nations, right?

00:45:16.864 --> 00:45:33.864
Malena DeMartini: And those continue to allow that dog to kind of reduce some of that stress and that reduction in stress seems to be contributing to their resiliency to be able to handle the environments that they're in.

00:45:33.864 --> 00:45:35.784
Malena DeMartini: Really important.

00:45:35.784 --> 00:45:41.404
Malena DeMartini: So we just have to do the best we can do based on the resources that we have.

00:45:41.404 --> 00:45:50.684
Malena DeMartini: And you know, I love that you mentioned that when you were thinking, I never thought of raising money, you know, or raising funds for separation anxiety dogs, or any behavior for that matter.

00:45:50.684 --> 00:45:56.524
Malena DeMartini: But there's a lot of things that even monetarily don't have to be included.

00:45:56.524 --> 00:46:09.264
Malena DeMartini: I love, love, love when we have whether it's a foster or an adopter of a dog with separation anxiety, creating an online calendar that volunteers and local pet sitters and dog walkers and etc.

00:46:09.884 --> 00:46:14.164
Malena DeMartini: It could be like, I'll cover that two hours while you have to go to a doctor's appointment on Thursday.

00:46:14.204 --> 00:46:15.524
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Nice.

00:46:15.524 --> 00:46:18.684
Malena DeMartini: I mean, like that is invaluable.

00:46:18.684 --> 00:46:20.444
Malena DeMartini: Invaluable.

00:46:20.444 --> 00:46:24.244
Malena DeMartini: And you know, so there's a lot of things that we can offer.

00:46:24.244 --> 00:46:34.584
Malena DeMartini: That some, yes, are going to take, you know, some, some financial resources like training, but others, I mean, getting people to help with that management would be amazing.

00:46:34.584 --> 00:46:35.064
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Absolutely.

00:46:35.064 --> 00:46:42.184
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I love the idea of having volunteers sit with the dogs, because obviously, we don't want to leave them with their fear.

00:46:42.184 --> 00:46:48.384
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Like you said last time we spoke, you just lock them up with their panic and leave them on their own.

00:46:48.384 --> 00:46:49.504
Isabel Alvarez Arata: That's not what we want.

00:46:49.504 --> 00:46:57.944
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So having somebody to just support by just sitting there and watching TV or doom-scrolling for two hours while the pet is, yeah, like the pet's there.

00:46:57.984 --> 00:46:59.244
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's your, it's your break.

00:46:59.244 --> 00:47:00.624
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's your lunchtime, whatever.

00:47:00.624 --> 00:47:07.644
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's, there's so many programs out there where we have people volunteer to walk dogs.

00:47:07.744 --> 00:47:11.504
Isabel Alvarez Arata: But I haven't heard of anybody having volunteers to just sit with a dog.

00:47:11.504 --> 00:47:14.544
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And not all dogs want to walk for a whole hour.

00:47:14.544 --> 00:47:16.704
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So sitting with them would be nice too.

00:47:16.704 --> 00:47:17.604
Malena DeMartini: Very much so.

00:47:17.604 --> 00:47:18.824
Malena DeMartini: Very much so.

00:47:18.824 --> 00:47:24.904
Malena DeMartini: Most often these dogs just crave a human, you know, be hanging out with them.

00:47:26.444 --> 00:47:33.644
Malena DeMartini: And I want to remind people too, you know, yes, pet sitters charge and dog walkers charge.

00:47:33.644 --> 00:47:43.944
Malena DeMartini: There's a lot of low cost and no cost resources to college students that just want a nice, quiet Wi-Fi enabled place to…

00:47:43.944 --> 00:47:45.224
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes, exactly.

00:47:45.224 --> 00:47:45.524
Malena DeMartini: Yes.

00:47:45.524 --> 00:47:49.764
Malena DeMartini: And they're like, can I eat a sandwich out of your refrigerator?

00:47:49.764 --> 00:47:50.764
Malena DeMartini: Make it, you know, make…

00:47:51.204 --> 00:47:52.084
Malena DeMartini: Yeah.

