How Horses Inspire Our Creativity
Kate Hawkes was raised in Australia with and by horses! Her father gave her some very wise advice when she was ten years old after a horse “threw her.” He said, “The horse didn’t throw you. You fell off. What were you doing – or not doing – that make the horse knock you off?” The wisdom of recognizing that horses are mirrors for our energy, our behavior, our deeper feelings has helped shape Kate’s healing work with others. The wisdom of horses has inspired Kate to work with many people who are on their healing journey to express their creativity and to truly be themselves. Horses are expert teachers at being true to their own feelings, and because of this, they can clearly see our own selves. Being around healing horses and being truly seen -- can help us to recognize our inner lives and to learn to express ourselves in creative, honest, and joyful ways.
Listen to Episode #57 Now:
BIO:
Originally from Australia, Kate holds degrees in Education, Counseling, and an MFA in Directing. She has worked professionally in all aspects of theatre for over 40 years, including management and arts in healthcare. In Oregon, she taught in the theatre department of a liberal arts college for 18 years, founded an arts in healthcare company focusing on storytelling and performance, and was Artistic Associate at a professional theatre company.
In Arizona, Kate is co-founder/Producing Artistic Director of Red Earth Theatre (Sedona) as well as directing many of their productions. As a Director of more than 50 shows over the years – readings, full productions, classics, new works and collaborative endeavors – there are no favorites!
As an actress, favorite roles include Medea (Medea), Evy (The Gingerbread Lady), Dysart (Equus), Dian (Escape from Happiness), Artie (Eleemosynary), Latrelle (Sordid Lives) and Monique (Sky…Diamonds). She was recently in the upcoming feature film No Reception.
A playwright, her produced work includes Loplop and the Queen about Surrealist artists Max` Ernst and Dorothea Tanning; the award-winning Sky…Diamonds, exploring a family’s experience of Alzheimer’s; Ungodly Behavior, a retelling of the Demeter/Persephone story. New work includes Walking On Butterfly Wings and Triumvirate: Glory, Sacrifice and Peace. She has also had numerous 10 minute plays and plays for young audiences produced.
Kate recently ventured into the world of screenwriting with some early encouraging results, and just completed producing her first short film Horse Tales. She developed Performing Wellness ™ , and offers workshops tailored for individuals or groups. She regularly facilitates writing workshops for veterans at the VA.
Balancing all this creative endeavor is her passion for the outdoors as a horsewoman, hot-spring lover and trail runner.
Transcript:
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Announcer: Pet Life Radio This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Announcer: Welcome to The Human-Animal Connection show, where we believe we can communicate with all animals.
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Announcer: Join us as we explore the 33 principles and healing methods of The Human-Animal Connection.
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Announcer: As animal lovers, we know that you share our commitment to making the world a kinder place for all creatures.
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Announcer: Together, let's embrace the transformative healing power of The Human-Animal Connection.
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Genie Joseph: Hello, everyone.
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Genie Joseph: Welcome to The Human-Animal Connection.
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Genie Joseph: I'm so glad you're with us, because I am speaking to the very delightful Kate Hawkes.
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Genie Joseph: And she grew up with horses.
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Genie Joseph: Horses surrounded her.
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Genie Joseph: You might even say that the horses raised her, and they helped inspire her.
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Genie Joseph: And now she's in the business of inspiring others.
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Genie Joseph: She works with people with trauma.
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Genie Joseph: She helps people rediscover their stories and claim their creativity.
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Genie Joseph: So Kate, thanks for being a guest with us.
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Genie Joseph: Here on The Human-Animal Connection.
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Kate Hawkes: Well, thank you.
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Kate Hawkes: I'm just so thrilled.
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Kate Hawkes: I love this.
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Kate Hawkes: I'm happy to meet you and finally come across your amazing work in the world.
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Genie Joseph: Well, thank you.
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Genie Joseph: Thank you.
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Genie Joseph: Thank you.
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Genie Joseph: And yeah, we both agree that horses, as well, all animals, but especially horses, there is a unique way in which horses can help us heal, can help us reconnect with ourselves.
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Genie Joseph: Tell us a little bit about how you see that process.
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Kate Hawkes: Well, I think any animal, but my animal in particular seems to be the horse, force us or put us in a place where we have to pay attention to what we are doing, particularly horses.
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Kate Hawkes: Horses, you are pretty much entirely responsible for that relationship.
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Kate Hawkes: So if it doesn't go well, that's probably on you.
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Kate Hawkes: So that was one of the things that I learned growing up, was whatever happened with the horses, it was on us.
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Genie Joseph: Yes, yes.
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Kate Hawkes: So to me, that's a really valuable thing.
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Kate Hawkes: We can't say, well, the horse didn't do blah, blah.
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Kate Hawkes: Well, maybe you didn't help the horse know what you wanted.
