ER VET

In this episode of ER VET, Dr. Justine Lee, DACVECC, DABT talks to Dr. Martha Cline, DACVIM (Nutrition) on how to help your dog lose weight! We know that almost 60% of dogs out there are overweight or obese, and it can result in a lot of secondary medical problems and affect your pet’s quality of life! Tune in to learn how to extend your dog’s life and get some diet tips for your pet to keep them as healthy as possible!

BIO:

Dr. Martha Cline joined Nestlé Purina PetCare in 2021 as a Veterinary Communications Manager. She provides technical education support for Purina’s veterinary sales division and for veterinary teaching hospitals throughout the Northeast and Midwest.

Dr. Cline is a graduate of the University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine. After completing a small animal rotating internship in New Jersey, she returned to the University of Tennessee for a small animal clinical nutrition residency. Dr. Cline is board certified with the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (Nutrition). Prior to joining Nestlé Purina PetCare, she practiced clinical nutrition full time at a large specialty hospital in New Jersey (2013-2021) where she still provides clinical support.

Dr. Cline is the past president of the American Academy of Veterinary Nutrition. She has lectured on topics surrounding veterinary nutrition at regional, national, and international conferences. Dr. Cline is also an author and co-author of several book chapters and peer-reviewed articles in veterinary nutrition. In 2021, she served at the Chair of the AAHA Task Force for the Nutrition and Weight Management Guidelines. She is also the co-editor of the textbook “Obesity in the Dog and Cat.” In her spare time, she enjoys running with her English pointer, Dave. She also shares her home with her husband and two orange cats, Jake and Charles.

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Welcome to ER Vet on Pet Life Radio.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I'm your host, Dr.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Justine Lee, and I'm a board certified emergency critical care veterinary specialist and toxicologist.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Thanks for joining us.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Today, we're going to be talking about something that all you dog owners, especially all of you dog owners of Labrador Retrievers and Golden Retrievers must tune in on.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And that's a growing problem of obesity.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's a really important topic, so please don't tune away.

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Dr. Justine Lee: This is a really important one that could actually add an average of 1.4 years onto your dog and maybe cat's life.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And I'm really excited to be speaking with board-certified veterinary nutritionist, Dr.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Martha Cline.

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Dr. Justine Lee: We'll be right back after these messages.

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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Welcome back to ER Vet on Pet Life Radio.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Really excited to be talking with Dr.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Martha Cline.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Martha, thank you so much for joining us today.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Love what you do, and can't wait to do today's radio show.

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Dr. Martha Cline: Yeah, I'm so happy to be here.

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Dr. Martha Cline: Thank you for having me.

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Dr. Justine Lee: All right, just so our pet owning population knows a little bit about you, do you mind just telling us about where you trained, where you did your veterinary school, where you did your residency program in nutrition, and what the difference is between a regular veterinarian and one who's board certified in veterinary nutrition?

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Dr. Martha Cline: Well, thank you so much, Justine.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So I went to the University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine and graduated with my veterinary degree.

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Dr. Martha Cline: After that, I went on and did an internship, and then I returned to the University of Tennessee to do my small animal clinical nutrition residency.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And at the end of that, I became a diplomat.

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Dr. Martha Cline: I'm a board certified veterinary nutritionist.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Wonderful, thank you so much.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You know, it's so, so important because I know there's always questions about what to feed your pet, how much to feed.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And so we're gonna talk about some of that, but it should be no surprise to pet owners that unfortunately, obesity is a major problem in our four-legged friends.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And the Association for Pet Obesity Prevention recently released the results of their latest study on obesity prevalence.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And it revealed that 59%, that's almost three out of five dogs are overweight or obese.

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Dr. Justine Lee: At the same time, Dr.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Cline, you have some information that would tell us many dog owners simply don't realize that their pets are overweight.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Do you mind just giving me some information on this?

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Dr. Martha Cline: Yeah, so the ProPlan Veterinary Diets Weight Survey, those results actually found that one in five owners acknowledged that they had an overweight dog, which is in contrast to what we can see with the Association of Pet Obesity Prevention.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And I actually think that really reflects a lot of what I see in clinical practice.

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Dr. Martha Cline: There's a lot of pet owners, and I'm sure you've experienced this as well, is that they come into the clinic and they have a pet owner that we would recognize is having excess body weight, but the pet owner maybe doesn't actually recognize that that is the case.

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Dr. Martha Cline: Interestingly, there was a study that was published last year in 2022 looking at veterinarian owner perception about pet weight.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And pet owners actually considered weight to be a really valuable health indicator, but what was really interesting is that they put more value on underweight versus overweight.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And so it does present a challenge for me as a veterinarian in the exam room when I'm practicing and seeing my nutrition cases, because there is often a disconnect, I think, between pet owners and having that recognition.

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Dr. Martha Cline: Now the normal, if we're talking about 59% of dogs, that's the majority of dogs.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So, you know, what is normal now for them?