00:47:52.524 --> 00:47:54.884
Malena DeMartini: 10 bucks for gas money or whatever, you know.

00:47:54.884 --> 00:47:55.784
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yeah, yeah.

00:47:55.784 --> 00:48:00.304
Malena DeMartini: It doesn't always have to, you know, people think I can't afford daycare and therefore I can't.

00:48:00.304 --> 00:48:02.284
Malena DeMartini: No, daycare is, yeah, fine.

00:48:02.284 --> 00:48:05.024
Malena DeMartini: But it's just one of many, many options.

00:48:05.124 --> 00:48:08.384
Malena DeMartini: And many of them are free or very low cost.

00:48:08.384 --> 00:48:15.584
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And honestly, knowing the pet sitters and dog walkers of the world, as well as I do, many of them volunteer anyway.

00:48:15.584 --> 00:48:25.284
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So it wouldn't be something that they would be unable to do, especially if they take a liking to a specific pet, you know, be a part of that pet's adoption process.

00:48:25.284 --> 00:48:31.824
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You know, if they're available, if they're, you know, maybe January, February, when they don't have a ton of people traveling, they can dedicate their time to that.

00:48:31.824 --> 00:48:39.884
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So yeah, it's again, it's finding and using those resources, leveraging the connections that we have in the industry, in the city, in the town that we live.

00:48:39.884 --> 00:48:41.264
Isabel Alvarez Arata: How do you support adopters?

00:48:41.264 --> 00:48:50.184
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So I assume that because these shelters and rescues are connected with you, they know your resources, they're referring to you.

00:48:50.184 --> 00:48:55.004
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Do you find that a lot of these adopters actually follow through and reach out?

00:48:55.004 --> 00:48:58.124
Malena DeMartini: They do, and I think that it's kind of two-pronged.

00:48:58.124 --> 00:49:06.884
Malena DeMartini: A lot of the shelters and rescues that we work with know that we provide a lot of resources to adopters.

00:49:06.884 --> 00:49:26.244
Malena DeMartini: And one of the things that we offer any shelter or rescue, anywhere in the world, if they want to support an adopter that has a separation anxiety afflicted dog, we will give them a $100 discount on Mission Possible.

00:49:26.764 --> 00:49:31.964
Malena DeMartini: Mission Possible is $199 regularly, which is lifetime access.

00:49:31.964 --> 00:49:34.924
Malena DeMartini: We are in that platform every day.

00:49:34.924 --> 00:49:37.584
Malena DeMartini: People can post questions, post comments.

00:49:37.584 --> 00:49:46.264
Malena DeMartini: They can ask all sorts of stuff, and we respond to it 365 days a year, so people aren't alone, our adopters aren't alone.

00:49:46.264 --> 00:49:50.904
Malena DeMartini: So we offer that discount to any shelter or rescue that wants to reach out to us.

00:49:52.164 --> 00:49:57.684
Malena DeMartini: Whether they want the adopter to pay the $99, or the shelter wants to cover that, that's up to them.

00:49:57.684 --> 00:50:04.084
Malena DeMartini: So that's kind of one place that I think anybody from an affordability standpoint could post.

00:50:05.144 --> 00:50:05.924
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Absolutely.

00:50:06.284 --> 00:50:10.904
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And it's one of those self-guided, but also guided courses.

00:50:10.904 --> 00:50:17.324
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So yes, you do it at your pace, and you do it when you have the time, but you also have somebody to guide you.

00:50:17.324 --> 00:50:20.724
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Because this isn't, you know, some training is black and white.

00:50:20.724 --> 00:50:21.384
Isabel Alvarez Arata: This is not.

00:50:21.624 --> 00:50:23.644
Isabel Alvarez Arata: There's a lot of gray and separation anxiety.

00:50:23.644 --> 00:50:26.364
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So you want that support, which is amazing.

00:50:26.364 --> 00:50:27.284
Malena DeMartini: Yeah.

00:50:27.284 --> 00:50:37.384
Malena DeMartini: And then other organizations are like, let's give the dog one or more months of one-on-one training.