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Genie Joseph: Exactly right.
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Genie Joseph: So it can really be like a mirror for us.
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Genie Joseph: You know, sometimes we might think, well, I'm feeling X, but the horse says, no, I think you're feeling Y, you know.
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Kate Hawkes: And I have a current horse, Millie, and if I arrive and if I am still in some depths of fury about something and I get on her, it is not a good start.
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Kate Hawkes: So that's me know what I'm bringing to the table.
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Kate Hawkes: And those are the horses that are very forgiving, but Millie's not.
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Genie Joseph: Right.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, it's very interesting how they all have different temperaments we know, but sensibilities and ability to read people differently.
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Genie Joseph: I mean, they all have the ability to read people, but I've noticed that some horses, they insist that we come at our highest level.
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Genie Joseph: Other horses is like, come as you are, whatever.
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Kate Hawkes: I think that's also a wonderful thing, because that helps us understand that people are like that too.
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Kate Hawkes: But every time people come and work with my horses, I end up saying something will happen with the horse.
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Kate Hawkes: Right.
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Kate Hawkes: The horse will just run over them.
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Kate Hawkes: They can't stop the horse from walking all over them.
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Kate Hawkes: And I will say, does this happen to you in your life with people?
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Kate Hawkes: And they'll go, yeah, it does.
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Kate Hawkes: I go, okay.
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Kate Hawkes: So that's practice creating space.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: Very interesting.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: The horses have a sense of space.
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Genie Joseph: It's so profound, their sense of space and what they want in terms of either closeness or distance.
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Genie Joseph: And it's a moving target.
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Genie Joseph: It's not like it's the same thing all the time.
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Genie Joseph: It's based upon the individual.
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Genie Joseph: They get that feeling.
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Genie Joseph: Sometimes a horse feels like, oh, I just want to be close to this person.
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Genie Joseph: And sometimes a horse feels like, I don't want to be close to this person.
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Genie Joseph: And yeah, it's like, well, in your opinion, what is the how of how do horses sense our deeper emotions, maybe even more than we can tell ourselves?
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Kate Hawkes: Oh, I don't know.
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Kate Hawkes: I think, I think actually people are able to sense other people.
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Kate Hawkes: Where they're at.
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Kate Hawkes: When we get out of our way, we're not overthinking it.
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Kate Hawkes: So I think the thing about horses, not all horses, like we just said, they're a little bit different.
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Kate Hawkes: Horses, because they're not overthinking, because they're not thinking, there's this person like me, or that person's got a funny dress on, or because they're just totally in their moment, they are, I think, much more able to pick up on whatever it is we're putting out there.
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Kate Hawkes: Think about how people to people interactions go.
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Kate Hawkes: We are generally watching ourselves and worrying about ourselves at the same time as we're trying to have a conversation with someone.
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Kate Hawkes: So that thing blocks up a section of them.
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Kate Hawkes: Horses generally don't have that.
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Genie Joseph: Wonderful.
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Genie Joseph: So they're like a clear channel.
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Genie Joseph: They're just like hoping to receive, because they're not worried about how they look, or what's wrong with them, or some other idea that they have going.
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Genie Joseph: They're just here with us.
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Kate Hawkes: And they're not already planning their argument.
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Kate Hawkes: Right.
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Kate Hawkes: There are some horses that come to the table, and what they really want is a friend and comfort.
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Kate Hawkes: So they perceive you a little differently.
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Kate Hawkes: They're probably more allowing you to pick up on any aggression you may have.
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Kate Hawkes: And then you have, like my Millie, you have the horses that come in, and they are just, you know, they're just like, yeah, show me.
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Genie Joseph: Show me what you got.
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Genie Joseph: Show me who you are.
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Kate Hawkes: She reminds me that I have to pull my energy way down.
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Kate Hawkes: I have to get very focused, but I have to get very clear, because if I come in with a lot of aggressive energy, she's going to fight me.
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Kate Hawkes: And if I come in and I'm very clear, she's more likely to go, oh, you are still in charge.
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Kate Hawkes: Okay, okay, just checking.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, fascinating.
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Genie Joseph: Fascinating, yeah.
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Genie Joseph: So yeah, it's interesting about, the horses have a hierarchy, would you say?
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Genie Joseph: They have a hierarchy in the herd, and everybody kind of knows their place.
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Genie Joseph: And I think with, unlike with humans, which is constantly, like we're constantly jockeying and trying to, you know, readjust the order, the horses have a sense of where they fit in the herd, and everyone kind of, well, I can't say everyone fits, because there's sometimes that it doesn't fit, but tell us about that.
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Genie Joseph: What have you noticed about that?
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Kate Hawkes: Well, I think again, it depends very much on the temperament of the horse.
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Kate Hawkes: Like there are horses that like to be followers, and there are horses that want to be leaders.