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Dr. Martha Cline: So normal and ideal weight are not the same.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Thank you so much for that information.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You know, I know that even decades ago, we started something called a body condition score, or a BCS, and Purina was actually instrumental in creating the Purina Body Condition Score Guide, where we all learned on a system of one through nine, how to quote, grade a dog or cat.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And don't worry, it doesn't mean you failed, but it's just basically letting us have a numeric visualization of scoring your pet.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So nine would be really, really obese.

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Dr. Justine Lee: One would be emaciated and really thin.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And you really want your pet to be, I'm going to say, a four to five, four and a half.

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Dr. Martha Cline: That's right.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And I always say to Labrador Retriever owners, if you own a Labrador and someone comes up to you and says, oh, your lab is so skinny, that means your lab is perfect, right?

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Dr. Justine Lee: That is like a four-

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Dr. Justine Lee: So do you mind just giving us some clues besides physically feeling the ribs?

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Dr. Justine Lee: What can a dog owner do to tell if their pet is overweight?

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Dr. Justine Lee: How do we tell?

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Dr. Martha Cline: Yeah, so one thing for pet owners to recognize about the body condition scoring system is that this is a validated scale that correlates with body fat percentage.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So when you're a veterinarian is doing a body condition score and maybe in the exam room of some of the vet hospitals that you've been in, you've even seen these charts hanging on the walls, but the Purina scales that were developed, they correlate with body fat percentage.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And the nine point scale has been endorsed by the World's Small Animal Veterinary Association and the American Animal Hospital Association for universal adoption.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So this is a pretty universal scale that a lot of veterinarians are gonna adopt into practice.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And so when I am doing a body condition score system, sometimes people will call it like a healthy hug.

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Dr. Martha Cline: But I also sometimes when I'm demonstrating to pet owners is I'll even use like the palm of my hand.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So I can't feel the bones when I feel across the palm of my hand.

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Dr. Martha Cline: It's like feeling across the ribs.

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Dr. Martha Cline: You don't wanna do that.

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Dr. Martha Cline: But if you flip your hand over and you hold your hand flat and you feel along the back of your hand, you can feel those bones.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And that's really how we want the ribs to feel.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So you're gonna feel along the ribs and you should be able to feel them, not necessarily see them.

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Dr. Martha Cline: Sometimes in really lean dogs and ones that have short hair, sometimes not all of the ribs, but maybe the ones in the back.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And then looking at them from the top, you wanna make sure that they have a waist, from the side that they have a tuck right after those last ribs.

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Dr. Martha Cline: You can also feel along their back and feel for those hip bones.

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Dr. Martha Cline: You don't want them to protrude, but you wanna be able to feel them.

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Dr. Martha Cline: Sometimes we can't always feel them.

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Dr. Martha Cline: I'll fill along the tail base and try to feel if there's a little dimple above the tail.

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Dr. Martha Cline: There shouldn't be one.

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Dr. Martha Cline: But those are some of the ways that we're going to assess for the body condition scoring system.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So again, if you're in the exam room and you see those charts on the walls, there'll be some descriptors written beside that, but that's not a made up scale.

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Dr. Martha Cline: It is actually something that is validated to correlate with the pet's body fat percentage and is used in a lot of scientific research.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Wonderful.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Thank you for that information.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You know, I will sadly say that when I work with new veterinary graduates or veterinary students, they often are so used to seeing overweight and obese animals.

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Dr. Justine Lee: When I'm looking through the medical records, they'll say, oh, this dog or cat is a five out of nine or six out of nine.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I'm like, no, it's actually a seven to eight out of nine.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's really, really overweight.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's really obese.

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Dr. Justine Lee: We're just so used to it.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And I'm gonna ask you a little bit about a long-term 14-year Purina study that was done a little bit later.

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Dr. Justine Lee: But again, really, really important that you are feeling the sides of your pet, your dog or cat every single day.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's not just a matter of feeding the bull, it's feeding the pet.

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Dr. Justine Lee: I know that when I run with my dog more in the spring and summer, that I need to feed my dog more because I can literally feel his ribs through his coat because he gets a lot more exercise.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And it's a total normal Minnesotan thing where like pets and humans gain at least five pounds during the winter because we have six months of winter.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So I actually feed less in the winter for both of my dogs.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So again, it's not a matter of just scooping out the same amount every day.

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Dr. Justine Lee: It's a matter of actually petting your pet and feeling and seeing if they have that tuck in their waist, whether or not they have that fat pad over their tail area.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So important.

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Dr. Justine Lee: One of my favorite words of advice that I always give to dog owners, especially if they have a purebred, is to go to the AKC website.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And the main reason why is because if you go to the AKC website, you will see what the classic golden retriever or the classic doberman pincher or whatever breed you may have, they will actually list what the classic weight is.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And a lot of people, like the average Labrador retriever that I see come in, they're usually 88 to 90 pounds in the ER.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And if you look on the website, it's actually 75 pounds, right?