00:50:37.384 --> 00:50:40.164
Malena DeMartini: And some of the adopters are like, I want to start out right.

00:50:40.164 --> 00:50:43.284
Malena DeMartini: I'm just going to go right in and get one-on-one training.

00:50:43.284 --> 00:50:45.504
Malena DeMartini: And that's awesome too.

00:50:45.504 --> 00:50:57.624
Malena DeMartini: I have to say, as much as I really feel strongly about getting that one-on-one training so that we don't continue to misstep, it's easy to misstep.

00:50:57.624 --> 00:51:09.284
Malena DeMartini: The amount of success that we see through those dog guardians that go through Mission Possible is pretty outstanding.

00:51:09.284 --> 00:51:13.724
Malena DeMartini: I want to make sure that people know that, yeah, you might want to go through Mission Possible.

00:51:13.784 --> 00:51:18.244
Malena DeMartini: And then, like, you get, you know, a couple of weeks in, and you go, oh, I have a question.

00:51:18.244 --> 00:51:27.844
Malena DeMartini: Maybe I'll, you know, maybe I'll just do a one-quick ad-hoc half an hour or something like that to ask some questions or ask questions within the platform.

00:51:27.844 --> 00:51:29.204
Malena DeMartini: We always answer that.

00:51:29.204 --> 00:51:36.264
Malena DeMartini: But if it's really specific to their dog, their environment, we need to look at that.

00:51:36.264 --> 00:51:52.224
Malena DeMartini: You know, just it's one of those things where I feel like if I, if I, you know, passed away tomorrow, I would know that there were a lot of people out there that would be able to continue to thrive with their dogs based on something that I have contributed in that way.

00:51:52.224 --> 00:51:53.604
Isabel Alvarez Arata: That's amazing.

00:51:53.604 --> 00:51:54.824
Isabel Alvarez Arata: That is really special.

00:51:55.024 --> 00:51:59.144
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I think the building of community for something like this is really important.

00:51:59.144 --> 00:52:02.564
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Because a lot of people have no idea what they're getting into.

00:52:02.564 --> 00:52:04.024
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They hear separation anxiety.

00:52:04.024 --> 00:52:06.044
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They're like, oh, we can, we can handle that.

00:52:06.044 --> 00:52:07.784
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And then they see the behaviors.

00:52:07.784 --> 00:52:12.444
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They become bigger because they mismanage it, not on purpose, but we don't know what we don't know.

00:52:13.144 --> 00:52:16.044
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And then they're like, nobody in my family gets it.

00:52:16.044 --> 00:52:21.604
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Nobody in my work understands why I can't go out after work because I don't have a sitter.

00:52:21.604 --> 00:52:22.704
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Nobody gets it.

00:52:22.704 --> 00:52:26.144
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And then they join something like, or they find their way to you.

00:52:26.144 --> 00:52:32.504
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And then they join Mission Possible and they see that they're not alone and that other people have similar experiences, even though it manifests differently.

00:52:32.504 --> 00:52:39.964
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's still a community that you can count on and maybe share those lows and those highs with that really gets it.

00:52:41.344 --> 00:52:48.584
Malena DeMartini: And I can tell you, I've been in, I've been a guardian of a dog that suffered with separation anxiety myself.

00:52:48.584 --> 00:52:52.324
Malena DeMartini: This was 10 years after I had already been specializing in the behavior.

00:52:52.324 --> 00:52:58.944
Malena DeMartini: But just having people that said, oh, I know you can't meet us for dinner.

00:52:58.944 --> 00:53:01.764
Malena DeMartini: Why don't we all come to your house and bring some takeout?

00:53:01.764 --> 00:53:02.604
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes.

00:53:02.604 --> 00:53:04.524
Malena DeMartini: Because they get it, they get it.

00:53:04.524 --> 00:53:08.444
Malena DeMartini: As opposed to being like, well, you just can't, we're just gonna exclude you kind of thing.

00:53:08.664 --> 00:53:10.384
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You're spoiling your dog.