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Kate Hawkes: So I had, since I've been in Oregon, I mean, in Arizona, I was in Oregon before I was here, so I'm in no way.
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Kate Hawkes: But I've had some very different horses.
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Kate Hawkes: So Mariah, who's now 27, and she gave her to one of my students.
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Kate Hawkes: So she is still wearing my horses, and she's not, I don't have to pay her bills, but I get to see her every day.
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Kate Hawkes: But Mariah's always been a very dominant mare.
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Kate Hawkes: She was not good at sharing anything with other horses.
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Kate Hawkes: My put her in because she immediately, it took her 24 hours to work out.
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Kate Hawkes: She could actually keep an eye on both lots of feed.
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Kate Hawkes: Follow the horse next door.
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Kate Hawkes: Like when she was on her own, she just paced.
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Kate Hawkes: And then there's Bella, who wants nothing more than a leader.
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Kate Hawkes: She wants nothing more than another horse she can follow around.
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Kate Hawkes: So what I've noticed is, while they have their places in a herd, it really depends a lot on their temperament and their needs.
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Kate Hawkes: I also think that they changed over time.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, I was going to say, what happens if a herd has a leader, and for whatever reason the leader passes, does somebody else step up to the plate?
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Genie Joseph: Is it easy?
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Genie Joseph: Is it quick?
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Genie Joseph: Is it known?
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Genie Joseph: Is it a process?
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Genie Joseph: What have you noticed?
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Kate Hawkes: Sure, because my horses are not in the wild.
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Kate Hawkes: My horses are in corrals.
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Kate Hawkes: What I have noticed, I also gave Bella away a year or so ago.
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Kate Hawkes: I had too many horses.
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Kate Hawkes: So one of the things I realized was I wasn't really doing right by any of them.
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Kate Hawkes: I found the right person for each of them.
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Kate Hawkes: So Bella has gone to Danny, who's a massage therapist.
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Kate Hawkes: Bella is so happy.
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Kate Hawkes: Like Bella, I had Bella for six years, but I was not Bella's person.
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Kate Hawkes: She learned a lot, but she loves Danny.
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Kate Hawkes: She'd do anything for Danny.
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Kate Hawkes: Of course, if she saw a paper bag on the ground, wanted to run to the other side of the world.
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Kate Hawkes: She let Danny dress her in a sheet to be a ghost horse for Halloween.
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Genie Joseph: Aw, that's amazing.
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Genie Joseph: It's amazing how particular the relationship is very unique.
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Genie Joseph: It's not like they have the same relationship with everyone.
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Kate Hawkes: I think it's a really excellent thing for us to experience.
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Kate Hawkes: As we go out in the world with people, they'll like us and some people won't.
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Kate Hawkes: Some people won't like others, but we can always behave well.
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Genie Joseph: Yes.
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Kate Hawkes: Same.
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Kate Hawkes: You've seen that, right?
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Kate Hawkes: Horses will just totally love one person and not so much the others.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, it's fascinating.
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Genie Joseph: So tell us a little bit about working with trauma with horses, people who had trauma.
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Kate Hawkes: Well, I want to preface this by saying, there are many people who do a lot of deep work with horses and trauma.
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Kate Hawkes: Like it's their business.
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Kate Hawkes: For me, I sort of came in it accidentally.
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Kate Hawkes: I mean, I've always known how horses work for me, but I do a lot of creative work with people with trauma, writing based, performance writing based.
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Kate Hawkes: So I'm often meeting people who have whatever's happening in their lives.
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Kate Hawkes: I meet them through the world of theater and storytelling.
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Kate Hawkes: And I will start talking about my horses.
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Kate Hawkes: And people will say, oh, you know, I'm afraid of horses and I've always wanted to.
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Kate Hawkes: So people will come and they will spend time with the horse.
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Kate Hawkes: And it's really more about what I observe in terms of them getting to know their behavior through that relationship.
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Kate Hawkes: Right.
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Kate Hawkes: It's also about trauma and more about beginning to understand how they approach the world.
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Kate Hawkes: So if you approach the world and you're apologetic and you're sitting back and you don't want to offend anyone, that's when your horse is gonna walk all over you.
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Kate Hawkes: You approach the world and you're like, I got this and no one's gonna bother me.
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Kate Hawkes: Your horse is gonna go, nothing to do with this person.
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Kate Hawkes: Sometimes just having an interaction where over time, they had to address that.
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Kate Hawkes: They would start to see themselves and then that can go back to, so why are you loveless?
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Kate Hawkes: So I would say my work with the horses is more about opening people up to be free, to see and be who you are without judgment.
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Genie Joseph: Just, this is who you are.
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Kate Hawkes: Yes.
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Kate Hawkes: This is why you do the world, and we could change anything we want to.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, and that's such an extraordinary feeling to be really seen for who we are.