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Dr. Justine Lee: So that's a really good general guideline of what your ideal breed's weight should be.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So great resource to be able to look at that.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So again, really important information when it comes to your own health, your pet's health, because we want them to live longer.

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Dr. Justine Lee: All right, now I know that I previously mentioned it, but do you mind just giving me a short summary of what that Purina 14-year study looked at in dogs?

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Dr. Martha Cline: Yeah, so sometimes we'll call it the Purina Lifespan Study, but this was a really pivotal paper that was published just for veterinary nutrition in general.

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Dr. Martha Cline: It is a study that looked at 48 Labrador Retrievers that were split into two different groups, and they were followed over their entire life.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So this study was about 14 years long.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And what they did, the two different groups, so one group was the control group of dogs, and then the other group, they were fed 25% less than their matched pair over the course of their entire lifetime.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And so they were called the feed-restricted group.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And when Purina looked at the body condition score, so the mean body condition score between the ages of 6 to 12 years of age, the dogs that were in the feed-restricted groups, so the 25% less, they were about 4.6.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So that would be ideal.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So 4 out of 9 would be considered ideal.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And then the dogs that were in the control group were about 6.7, so between 6 and 7.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So that would be what we would classify as overweight.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So one of the things that I always really emphasize is that this is not an obesity study.

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Dr. Martha Cline: This is a overweight dog study.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So now the results that they found, I think are really important because as a veterinary nutritionist in the exam room, when I'm talking to owners and I have clients and they're like, what is the one thing that I can do to help my dog live as long as possible and have the best quality of life?

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Dr. Martha Cline: And one of the things that I'll tell them is the best thing you can do and we actually have prospective evidence to show is by keeping them lean.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And again, it's not just in the overweight category or compared to obese, this is looking at dogs in the overweight category compared to lean dogs.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So the dogs that were in the feed restricted group, their median lifespan, so the time when half of the dogs had passed on and half of them were still alive was 13 years compared to 11.2 years in the control fed group.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So it's almost two years of extra life that these Labradors got.

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Dr. Martha Cline: Some of the other really important findings is that the dogs, when we looked at osteoarthritis, so these were Labradors, so osteoarthritis is going to be one of the most common things we're gonna see in these dogs, but the prevalence and the severity of osteoarthritis was significantly decreased.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So the time that these dogs needed treatment was 13.3 years versus 10.3 years.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So almost a delay of three years of needing treatment for that.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And then just chronic diseases in general.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So if we just group every single chronic disease in a category, it was 12 years versus 9.9 years.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So almost two additional years.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So it's not only the lifespan benefit, but it's also treatment for chronic disease, treatment for osteoarthritis.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And a lot of those things correlate with quality of life in these animals.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And so that's one of the things I really talk to owners about.

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Dr. Martha Cline: Cause they'll come to me and they'll be like, is there a supplement I can give?

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Dr. Martha Cline: Is there like a very specific diet that I can feed?

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Dr. Martha Cline: What is the like one best diet for all animals?

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Dr. Martha Cline: And newsflash, there's lots of really good diets out there and not one animal needs the same thing as the other animal.

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Dr. Martha Cline: But the one thing that I would say translates across the board is trying to keep your dog lean.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Thank you so much, Dr.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Klein.

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Dr. Justine Lee: You know, you just answered my next question about like overweight and obese body conditions, putting a pet's physical health at risk.

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Dr. Justine Lee: And again, we know based off that study, that that excess weight can really have a negative effect, not only on the health in terms of osteoarthritis and quality of life, but it could potentially have a negative effect on the relationship between dogs and their owners.

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Dr. Justine Lee: What can you tell us about that?

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Dr. Martha Cline: Yeah, so when we look back at the Pearl Plan Veterinary Diet Survey, 92% of the owners that had dogs with excess body weight, they were sad that their dogs can't participate in their different activities.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And so a lot of these owners did report, you know, their pets having less energy, they would tire more easily after various activities, they have trouble climbing the stairs, which is a common complaint that I've heard in clinical practice, or they're just less engaged and less playful.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And so that's something too, that a lot of these interactions really play into the human animal bonds, and that a lot of pet owners, and I've heard this many times, I've done a lot of successful weight management programs with pet owners, and it does take a lot of work.

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Dr. Martha Cline: It's not as simple as just, I'm gonna give you recommendations on day one and see you later, I hope it goes well.

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Dr. Martha Cline: So there's a lot of maintenance that goes along with working with your veterinarian and working with the veterinary team with helping your pet achieve a more idle weight.

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Dr. Martha Cline: But I think one of the things that I've gotten back more than anything from feedback is just how much more engaged the pet is.

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Dr. Martha Cline: Pet owners will often talk about their dogs acting like a puppies again, and being able to just engage more with the family and participate more with the family.

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Dr. Justine Lee: So, so important.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Again, really important that pet owners recognize when their pets are overweight, just because we know the impact.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Again, not only because of the health impacts, but because of that effect on the human-animal bond.