00:53:10.384 --> 00:53:11.384
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Just leave him.

00:53:11.384 --> 00:53:12.424
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's a dog.

00:53:12.424 --> 00:53:12.804
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yeah.

00:53:14.844 --> 00:53:24.144
Isabel Alvarez Arata: When it comes to education for volunteers or workers in the rescues and shelters, do you feel like there's a huge need for education?

00:53:24.144 --> 00:53:31.704
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Do you find that depending on the funding of the shelter, maybe they have more education than others?

00:53:31.704 --> 00:53:35.704
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Is it just drastically different depending on where you look?

00:53:35.704 --> 00:53:37.964
Isabel Alvarez Arata: How have you found that aspect of this?

00:53:38.004 --> 00:53:43.604
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Because education is so important, especially from the top of the leadership in shelters and rescues.

00:53:43.604 --> 00:53:45.844
Malena DeMartini: It is really quite varied.

00:53:45.844 --> 00:54:01.644
Malena DeMartini: And I think those organizations that have someone on staff or at least a volunteer that have good behavior background tend to have much more understanding.

00:54:01.644 --> 00:54:01.964
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Got it.

00:54:02.164 --> 00:54:16.784
Malena DeMartini: It's a little shocking to me that there's a large component of organizations that are still like put them in a crate and stuff a Kong and it'll be fine, you know, and shout out to Kong and no offense there.

00:54:16.784 --> 00:54:18.544
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I would stuff a food toy.

00:54:18.544 --> 00:54:19.304
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:19.304 --> 00:54:20.604
Isabel Alvarez Arata: No, yeah.

00:54:20.604 --> 00:54:22.424
Malena DeMartini: Drive them in a crate and they should be fine.

00:54:22.424 --> 00:54:29.324
Malena DeMartini: And I just I want to get the message out there that I am.

00:54:29.324 --> 00:54:30.024
Malena DeMartini: Don't pay me.

00:54:30.024 --> 00:54:30.984
Malena DeMartini: I will educate you.

00:54:31.084 --> 00:54:45.744
Malena DeMartini: I want to let you know that you can help and that there is hope and that these dogs have tremendous ability to improve if we approach their training and behavior modification in the right way.

00:54:45.744 --> 00:54:48.104
Isabel Alvarez Arata: OK, so how do you help the dogs?

00:54:48.104 --> 00:54:57.344
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Because I imagine that and I don't know, I've never spoken to anybody about separation anxiety in terms of rescues and shelters specifically.

00:54:57.344 --> 00:55:03.284
Isabel Alvarez Arata: But is it a death sentence for some of these dogs to be diagnosed with separation anxiety?

00:55:03.284 --> 00:55:11.004
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And obviously if the shelters are gaining access to these resources, does that improve their outlook?

00:55:11.004 --> 00:55:11.844
Malena DeMartini: A lot.

00:55:11.844 --> 00:55:15.464
Malena DeMartini: So I'll answer part two before I answer part one.

00:55:15.464 --> 00:55:48.064
Malena DeMartini: Yes, it does improve their outlook a lot when shelters and rescue organizations have access to these resources and understand that there are ways to devote their internal resources, not always financially, sometimes not even at all financially, but devote some resources, time, volunteers, blah, blah, blah, to getting this dog into the right homes, including things like screening for the right adopter and counseling the adopter.

00:55:48.064 --> 00:55:54.784
Malena DeMartini: Because saying to an adopter, well, he doesn't like being left alone is not enough.

00:55:54.784 --> 00:55:59.524
Malena DeMartini: Because 90% of them are gonna say, Oh, if I love him enough, he'll be fine kind of thing.

00:55:59.524 --> 00:56:01.324
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You know, it's fine.

00:56:01.324 --> 00:56:03.384
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I work from home three days a week.

00:56:03.384 --> 00:56:04.664
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It's cool.

00:56:04.664 --> 00:56:05.284
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yeah.

00:56:05.284 --> 00:56:07.044
Malena DeMartini: They don't go out that often.