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Genie Joseph: I mean, there's so little of that going on in the world.
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Genie Joseph: I think so many people walk around feeling like there's the outside of themselves that the world sees, and there's the inside of themselves that nobody sees, and then you meet this horse who sees that in you, and it's very healing.
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Genie Joseph: It's very healing to be adored and loved, and just have a horse choose to be present in your presence without caring about what do you make, or what you drove, or who you voted for.
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Genie Joseph: It's just like, okay, I love you.
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Kate Hawkes: You have a trait in your pockets.
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Kate Hawkes: That helps, too.
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Genie Joseph: It's always good, always good.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: So you kind of combine helping people really reconnect with their creativity, telling stories, and how does that work?
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Genie Joseph: How do you get people to open that part of themselves up?
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Kate Hawkes: Well, I do this thing.
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Kate Hawkes: I trick people into writing the truth.
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Kate Hawkes: So it's like playing theater games, but with words.
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Kate Hawkes: There's a lot of writing, a lot of getting out of your own way.
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Kate Hawkes: Like don't think.
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Kate Hawkes: My rule when I do the early writing stuff is, no thinking allowed.
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Kate Hawkes: We're not thinking.
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Kate Hawkes: We're just going to pour it out, and then you look at what you have.
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Kate Hawkes: So we got to, I think we spend so much time in this world, wanting and anxious about doing the right thing.
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Kate Hawkes: There's not a lot of forgiveness, I don't think, for making a mistake, for being wrong, and for saying, oh, I didn't know that, but I know it now.
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Kate Hawkes: So the work I do, well, creative endeavor, is a lot about not knowing what you're going to do and not what it's not perfect yet.
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Kate Hawkes: And it might.
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Kate Hawkes: So I think that that's what I like to do.
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Kate Hawkes: I do it through writing.
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Kate Hawkes: I do it through theater.
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Kate Hawkes: And just, and then people discover these things.
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Kate Hawkes: They didn't even know that they had in there to tell.
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Genie Joseph: Wonderful.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: I know.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: I know.
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Genie Joseph: You know, I've done some work with 4,000 service members and veterans, their families, and we do improv comedy.
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Genie Joseph: We'll do a little bit of that and some creative writing.
00:13:48.900 --> 00:13:56.140
Genie Joseph: And it's just beautiful to see people open up and, and reclaim that playful part of themselves.
00:13:56.140 --> 00:14:01.300
Genie Joseph: Because often in trauma people, one of the things that goes is fun, you know?
00:14:01.300 --> 00:14:08.680
Genie Joseph: We have to get back to the part of ourselves that can enjoy ourselves and express ourselves freely without judgment.
00:14:09.300 --> 00:14:11.000
Genie Joseph: It's a beautiful process.
00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:19.700
Kate Hawkes: Well, I think it's also where animals come in, whether we have a dog, a cat, a horse, a guinea pig, a ferret, whatever it is you have.
00:14:19.700 --> 00:14:22.680
Kate Hawkes: Fish, maybe not so much, but people do love their fish.
00:14:22.680 --> 00:14:28.380
Kate Hawkes: But I think that animal gives us permission, and sometimes just relax and play.
00:14:28.380 --> 00:14:33.200
Kate Hawkes: I mean, how about your dog, and your dog's playing, and you throw a stick.
00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:43.580
Kate Hawkes: And with my horses, in the summer, we take them to the creek, and we just go into the water with the horses, and we're just playing in the water, in the creek.
00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:45.860
Kate Hawkes: And it's, oh, look, I'm just playing.
00:14:45.860 --> 00:14:47.860
Kate Hawkes: We're not trying to get the horse to do anything.
00:14:47.860 --> 00:14:50.300
Kate Hawkes: We're not trying to achieve anything.
00:14:50.300 --> 00:14:55.820
Kate Hawkes: We're just playing in the water, in our shorts, with big, huge horses.
00:14:55.820 --> 00:14:57.500
Kate Hawkes: It's really fun.
00:14:57.500 --> 00:14:58.120
Genie Joseph: Really fun.
00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:00.380
Genie Joseph: That sounds like great fun.
00:15:00.380 --> 00:15:01.880
Genie Joseph: That sounds like great fun.
00:15:01.880 --> 00:15:09.220
Genie Joseph: Well, we're going to take a short little break, but when we come back, I want to hear some of the stories of people that you've worked with and their process of transformation.
00:15:09.220 --> 00:15:11.540
Genie Joseph: So we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:15:11.540 --> 00:15:12.300
Genie Joseph: Don't go anywhere.
00:15:35.063 --> 00:15:38.583
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00:16:33.763 --> 00:16:38.163
Announcer: Hey friends, if you like what you're hearing and want to learn more, check out Dr.
00:16:38.163 --> 00:16:45.623
Announcer: Joseph's book, The Human-Animal Connection, Deepening Relationships with Animals and Ourselves.