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Dr. Justine Lee: Now, if owners know that being overweight makes their dogs more sedentary and less playful, or arguably less happy, what do you think the bearer is?

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Dr. Justine Lee: Like, why don't they take action?

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Dr. Martha Cline: Yeah, and there's a thing we'll call readiness to change, and we'll, we talk about it a lot of times with nutrition recommendations, and this really goes into play with weight management and owners, one, recognizing that their pet has excess body weight, and not only recognizing it, but then also being ready to make those changes.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And when clients are ready to make those changes, our pet owners are ready to make those changes, it's really important for the veterinary team to be prepared and engaged with those pet owners and to provide specific recommendations for them that not just include the main diet, but also treats and exercise recommendations.

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Dr. Martha Cline: One of the biggest things that I have found that a lot of owners really feel guilty about not giving their pet food or as much food.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And what's interesting about the ProPlan Veterinary Diet Survey is they actually found 75% of those owners that had a awake dog, even though a lot of those owners recognize, they recognize that it's a problem, but they actually feel really guilty about when their pets seem hungry.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And so from a clinical perspective, one thing that I'll talk to pet owners about is how to manage begging behaviors, because this can be really stressful for the owner.

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Dr. Martha Cline: And they perceive it as also being really stressful for the pet.

00:17:25.614 --> 00:17:29.454
Dr. Martha Cline: But we have to keep in mind that begging behaviors are a behavior.

00:17:29.474 --> 00:17:40.954
Dr. Martha Cline: And so if you have a pet that comes to you and looks really adorable and is begging for food, and I have a lot of really cute patients, and I'm sorry, a lot of people listening now, they have a lot of really cute dogs.

00:17:41.274 --> 00:17:46.574
Dr. Martha Cline: But if you give them a food item, you've positively reinforced that behavior.

00:17:46.794 --> 00:17:52.974
Dr. Martha Cline: That's actually been a light bulb moment for a lot of my pet owners is that these animals aren't coming to them because they're starving.

00:17:53.194 --> 00:17:57.514
Dr. Martha Cline: This is actually a learned behavior that's been positively reinforced in their animal.

00:17:58.114 --> 00:18:03.834
Dr. Martha Cline: And so we will often talk about different solutions to be able to manage that in the home.

00:18:04.574 --> 00:18:07.794
Dr. Martha Cline: I don't want to take away all treats from dogs.

00:18:08.214 --> 00:18:11.714
Dr. Martha Cline: I want to try to manage that within a certain treat allowance.

00:18:11.734 --> 00:18:16.194
Dr. Martha Cline: So it may involve the same amount of treats, but maybe smaller treats.

00:18:16.574 --> 00:18:19.674
Dr. Martha Cline: So there's a lot of different strategies and ways to be able to handle that.

00:18:19.854 --> 00:18:25.354
Dr. Martha Cline: But I think it's really important for owners to recognize that begging behaviors do not mean the pet is starving.

00:18:25.694 --> 00:18:31.994
Dr. Martha Cline: They need to recognize that it is actually a learned behavior that has been positively reinforced in a lot of these animals.

00:18:32.434 --> 00:18:42.974
Dr. Justine Lee: You know, I'm going to be very empathetic to dog and cat owners out there because I remember getting in a fight with our internist at the clinic I used to work at because my cat has severe food allergies.

00:18:43.414 --> 00:18:46.554
Dr. Justine Lee: And he bluntly said, the internist said, Pets don't need treats.

00:18:46.574 --> 00:18:49.034
Dr. Justine Lee: I was like, I know they don't need treats, but I want to give something.

00:18:50.134 --> 00:18:51.674
Dr. Justine Lee: So I totally get it.

00:18:51.694 --> 00:18:52.234
Dr. Martha Cline: Oh, yeah.

00:18:52.334 --> 00:18:54.014
Dr. Martha Cline: I give my cats treats.

00:18:54.234 --> 00:19:00.374
Dr. Martha Cline: And, you know, it's funny, my cats, they beg, beg.

00:19:00.794 --> 00:19:04.454
Dr. Martha Cline: I'm very fortunate that I have a dog that is not a beggar.

00:19:04.734 --> 00:19:07.494
Dr. Martha Cline: But part of that is because we have not reinforced that in there.

00:19:07.534 --> 00:19:10.254
Dr. Martha Cline: But I did not teach these cats how to beg for food.

00:19:10.274 --> 00:19:12.274
Dr. Martha Cline: They are just natural beggars.

00:19:13.454 --> 00:19:14.714
Dr. Justine Lee: You know, it's especially hard.

00:19:14.734 --> 00:19:23.814
Dr. Justine Lee: I know we've been talking more about dogs, by the way, I think you guys should do the 14 year study or the longevity study in cats, because we want to know the information in cats.

00:19:24.274 --> 00:19:29.394
Dr. Justine Lee: It is a lot harder in cats oftentimes, because oftentimes cats will wake you up at 5 a.m.

00:19:29.414 --> 00:19:30.614
Dr. Justine Lee: because they want to be fed.