00:56:07.044 --> 00:56:09.104
Malena DeMartini: Yeah.

00:56:09.104 --> 00:56:15.284
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They don't realize how often they're gone until they come home and their door has been gnawed to like pieces.

00:56:15.284 --> 00:56:15.704
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes.

00:56:15.944 --> 00:56:17.144
Malena DeMartini: Exactly.

00:56:17.144 --> 00:56:21.244
Malena DeMartini: So that education, I think, is so, so important.

00:56:21.424 --> 00:56:39.144
Malena DeMartini: I'll tell you, you know, years ago, there were some local organizations that it was an automatic euthanasia if a dog came in, you know, knowing that the dog had some sort of separation related behavior problem or was relinquished for that reason.

00:56:39.144 --> 00:56:48.224
Malena DeMartini: And then when we did this survey that we started in October, we, there's still a few people or a few people that filled out the survey.

00:56:48.224 --> 00:56:52.304
Malena DeMartini: You know, some of them said we provide some support, we do this, we do that.

00:56:52.304 --> 00:56:56.644
Malena DeMartini: There were still a handful that said automatic euthanasia.

00:56:56.644 --> 00:57:05.624
Malena DeMartini: And I really would like to get that education out there because, of course, I can't say that this would be for any and every dog.

00:57:06.384 --> 00:57:22.384
Malena DeMartini: Except for for But man, most of these dogs that have this particular behavior problem are the most amazing, amazing dogs that don't have a whole lot of, if any, other behavioral problems.

00:57:22.384 --> 00:57:30.424
Malena DeMartini: And we'll just fix that whole separation of any pink elephant in the room, and then they're like the easiest, most incredible dogs you can back for.

00:57:30.424 --> 00:57:31.564
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes, exactly.

00:57:31.564 --> 00:57:31.964
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes.

00:57:31.964 --> 00:57:36.704
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I mean, it's one of those things where we can't fault them for wanting us near them.

00:57:36.704 --> 00:57:41.684
Isabel Alvarez Arata: We can't fault them for wanting to make sure that they're going to survive our next outing.

00:57:41.684 --> 00:57:43.104
Isabel Alvarez Arata: We can't blame them for that.

00:57:43.104 --> 00:57:46.204
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And it really comes from a place where they just want to be safe.

00:57:46.204 --> 00:57:47.604
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They want to have stability.

00:57:47.604 --> 00:57:52.344
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They just, they want to, that home-loving, home environment, that's what they want.

00:57:52.344 --> 00:57:54.364
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So I'm happy to hear that it's changing.

00:57:54.464 --> 00:57:59.604
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I am, it breaks my heart to think that a dog with separation anxiety would be an automatic euthanasia.

00:57:59.604 --> 00:58:05.004
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I understand that there are extreme cases where maybe they're a danger to themselves and others.

00:58:05.004 --> 00:58:06.184
Isabel Alvarez Arata: We see that with aggression.

00:58:06.184 --> 00:58:07.324
Isabel Alvarez Arata: We see that with reactivity.

00:58:07.324 --> 00:58:11.724
Isabel Alvarez Arata: We see them with a lot of different behaviors that there are extreme cases, but it shouldn't be the norm.

00:58:11.724 --> 00:58:18.264
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And speaking of these wonderful dogs, tell me, I know that it was Teenie who had the separation anxiety.

00:58:18.264 --> 00:58:23.504
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You had already been working in separation anxiety, but she kind of solidified this for you as your purpose.

00:58:24.044 --> 00:58:29.064
Isabel Alvarez Arata: How has her aging now that she's 15 affected her separation anxiety?

00:58:29.064 --> 00:58:29.824
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Is it different?

00:58:29.824 --> 00:58:30.644
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Does it look different?

00:58:30.644 --> 00:58:32.964
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Is it less, more?

00:58:32.964 --> 00:58:43.144
Malena DeMartini: Yeah, I hope I don't start to get all teary-eyed, because she's getting really up there, and we're seeing some considerable signs of aging.

00:58:43.144 --> 00:58:49.504
Malena DeMartini: But in the last year or two, it has affected her a long-time behavior.