00:16:45.623 --> 00:16:52.943
Announcer: Or visit the website, thehumananimalconnection.org to book an online consultation.
00:16:52.943 --> 00:16:55.303
Announcer: Thank you for loving animals.
00:16:55.303 --> 00:16:56.143
Announcer: Now back to the show.
00:16:58.503 --> 00:17:00.943
Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.
00:17:06.863 --> 00:17:09.383
Genie Joseph: Welcome back to The Human-Animal Connection.
00:17:09.383 --> 00:17:10.363
Genie Joseph: So glad you're with us.
00:17:10.363 --> 00:17:12.263
Genie Joseph: And I am speaking with Kate Hawkes.
00:17:12.263 --> 00:17:14.823
Genie Joseph: And she's telling about her life with horses.
00:17:14.823 --> 00:17:19.163
Genie Joseph: And she was just telling in the break a wonderful story about something that her father said.
00:17:19.163 --> 00:17:22.103
Genie Joseph: And Kate, tell her audience that story.
00:17:22.103 --> 00:17:23.823
Kate Hawkes: I grew up on a property in Australia.
00:17:23.963 --> 00:17:26.623
Kate Hawkes: We had horses and as kids we had horses.
00:17:27.843 --> 00:17:34.563
Kate Hawkes: And the way my father saw it was whatever happened with you and your horse was entirely your responsibility.
00:17:34.563 --> 00:17:41.563
Kate Hawkes: When I came to America, when I was 30, people would talk about their horse throwing them.
00:17:41.563 --> 00:17:43.023
Kate Hawkes: My horse threw me.
00:17:43.023 --> 00:17:44.863
Kate Hawkes: Well, I thought back to my father.
00:17:44.863 --> 00:17:50.983
Kate Hawkes: And I think once I said that, my horse threw me off and my father said, no, you fell off.
00:17:52.083 --> 00:17:55.903
Kate Hawkes: What were you doing when you came off your horse?
00:17:58.183 --> 00:18:06.183
Kate Hawkes: And generally speaking, yeah, we were doing something or not doing something that caused our horse to do something and we fell off.
00:18:06.183 --> 00:18:11.723
Kate Hawkes: Now, Elias was a big, huge like pig root or jumping over something suddenly.
00:18:11.723 --> 00:18:13.763
Kate Hawkes: That was on us.
00:18:14.303 --> 00:18:18.683
Kate Hawkes: And very quickly, I remember as a child, I had this beautiful horse I loved.
00:18:18.743 --> 00:18:21.583
Kate Hawkes: He was quite big, I was slightly over-horsed.
00:18:21.583 --> 00:18:28.803
Kate Hawkes: But I came off him, we were galloping along, he turned a corner, I didn't turn it.
00:18:28.803 --> 00:18:34.763
Kate Hawkes: But I held on to the reins, so I ended up behind my horse still holding the reins.
00:18:34.763 --> 00:18:38.223
Kate Hawkes: Quite reasonably, my horse kicked out, right?
00:18:38.223 --> 00:18:42.363
Kate Hawkes: He had a dead weight behind him and his mouth was hurting.
00:18:42.363 --> 00:18:45.403
Kate Hawkes: And I was 12 and it got me right in a very tender place.
00:18:45.403 --> 00:18:47.503
Kate Hawkes: There's a 12-year-old like there on the chest.
00:18:48.043 --> 00:18:51.223
Kate Hawkes: So there were only like 20 yards from the house.
00:18:51.223 --> 00:18:52.523
Kate Hawkes: So my horse stopped.
00:18:52.523 --> 00:18:53.443
Kate Hawkes: I mean, he just stood there.
00:18:53.443 --> 00:18:55.723
Kate Hawkes: Once I let go of the reins, he stood there.
00:18:55.723 --> 00:19:00.223
Kate Hawkes: My dad, he came running up the hill because he saw this happen.
00:19:00.223 --> 00:19:02.863
Kate Hawkes: And he goes, are you all right?
00:19:02.863 --> 00:19:04.423
Kate Hawkes: And I went, oh, oh God.
00:19:04.423 --> 00:19:07.643
Kate Hawkes: He kicked me and I said, oh well, we'll shoot the bastard.
00:19:07.643 --> 00:19:08.643
Kate Hawkes: I said, no, no, no.
00:19:08.643 --> 00:19:09.843
Kate Hawkes: He said, well, then we'll sell him.
00:19:09.843 --> 00:19:10.283
Kate Hawkes: I said, no.
00:19:10.283 --> 00:19:12.623
Kate Hawkes: He said, then get back on and ride him home.
00:19:13.443 --> 00:19:16.343
Kate Hawkes: And it was back to, and then later there's a conversation.
00:19:16.343 --> 00:19:19.243
Kate Hawkes: Well, what happened?