00:19:31.174 --> 00:19:35.934
Dr. Justine Lee: And I will personally say for me, I want to make sure my cat isn't overweight.

00:19:35.954 --> 00:19:38.694
Dr. Justine Lee: So my cat's about a five out of nine body condition score.

00:19:38.954 --> 00:19:49.954
Dr. Justine Lee: And in full disclosure, I know this is controversial, especially among internists and among nutritionists, but I actually do feed my cat and one of my dogs with a feeder robot.

00:19:50.334 --> 00:19:56.874
Dr. Justine Lee: And I do it where they get an eighth of a cup or my cat gets an eighth of a cup starting as early as 4 a.m.

00:19:57.314 --> 00:20:01.754
Dr. Justine Lee: So I don't hear the feeder robot going off and my cat doesn't beg.

00:20:02.034 --> 00:20:08.294
Dr. Justine Lee: So that for me has been really instrumental in appeasing my cat while letting everybody rest.

00:20:08.554 --> 00:20:11.594
Dr. Martha Cline: That is a strategy that I have had to use as well.

00:20:11.774 --> 00:20:30.434
Dr. Martha Cline: For some of my clients with cats, because people, it is important as a veterinarian that when I'm making nutrition recommendations, again, it's not just saying here feed this diet, is that we're addressing not only the diet, but we need to address the feeding management in the household too.

00:20:30.594 --> 00:20:40.854
Dr. Martha Cline: And so when I'm doing these nutrition assessments on these patients is it's, I'm assessing your pet, I'm assessing what they're currently eating, but I'm also gonna ask questions about the environment.

00:20:41.594 --> 00:20:43.574
Dr. Martha Cline: And so that actually brings up a really good point.

00:20:43.954 --> 00:20:57.154
Dr. Justine Lee: Last thing that I wanted to talk about on a side tangent when it comes to cats, I know there's several different types of smart litter box monitoring systems out there that can monitor your cat's weight when they use a litter box.

00:20:57.754 --> 00:21:05.654
Dr. Justine Lee: And both of my cats, both had chronic medical problems going on, one had chronic kidney disease, one had cancer.

00:21:05.794 --> 00:21:09.034
Dr. Justine Lee: And so I was one of those crazy cat ladies, which I will fully disclose.

00:21:09.094 --> 00:21:10.954
Dr. Justine Lee: I am that way as a veterinarian.

00:21:11.154 --> 00:21:21.214
Dr. Justine Lee: But I had it on my Google calendar where I would weigh both my cats once a month and track it because I wanted to make sure that they weren't losing weight, they weren't gaining too much weight.

00:21:21.354 --> 00:21:29.534
Dr. Justine Lee: And again, that's so much simpler now because technology has gotten better versus like weighing your cat with me and then weighing myself on the scale and doing hard math.

00:21:29.574 --> 00:21:35.734
Dr. Justine Lee: But now the technology is out there where you could monitor your cat through these smart litter box monitoring systems.

00:21:35.754 --> 00:21:39.774
Dr. Justine Lee: So again, don't forget about cats when it comes to being overweight too.

00:21:40.154 --> 00:21:43.734
Dr. Justine Lee: We're going to continue with this really important topic and right back with Dr.

00:21:43.754 --> 00:21:45.494
Dr. Justine Lee: Cline right after these messages.

00:21:48.934 --> 00:21:50.634
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00:23:01.863 --> 00:23:03.863
Dr. Justine Lee: Welcome back to ER Vet on Pet Life Radio.

00:23:03.883 --> 00:23:04.983
Dr. Justine Lee: We've been speaking with Dr.

00:23:05.003 --> 00:23:13.563
Dr. Justine Lee: Martha Cline, who's a board certified veterinary nutritionist, on the importance of keeping our pets, dogs or cats, as healthy as possible.

00:23:13.963 --> 00:23:23.503
Dr. Justine Lee: And knowing that almost 60% of dogs out there right now are diagnosed with obesity, we really wanna make our pets as healthy and as happy as possible.

00:23:23.963 --> 00:23:24.743
Dr. Justine Lee: Now, Dr.

00:23:24.763 --> 00:23:29.863
Dr. Justine Lee: Cline, there's no getting around the fact that getting a dog to lose weight requires making changes.

00:23:30.343 --> 00:23:33.523
Dr. Justine Lee: And that can feel really overwhelming for a dog owner.

00:23:34.123 --> 00:23:41.463
Dr. Justine Lee: As a veterinarian who's studied both the consequences and the solutions for pet obesity, what kind of advice can you offer pet owners out there?

00:23:41.963 --> 00:23:48.483
Dr. Martha Cline: So a lot of pet owners, the ones that make it into my exam room, a lot of them have tried a lot of things on their own.

00:23:48.503 --> 00:23:55.323
Dr. Martha Cline: So they've tried to cut back their current diet, they've tried to get their pet to exercise more, they try to cut back treats.