00:58:49.504 --> 00:58:54.484
Malena DeMartini: And you know, I'm not surprised at all, because think of it this way.

00:58:54.484 --> 00:59:05.044
Malena DeMartini: This is going to be a very odd example, but my mother, who is in her 80s several years ago, decided she was not comfortable driving anymore.

00:59:05.044 --> 00:59:11.104
Malena DeMartini: She has great vision, she's physically fit, she can hear well, you know, all the things.

00:59:11.104 --> 00:59:15.764
Malena DeMartini: But she just, as a result of aging, felt more vulnerable.

00:59:15.764 --> 00:59:33.204
Malena DeMartini: And I am not, I wouldn't anyway be surprised if as our dogs age, just like when we age, those little aches and pains and the little things that affect us do start to make us feel more vulnerable.

00:59:33.204 --> 00:59:41.164
Malena DeMartini: Whenever there's vulnerability, there tends to be the potential for increased anxiety in certain situations.

00:59:41.164 --> 00:59:42.024
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Absolutely.

00:59:42.024 --> 00:59:43.224
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It makes perfect sense.

00:59:43.224 --> 00:59:48.424
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Again, it's, I was listening to this doctor, she was talking about the human brain.

00:59:48.564 --> 00:59:56.464
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And it really applies to all mammals and most animals, that the brain is wired for survival and reproduction.

00:59:56.464 --> 01:00:01.964
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Survival and reproduction, survival and reproduction, whether you're human, dog, cat, no matter.

01:00:01.964 --> 01:00:14.584
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And it does make sense that if they feel like their survivability is impacted by aches and pains, by reduced energy levels, that they would be a little more on edge.

01:00:14.584 --> 01:00:16.584
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I feel like that's going to happen to all of us.

01:00:16.584 --> 01:00:17.284
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I'm with your mom.

01:00:17.384 --> 01:00:22.764
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I think that's a really great decision to make before it's a problem.

01:00:22.764 --> 01:00:26.604
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So I think it's really responsible that she made that decision.

01:00:26.604 --> 01:00:28.884
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I hope that I wish more people did that.

01:00:28.884 --> 01:00:33.664
Isabel Alvarez Arata: But it really is one of those things where you say like, I get the anxiety.

01:00:33.664 --> 01:00:37.084
Isabel Alvarez Arata: The anxiety is that you're not able to defend yourself from predators.

01:00:37.084 --> 01:00:39.544
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You're not able to fend for yourself as much.

01:00:39.544 --> 01:00:43.724
Isabel Alvarez Arata: You know you're just a little less able to care for yourself.

01:00:43.844 --> 01:00:47.864
Isabel Alvarez Arata: In Teenie's case, she's tiny, so there's also that.

01:00:47.864 --> 01:00:50.364
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And she, you know, it's a little more on edge.

01:00:50.364 --> 01:01:06.964
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And I love that you're talking about her, her aging process, because we always think about aging as arthritis, inflammation, blindness, deafness, but we forget that these behavioral slash mental health, right?

01:01:06.964 --> 01:01:12.004
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Canine mental health, feline mental health, conditions can also be affected by aging.

01:01:12.464 --> 01:01:20.784
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And it's not just canine dementia or cognitive decline, it's also an aggravation of a condition they may have had their whole life.

01:01:20.784 --> 01:01:21.904
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So it's so important.

01:01:21.904 --> 01:01:35.304
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And do you have like people in your practice that come to you, like maybe they didn't even know for 12 years that their dog had separation anxiety and the aging has kind of made it more obvious?

01:01:35.304 --> 01:01:36.104
Malena DeMartini: I do.

01:01:36.104 --> 01:01:39.304
Malena DeMartini: And I'll tell you, I don't have the perfect answer.

01:01:39.584 --> 01:01:43.504
Malena DeMartini: And I can relate it to what's going on with Teenie right now.

01:01:43.504 --> 01:01:49.704
Malena DeMartini: I mean, I think about it with Teenie and I think about those times when I've been sick.