00:19:19.243 --> 00:19:21.363
Kate Hawkes: Big lesson, let go of the rights.
00:19:21.363 --> 00:19:23.203
Genie Joseph: Yeah, really.
00:19:23.203 --> 00:19:29.463
Genie Joseph: Yeah, it's a beautiful concept in a way to take responsibility for the things that happen.
00:19:29.463 --> 00:19:38.123
Genie Joseph: I mean, I know that we're not responsible for everything in life, but that perspective gives you so much power because if you say, well, the horse did it to me, then you have no power.
00:19:38.123 --> 00:19:43.323
Genie Joseph: But if you say, well, I did something or I didn't do something, and this happened, then you have the power to change it.
00:19:43.323 --> 00:19:49.283
Genie Joseph: So it's really a beautiful piece of wisdom that your father gave you.
00:19:49.283 --> 00:19:51.123
Kate Hawkes: April, 67 years.
00:19:51.123 --> 00:19:52.403
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:19:52.403 --> 00:19:55.203
Genie Joseph: Well, so tell us a story about, I know you're making a film.
00:19:55.203 --> 00:19:57.363
Genie Joseph: What's the name of your film?
00:19:57.363 --> 00:20:00.843
Kate Hawkes: The film is called Quarantine Tales, T-A-L-E-S.
00:20:03.263 --> 00:20:04.983
Kate Hawkes: It will be out soon.
00:20:04.983 --> 00:20:07.623
Kate Hawkes: We do have a site you can go and look at it.
00:20:08.683 --> 00:20:20.223
Kate Hawkes: So what it is, I just wanted to explore how valuable a relationship with a living being is apart from a human being.
00:20:20.223 --> 00:20:25.843
Kate Hawkes: So the place of dogs, cats, horses in our lives, what does it do for us?
00:20:25.843 --> 00:20:28.603
Kate Hawkes: And my mirror is horses.
00:20:28.603 --> 00:20:30.883
Kate Hawkes: So it started out, it's going to be very, very tiny.
00:20:30.883 --> 00:20:34.063
Kate Hawkes: It's turned into a full 13-minute short.
00:20:34.063 --> 00:20:38.763
Kate Hawkes: And so I realized I knew incredible people with horse stories.
00:20:38.763 --> 00:20:40.523
Kate Hawkes: So they're kind of in my film.
00:20:40.523 --> 00:20:43.923
Kate Hawkes: And one of the most extraordinary is Diana.
00:20:43.923 --> 00:20:46.543
Kate Hawkes: She's 90 years old.
00:20:46.543 --> 00:20:49.123
Kate Hawkes: Diana grew up in Ojai, California.
00:20:49.123 --> 00:20:53.943
Kate Hawkes: Her father worked training horses in the movie, you know, over a hundred years ago.
00:20:55.003 --> 00:20:58.003
Kate Hawkes: And then at the age of 45, horses kind of went out of her life.
00:20:58.003 --> 00:20:59.123
Kate Hawkes: She'd had them all her life.
00:20:59.123 --> 00:21:02.343
Kate Hawkes: And she lives here in Sedona now.
00:21:02.423 --> 00:21:08.223
Kate Hawkes: And I was, I met her, and she said, I'd love to come and see her horse again.
00:21:08.223 --> 00:21:12.863
Kate Hawkes: So we actually have, in my little film, the moment that she reconnects with a horse.
00:21:12.863 --> 00:21:17.103
Kate Hawkes: After 45 years, she'd not been near a horse.
00:21:17.103 --> 00:21:18.243
Kate Hawkes: 90 years old.
00:21:18.243 --> 00:21:35.423
Kate Hawkes: That woman, there was some, she got out of the car, she skipped over the mud puddle into the, like we all do, and watching her with Mariah, my old gray mare, everything was like muscle memory.
00:21:35.423 --> 00:21:36.443
Kate Hawkes: Everything was there.
00:21:36.443 --> 00:21:47.883
Kate Hawkes: Every way she talked to the horse, right to leading the horse around, you know how sometimes you get on the wrong side of the horse and the ropes behind you, and just automatically switching hands without even thinking.
00:21:47.883 --> 00:21:50.563
Kate Hawkes: They just said, I want to get on.
00:21:50.603 --> 00:21:52.863
Kate Hawkes: But her sons were there and they went, okay.
00:21:52.863 --> 00:21:54.563
Kate Hawkes: We got her on that horse.
00:21:54.563 --> 00:22:02.903
Kate Hawkes: That 90-year-old lady sat up, wiggled her way into the right place on the horse, and then sat and chatted, just talked.
00:22:02.903 --> 00:22:09.663
Kate Hawkes: And her wisdom about what animals mean, even if it's just watching the birds in your backyard.
00:22:09.943 --> 00:22:11.743
Genie Joseph: Yes.