00:23:55.743 --> 00:24:05.143
Dr. Martha Cline: And so I know a lot of owners, especially once they start to seek veterinary advice, they've actually tried a lot of things and maybe it hasn't gone so well for them.

00:24:05.163 --> 00:24:10.903
Dr. Martha Cline: So the first thing I would say to a pet owner is one, talk to your veterinarian and ask for their help.

00:24:11.363 --> 00:24:20.343
Dr. Martha Cline: There are a lot of great resources and tools that veterinarians have to be able to put together really successful weight management programs for animals.

00:24:20.843 --> 00:24:24.403
Dr. Martha Cline: The main key here is the commitment to follow up.

00:24:24.843 --> 00:24:28.703
Dr. Martha Cline: And so that's when we go back, when I was talking about that readiness to change.

00:24:28.963 --> 00:24:38.143
Dr. Martha Cline: And so if you're ready to make some changes in your pet's lifestyle and make some changes in the home, because again, it's not about changing the diet.

00:24:38.463 --> 00:24:41.383
Dr. Martha Cline: You also have to look at how you manage the environment as well.

00:24:41.783 --> 00:24:47.863
Dr. Martha Cline: But asking for your veterinarian for help is really going to be the first place that I would recommend starting.

00:24:48.343 --> 00:24:57.023
Dr. Martha Cline: And we have a lot of really helpful tools to help us in terms of weight management for our dogs specifically, and cats too.

00:24:57.043 --> 00:24:57.963
Dr. Martha Cline: We don't want to forget about cats.

00:24:57.983 --> 00:25:04.603
Dr. Martha Cline: But the main thing, one of the things that I'll primarily talk to pet owners about are looking at therapeutic weight management diets.

00:25:05.123 --> 00:25:18.083
Dr. Martha Cline: And what I really want to emphasize to pet owners is that there is a really big difference between a diet that is being sold over the counter versus a diet that is being sold for a veterinarian.

00:25:18.103 --> 00:25:25.243
Dr. Martha Cline: So veterinarians are going to use a variety of therapeutic diets, often to help manage a disease process.

00:25:25.643 --> 00:25:31.283
Dr. Martha Cline: And so when we look at therapeutic weight management diets, some of the really important characters because of these diets.

00:25:31.303 --> 00:25:39.383
Dr. Martha Cline: So one of the most important things I'll talk to pet owners about is that we need a diet that has a high nutrient to calorie ratio.

00:25:39.663 --> 00:25:45.003
Dr. Martha Cline: And what that means is that I can feed less calories, but I'm not cutting back nutrients.

00:25:45.543 --> 00:25:51.903
Dr. Martha Cline: And so if you are going to feed an animal less calories, you don't want them to be protein restricted.

00:25:51.923 --> 00:25:55.063
Dr. Martha Cline: You don't want them to be restricted in certain vitamins and minerals.

00:25:55.323 --> 00:26:01.643
Dr. Martha Cline: A lot of over-the-counter diets are not formulated to have that type of calorie restriction.

00:26:01.963 --> 00:26:07.483
Dr. Martha Cline: And so when you start cutting those diets back, you can actually protein restrict your pet.

00:26:07.883 --> 00:26:10.503
Dr. Martha Cline: You can vitamin and mineral restrict that pet.

00:26:10.623 --> 00:26:13.303
Dr. Martha Cline: And that just really makes weight loss inefficient.

00:26:13.743 --> 00:26:20.003
Dr. Martha Cline: Especially when we look at protein, we really want to make sure that we're preserving an animal's lean body mass.

00:26:20.103 --> 00:26:24.563
Dr. Martha Cline: And so lean body mass is anything that's not fat mass and is not bone.

00:26:24.723 --> 00:26:27.403
Dr. Martha Cline: And that's going to be the most metabolically active tissue.

00:26:27.423 --> 00:26:31.503
Dr. Martha Cline: So that's going to be where most of our energy requirements are going to come from.

00:26:31.823 --> 00:26:35.803
Dr. Martha Cline: So if we can preserve that, that's going to help preserve that pet's metabolism.

00:26:36.283 --> 00:26:37.403
Dr. Martha Cline: That's really important.

00:26:37.423 --> 00:26:42.763
Dr. Martha Cline: So that high nutrient to calorie ratio, and then we would also say that high protein to calorie ratio.

00:26:43.123 --> 00:26:49.443
Dr. Martha Cline: The other thing that we're going to look at is providing satiety or that feeling of fullness.

00:26:49.983 --> 00:26:53.783
Dr. Martha Cline: So we don't want our pets to feel hungry.

00:26:53.803 --> 00:26:55.823
Dr. Martha Cline: We want them to feel satisfied.

00:26:55.843 --> 00:26:58.083
Dr. Martha Cline: We want them to like the food that they're eating.

00:26:58.643 --> 00:27:03.743
Dr. Martha Cline: The nutrients that provide the most satiety are typically going to be protein and fiber.

00:27:04.043 --> 00:27:12.543
Dr. Martha Cline: And so a lot of the therapeutic weight management diets, they may be supplemented with additional fiber, varying degrees of fiber, varying types of fiber.