01:01:49.704 --> 01:01:54.284
Malena DeMartini: Like imagine having a migraine, like you want your mommy or you want your partner.

01:01:54.284 --> 01:02:05.144
Malena DeMartini: Like, yeah, I think of it the same like there's some malaise, who knows of what nature, but like I don't want to be alone because I don't feel right.

01:02:06.324 --> 01:02:27.184
Malena DeMartini: And I think about Teenie and when in the last year or two as she has started showing signs of discomfort when left alone, I don't feel personally that I want to jump into a full-on behavior modification protocol and try to help her learn to be alone successfully.

01:02:27.184 --> 01:02:39.764
Malena DeMartini: I feel like these last months, years, whatever, I just want to support her in any and every way that she needs to be supported in her senior years.

01:02:39.764 --> 01:02:52.704
Malena DeMartini: And so it sometimes is part when someone wishes out to me and their dog, let's say, is, you know, starting to experience some cognitive dysfunction, decline, and they're like, oh, my dog's, you know, 12 or 13 or whatever.

01:02:52.744 --> 01:02:57.864
Malena DeMartini: And suddenly they're, whatever, about a long time.

01:02:57.904 --> 01:03:02.944
Malena DeMartini: It's hard for me because I want to be able to offer them some solutions.

01:03:02.944 --> 01:03:13.524
Malena DeMartini: But I also want to let them know that maybe this last year or two that you have left with your dog would be a beautiful time to give them everything that they need.

01:03:15.084 --> 01:03:16.564
Malena DeMartini: It's been a gift to you.

01:03:16.564 --> 01:03:19.984
Malena DeMartini: Let's give this gift tenfold back.

01:03:20.264 --> 01:03:21.304
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes.

01:03:21.584 --> 01:03:23.904
Malena DeMartini: I always give people the choice, always.

01:03:23.904 --> 01:03:40.364
Malena DeMartini: But for me, it's really hard to think about implementing behavior modification for separation-related behaviors when I know that some of that is inspired by discomfort, pain, and rest, yeah.

01:03:40.364 --> 01:03:49.724
Isabel Alvarez Arata: That is such a great point, and I'm so happy you made that because I keep saying is we adjust for the incontinence.

01:03:49.824 --> 01:03:57.664
Isabel Alvarez Arata: We adjust for the, you know, we buy the extra expensive supplement for the joint pain and inflammation.

01:03:57.664 --> 01:03:59.264
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Sometimes we just need to adjust.

01:03:59.264 --> 01:04:00.764
Malena DeMartini: Or the poop pad and all the same.

01:04:00.764 --> 01:04:02.444
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Yes, exactly, exactly.

01:04:02.444 --> 01:04:20.144
Isabel Alvarez Arata: But we have to sometimes adjust for these behavioral, emotional, psychological things that are going on as well that are sometimes forgotten because there's no visible pain or no veterinarian telling you that there's 60% arthritis in the hips or whatever.

01:04:20.144 --> 01:04:22.884
Isabel Alvarez Arata: There's no way of really understanding it.

01:04:22.884 --> 01:04:30.364
Isabel Alvarez Arata: But if you finally figure out that your 14-year-old dog is extra attached, it's just time to manage at that point.

01:04:30.364 --> 01:04:32.204
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I agree with you.

01:04:32.204 --> 01:04:36.184
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Well, okay, so how can my audience learn more about everything that you offer?

01:04:36.184 --> 01:04:37.944
Isabel Alvarez Arata: All of your expertise.

01:04:37.964 --> 01:04:41.844
Isabel Alvarez Arata: How many dog trainers have you even educated at this point?

01:04:41.844 --> 01:04:47.104
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Where can they find a dog trainer near them if they want to find somebody who's certified by you?

01:04:47.104 --> 01:04:48.024
Malena DeMartini: Okay.

01:04:48.024 --> 01:05:01.644
Malena DeMartini: Well, feel free, anybody, whether you are a dog guardian pet parent, whether you are a dog professional, a behavior consultant, a trainer, whether you are a vet, a veterinary behaviorist, a vet tech, just go to my website.