00:22:11.823 --> 00:22:14.143
Kate Hawkes: And so she's in the film.
00:22:14.143 --> 00:22:17.783
Kate Hawkes: And then the massage therapist, she took Bella.
00:22:17.783 --> 00:22:23.463
Kate Hawkes: She talks a lot about the meditation around horses, helps her.
00:22:23.463 --> 00:22:32.303
Kate Hawkes: And then I have a lady who brought her three-month-old baby to meet his first horse, because she wants him to have that connection.
00:22:32.303 --> 00:22:40.523
Kate Hawkes: And then my story is called Snack Shots, and I have photos of me with horses for the last 60 years, and a poem that I wrote to go with it.
00:22:41.063 --> 00:22:41.423
Kate Hawkes: Wow.
00:22:41.423 --> 00:22:47.023
Genie Joseph: Well, I know we're going to read that poem in a moment, but I'm just curious, how did the horse respond to a three-month-old baby?
00:22:47.023 --> 00:22:47.723
Genie Joseph: What's up?
00:22:47.723 --> 00:22:51.463
Genie Joseph: The horse have awareness that this is a baby or?
00:22:51.463 --> 00:22:57.203
Kate Hawkes: Fire, who's my magic horse, who just can read people like, Mariah just stood there, totally calm and still.
00:22:57.203 --> 00:22:59.483
Kate Hawkes: We held the baby up.
00:22:59.483 --> 00:23:03.903
Kate Hawkes: She'd sniffed it, but mostly what she knew to do was just be still and be present.
00:23:04.483 --> 00:23:05.903
Kate Hawkes: She didn't have to do anything.
00:23:06.083 --> 00:23:13.623
Kate Hawkes: She held this baby up, with this beautiful mom, grinning her head off, and Anne was just staring.
00:23:16.063 --> 00:23:17.103
Genie Joseph: That's so great.
00:23:17.103 --> 00:23:17.963
Genie Joseph: That's so great.
00:23:17.963 --> 00:23:18.643
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:23:18.643 --> 00:23:24.363
Genie Joseph: Well, yeah, I'm sure the horse was experiencing the baby at a very deep level and knew to be calm and still.
00:23:24.963 --> 00:23:26.863
Genie Joseph: And that's beautiful.
00:23:26.863 --> 00:23:28.223
Genie Joseph: That's beautiful.
00:23:30.043 --> 00:23:31.523
Kate Hawkes: We have pretty much finished it.
00:23:31.523 --> 00:23:33.583
Kate Hawkes: We had a complete original score done for it.
00:23:33.623 --> 00:23:36.903
Kate Hawkes: We're doing our last lot of editing, and it is available.
00:23:36.903 --> 00:23:44.463
Kate Hawkes: If people go to the crowd funder Seed and Spark horse tails, you can look up a bunch of stuff about it or on my website.
00:23:45.683 --> 00:23:46.263
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:23:46.263 --> 00:23:49.343
Genie Joseph: Well, let's just give folks your website so they'll have it.
00:23:49.343 --> 00:23:51.423
Kate Hawkes: My website is wellnesswithkate.com.
00:23:57.943 --> 00:24:02.063
Kate Hawkes: And it has links to the various things I do, and I will feed you.
00:24:02.063 --> 00:24:02.783
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:24:02.783 --> 00:24:04.843
Genie Joseph: And what brought you to Sedona, Arizona?
00:24:04.843 --> 00:24:05.923
Genie Joseph: A beautiful place in the world.
00:24:05.923 --> 00:24:07.263
Genie Joseph: What brought you there?
00:24:07.263 --> 00:24:15.403
Kate Hawkes: I've been living in Oregon for about 20 years, which is also beautiful, but it's cold, wet, and green with that.
00:24:15.403 --> 00:24:18.983
Kate Hawkes: So I came to where it was hot, dry, and red.
00:24:18.983 --> 00:24:21.303
Genie Joseph: And how many oysters did you bring with you?
00:24:21.303 --> 00:24:22.443
Kate Hawkes: I didn't bring any with me.
00:24:22.823 --> 00:24:25.783
Kate Hawkes: My life has, what's the other thing?
00:24:25.783 --> 00:24:32.023
Kate Hawkes: I've had to love and hold and care for horses and then know when and how to let them go.
00:24:32.023 --> 00:24:35.443
Kate Hawkes: Just horses always come back in my life.
00:24:35.443 --> 00:24:39.963
Kate Hawkes: When I left Australia, I left what horses I had.
00:24:39.963 --> 00:24:43.983
Kate Hawkes: And then as soon as I got to Oregon, they just started coming into my life.
00:24:43.983 --> 00:24:51.263
Kate Hawkes: And then when I left there, there was a year when I didn't have a horse, and then gradually horses started coming back into my life.