00:27:13.143 --> 00:27:15.963
Dr. Martha Cline: Typically, all of them are going to be high protein.

00:27:16.423 --> 00:27:21.023
Dr. Martha Cline: And so those are gonna be things that are going to, again, help that animal fill full.

00:27:21.083 --> 00:27:25.163
Dr. Martha Cline: And also, again, why we're restricting calories, we're not restricting nutrients.

00:27:25.643 --> 00:27:29.203
Dr. Martha Cline: And so I'll have owners and be like, why can't I just use my diet over the counter?

00:27:29.223 --> 00:27:34.863
Dr. Martha Cline: The another reason I don't want them to do that is because typically the calorie density is a lot higher.

00:27:35.143 --> 00:27:40.983
Dr. Martha Cline: And so that means the animal is not going to be eating a large volume of food, which can affect satiety.

00:27:41.403 --> 00:27:48.063
Dr. Martha Cline: A lot of therapeutic weight loss diets are going to be less calorie dense, typically because they have added fiber to them.

00:27:48.083 --> 00:27:54.363
Dr. Martha Cline: Sometimes we'll lower the fat content because that is going to be more calorie dense than protein and carbohydrate.

00:27:54.923 --> 00:27:58.603
Dr. Martha Cline: And so again, those things from a dog standpoint are really going to help.

00:27:59.403 --> 00:28:03.983
Dr. Martha Cline: On the cat side of things, often we'll employ low carbohydrate diets.

00:28:04.323 --> 00:28:09.183
Dr. Martha Cline: Cats actually looking at high moisture diets that can provide satiety as well.

00:28:09.543 --> 00:28:11.983
Dr. Martha Cline: So there's different strategies for different animals.

00:28:12.003 --> 00:28:17.763
Dr. Martha Cline: And if there's one strategy that maybe isn't working well for an animal, sometimes maybe I would consider something different.

00:28:18.523 --> 00:28:21.843
Dr. Martha Cline: We also want to make sure again that we're looking at follow up.

00:28:22.183 --> 00:28:29.783
Dr. Martha Cline: And so when I have patients that come to see me is I will try to book that recheck appointment before they ever walk out the door.

00:28:30.403 --> 00:28:32.783
Dr. Martha Cline: So I'm making sure there's some type of accountability.

00:28:32.783 --> 00:28:34.983
Dr. Martha Cline: So there's some type of an appointment on the book.

00:28:35.443 --> 00:28:40.123
Dr. Martha Cline: And so there are certain veterinary practices that will have this kind of program already set up.

00:28:40.543 --> 00:28:46.263
Dr. Martha Cline: And so as a pet owner, I would encourage you to make that appointment before you leave that follow up appointment.

00:28:46.823 --> 00:28:50.043
Dr. Martha Cline: Justine, you mentioned smart litter box monitoring.

00:28:50.083 --> 00:28:53.183
Dr. Martha Cline: So I know getting cats to the veterinarian is really hard.

00:28:53.603 --> 00:29:01.743
Dr. Martha Cline: And so we have smart litter box monitors, like the Petivity Monitor Now, where the cats go in the litter box and will actually track their weight for them.

00:29:01.903 --> 00:29:08.943
Dr. Martha Cline: And so it's something that they don't have to get lugged to the vet every month, which is really difficult for some pet owners.

00:29:09.343 --> 00:29:12.183
Dr. Martha Cline: And so there are a lot of really nice strategies on how to do this.

00:29:12.603 --> 00:29:14.923
Dr. Martha Cline: The selecting the right diet is really important.

00:29:15.343 --> 00:29:17.023
Dr. Martha Cline: I also give treat guidelines.

00:29:17.223 --> 00:29:28.603
Dr. Martha Cline: So we don't want treats, the calories from treats, and chews and food for medication administration, rewards, any of those things to make up more than 10% of the pet's total calorie intake.

00:29:28.963 --> 00:29:30.423
Dr. Martha Cline: So that's really important as well.

00:29:30.863 --> 00:29:38.963
Dr. Martha Cline: And then from an exercise standpoint, a lot of owners, they appreciate and they want exercise recommendations as well for their pets.

00:29:39.303 --> 00:29:44.043
Dr. Martha Cline: For dogs, it's going to be variable because you have to look at the ability of the dog.

00:29:44.063 --> 00:29:50.903
Dr. Martha Cline: If this is one severely affected with osteoarthritis or a dog that has back problems, we kind of have to tailor these recommendations.

00:29:51.283 --> 00:30:00.623
Dr. Martha Cline: But sometimes starting is just as simple as 30 minutes, three times a week, or increasing whatever activity we're doing by 20 minutes a day.

00:30:01.103 --> 00:30:03.043
Dr. Martha Cline: And so those are some simple things that we can do.

00:30:03.303 --> 00:30:06.843
Dr. Martha Cline: I do not expect anybody to start taking their dog out for a 5K run.