01:05:01.644 --> 01:05:06.824
Malena DeMartini: There's a ton of free information there for anybody to use.

01:05:06.864 --> 01:05:08.864
Malena DeMartini: The website is malenedemartini.com.

01:05:11.324 --> 01:05:13.364
Malena DeMartini: Should I spell it or will it be in the show notes?

01:05:13.364 --> 01:05:17.164
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I'll put it in the show notes and I will put it in the video so that everybody can jot it down.

01:05:17.164 --> 01:05:17.744
Malena DeMartini: Oh, thank you.

01:05:17.744 --> 01:05:18.784
Malena DeMartini: That would be great.

01:05:18.784 --> 01:05:25.304
Malena DeMartini: And there are a number of ways that we can support individuals.

01:05:25.304 --> 01:05:37.524
Malena DeMartini: Right now, I think I've sort of lost count, but it's over 250 certified separation anxiety trainers that have graduated from my program.

01:05:37.524 --> 01:05:43.244
Malena DeMartini: We are all over the world and we do all of our work remotely.

01:05:43.244 --> 01:05:43.984
Malena DeMartini: Because guess what?

01:05:43.984 --> 01:05:47.024
Malena DeMartini: If I show up at your house, that's not about leaving your dog alone.

01:05:47.024 --> 01:05:58.144
Malena DeMartini: So everything we do is work with our clients remotely, five days a week typically, which is unheard of in our industry.

01:06:01.584 --> 01:06:08.524
Malena DeMartini: And you can go to my website and search by location, meeting location from a time zone perspective.

01:06:08.564 --> 01:06:11.344
Malena DeMartini: Great.

01:06:11.344 --> 01:06:14.344
Malena DeMartini: And also from a language perspective.

01:06:14.344 --> 01:06:22.364
Malena DeMartini: So if you are not English speaking, there are a number of language opportunities of trainers and behavior consultants on the website.

01:06:22.364 --> 01:06:25.324
Malena DeMartini: So you can search by a variety of different parameters.

01:06:25.724 --> 01:06:30.504
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Well, thank you so much for your time, for educating me and my audience.

01:06:30.504 --> 01:06:31.584
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I love talking to you.

01:06:31.584 --> 01:06:32.384
Isabel Alvarez Arata: So here's to you.

01:06:32.384 --> 01:06:35.164
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Thank you for all you do for these beautiful dogs.

01:06:35.184 --> 01:06:37.964
Isabel Alvarez Arata: They just want a little extra attention.

01:06:37.964 --> 01:06:39.324
Malena DeMartini: Thank you as well.

01:06:39.324 --> 01:06:39.944
Malena DeMartini: Cheers.

01:06:39.944 --> 01:06:41.064
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Cheers.

01:06:41.064 --> 01:06:44.004
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I also want to propose a toast to my executive producer, Mark Winter.

01:06:44.004 --> 01:06:44.664
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Thank you, Mark.

01:06:44.664 --> 01:06:47.904
Isabel Alvarez Arata: And to our audience for joining us for these awesome conversations.

01:06:47.904 --> 01:06:51.104
Isabel Alvarez Arata: I hope that you took as much from this as I did.

01:06:51.104 --> 01:06:52.884
Isabel Alvarez Arata: It filled my heart to talk to you, Malena.

01:06:52.884 --> 01:06:54.624
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Here's to a life covered in pet hair.

01:06:55.044 --> 01:06:56.684
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Because there's no better way to live.

01:06:56.684 --> 01:06:57.564
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Cheers!

01:06:57.564 --> 01:06:58.964
Malena DeMartini: Better way to live.

01:06:58.964 --> 01:07:04.864
Isabel Alvarez Arata: To learn more about Covered In Pet Hair, please visit coveredinpethair.com or petliferadio.com.

01:07:04.864 --> 01:07:07.664
Isabel Alvarez Arata: Thanks for watching and I'll see you next time.

01:07:07.724 --> 01:07:13.644
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