00:30:06.863 --> 00:30:12.263
Dr. Martha Cline: So nobody's training for a race is starting out running the full race on day one.

00:30:12.663 --> 00:30:19.683
Dr. Martha Cline: But I do want to emphasize that the diet is going to be the thing that is going to give the most results.

00:30:20.203 --> 00:30:23.583
Dr. Martha Cline: And so we want to make sure that we are prioritizing that diet.

00:30:23.823 --> 00:30:24.283
Dr. Justine Lee: Wonderful.

00:30:24.303 --> 00:30:25.003
Dr. Justine Lee: Thank you so much.

00:30:25.303 --> 00:30:27.443
Dr. Justine Lee: You know, it's so important that you brought that up.

00:30:27.783 --> 00:30:33.963
Dr. Justine Lee: My mom's cat was actually on Purina OM, which stands for Overweight Management.

00:30:34.563 --> 00:30:37.483
Dr. Justine Lee: And sometimes we just need that help with that prescription diet.

00:30:37.503 --> 00:30:41.503
Dr. Justine Lee: It was also really important because that cat was middle-aged.

00:30:41.543 --> 00:30:55.283
Dr. Justine Lee: And we know in both human and veterinary medicine, as people age and as pets age, they get what they call sarcopenia or muscle wasting, which is one of the reasons why I'm in my 50s and like working out all the time because I don't want to lose that muscle.

00:30:55.583 --> 00:31:05.803
Dr. Justine Lee: So again, really, really important that you consult with your veterinarian or a veterinary nutritionist if you're trying to help your pet lose weight because we want to make sure that we're doing it appropriately.

00:31:05.823 --> 00:31:06.943
Dr. Justine Lee: They're on the right diet.

00:31:06.963 --> 00:31:12.143
Dr. Justine Lee: We give you as many hints as possible to make you, to basically set you up for success, right?

00:31:12.163 --> 00:31:13.423
Dr. Justine Lee: Because we have the evidence.

00:31:13.703 --> 00:31:23.443
Dr. Justine Lee: We know almost 60% of our pets are obese and we know what is linked to a shortened lifespan and to medical problems and osteoarthritis and decreased quality of life.

00:31:23.703 --> 00:31:31.423
Dr. Justine Lee: And while I'm guilty of loving my pets too much by feeding them extra treats, again, there's so many things we can do to make them live longer.

00:31:31.443 --> 00:31:31.483
Dr. Justine Lee: Dr.

00:31:32.003 --> 00:31:33.703
Dr. Justine Lee: Cline, fantastic information.

00:31:33.863 --> 00:31:35.723
Dr. Justine Lee: Any last tips that you want to leave with us?

00:31:36.043 --> 00:31:39.803
Dr. Martha Cline: Yeah, so I just want to thank the pet owners who have listened to this.

00:31:39.823 --> 00:31:49.443
Dr. Martha Cline: And I think a really fun thing to do is, you know, go home and look at your pet and that you can do your own body condition score on your pet.

00:31:49.463 --> 00:31:58.743
Dr. Martha Cline: So there's some really nice resources online on the Wasawa, the World Spontaneous Veterinary Association website, on the Puritan Institute website, looking at body condition scoring.

00:31:59.123 --> 00:32:01.763
Dr. Martha Cline: And then again, just ask your veterinarian for help.

00:32:01.783 --> 00:32:10.583
Dr. Martha Cline: There's veterinarians, again, they are trained, they have the skills and they have the tools to be able to make these recommendations for weight management for your pets.

00:32:10.863 --> 00:32:11.743
Dr. Justine Lee: Thank you so much.

00:32:11.803 --> 00:32:19.023
Dr. Justine Lee: You know, it truly is a simple thing that we can do at home to make our pets live a happier and healthier life.

00:32:19.343 --> 00:32:19.663
Dr. Justine Lee: Dr.

00:32:19.683 --> 00:32:20.723
Dr. Justine Lee: Cline, thank you so much.

00:32:20.903 --> 00:32:24.043
Dr. Justine Lee: Love what you do and really appreciate such fantastic information.

00:32:24.243 --> 00:32:25.163
Dr. Martha Cline: Thanks for having me.

00:32:25.543 --> 00:32:27.383
Dr. Justine Lee: Well, that brings us to the end of today's show.

00:32:27.563 --> 00:32:36.683
Dr. Justine Lee: Find me at drjustinelie.com on Facebook or Instagram at drjustinelie, or email me your questions at drjustine at petliferadio.com.

00:32:36.923 --> 00:32:40.123
Dr. Justine Lee: With that, we're out of time, and we love to thank our guests, Dr.

00:32:40.123 --> 00:32:43.943
Dr. Justine Lee: Martha Cline and Mark Winter, our producer, for making this show possible.

00:32:44.163 --> 00:32:45.323
Dr. Justine Lee: See you at the next episode.

00:32:45.883 --> 00:32:51.603
Announcer: Let's talk pets, every week on demand, only on petliferadio.com.