00:24:52.263 --> 00:24:54.483
Kate Hawkes: And I've whittled them down to one.
00:24:54.483 --> 00:24:55.983
Kate Hawkes: Okay.
00:24:55.983 --> 00:24:58.923
Genie Joseph: One that you can give all your love to.
00:24:58.923 --> 00:25:07.063
Genie Joseph: And I think you mentioned earlier that it's really important to know what your capacity is, you know, depending upon your life or how much help you have, or if you have a partner or whatever.
00:25:07.063 --> 00:25:11.523
Genie Joseph: But it's really important not to overhorse yourself.
00:25:11.523 --> 00:25:17.943
Genie Joseph: I know people who have too many horses, and none of the horses get the kind of love that I think they deserve, you know?
00:25:18.543 --> 00:25:22.063
Genie Joseph: So that's really important to have that self-awareness.
00:25:23.083 --> 00:25:28.223
Kate Hawkes: And I think also, what is, like we were saying, what's the best person for this horse?
00:25:28.223 --> 00:25:33.303
Kate Hawkes: Danny, who is in the movie, Danny was the best person for Bella.
00:25:33.303 --> 00:25:42.003
Kate Hawkes: Even the very little about horses, and she did come and work with me for a couple of months before she took her, couldn't have found a better person for Bella.
00:25:42.003 --> 00:25:44.003
Kate Hawkes: Like that was the right person.
00:25:44.083 --> 00:25:46.003
Genie Joseph: Yes, yes, I've seen that.
00:25:46.003 --> 00:25:51.923
Genie Joseph: Sometimes an animal and a person, it's just not right, and everybody tries to make it work.
00:25:51.923 --> 00:25:57.743
Genie Joseph: But sometimes you just have to say, this isn't the best fit, this isn't what the person or the horse or the animal needs.
00:25:57.743 --> 00:25:59.983
Genie Joseph: And it takes a lot of bravery.
00:25:59.983 --> 00:26:07.443
Genie Joseph: You have to be really, really clear to let an animal go and trust that there is a better person.
00:26:07.443 --> 00:26:08.743
Genie Joseph: Hopefully you can find that better person.
00:26:08.743 --> 00:26:15.883
Genie Joseph: But sometimes I just went through that with someone, a donkey that I love very much, and he was not thriving with her.
00:26:15.883 --> 00:26:25.723
Genie Joseph: She had too many horses that she had, they were getting kind of in first place, and the donkey was in last place, and she loved him, but it just, the animals know, and he started escaping.
00:26:26.823 --> 00:26:33.523
Genie Joseph: And he became a little Houdini, and she'd fix the fence and he'd get through again, and she'd fix it and get through again.
00:26:33.523 --> 00:26:41.943
Genie Joseph: And so finally, she had to give him to somebody who has a donkey rescue and they have 30 donkeys, and hopefully he's going to be thriving with donkey dumb.
00:26:42.303 --> 00:26:46.743
Genie Joseph: Even though he got along great with horses and they were hurt, it still was not ideal.
00:26:46.743 --> 00:26:52.103
Genie Joseph: And it was a very painful lesson for me, more for me because I totally loved this donkey.
00:26:52.103 --> 00:26:56.983
Genie Joseph: But I had to recognize that he has, he knows that there's something better for him.
00:26:56.983 --> 00:27:00.643
Genie Joseph: And he behaved in a way that absolutely got our attention.
00:27:00.643 --> 00:27:05.783
Genie Joseph: We couldn't ignore the fact that he was getting onto other people's property and eating their fruit trees.
00:27:05.783 --> 00:27:08.763
Genie Joseph: And this was not going to work.
00:27:08.763 --> 00:27:10.083
Genie Joseph: They were not going to let that happen.
00:27:10.903 --> 00:27:23.683
Kate Hawkes: That last song, again, I was so lucky the way I was raised on a ranch with all sorts of horses, all kinds of horses all the time, and a father who was very practical and a very good horseman.
00:27:23.683 --> 00:27:28.463
Kate Hawkes: But I remember I was 10, and I wanted a black horseman, a black beauty.
00:27:28.463 --> 00:27:30.123
Kate Hawkes: I wanted a black horse.
00:27:30.123 --> 00:27:31.643
Kate Hawkes: Never mind we had umpteen horses.
00:27:31.643 --> 00:27:37.443
Kate Hawkes: My father found me a black horse, and a black horse is hard to find, like a real black horse.
00:27:38.763 --> 00:27:39.383
Kate Hawkes: She was beautiful.
00:27:39.903 --> 00:27:45.023
Kate Hawkes: Within two months, we came very clear, I was not ready for that horse.
00:27:45.023 --> 00:27:47.783
Kate Hawkes: Like she was too much horse for me.
00:27:47.783 --> 00:27:48.423
Kate Hawkes: Yeah.
00:27:48.423 --> 00:27:51.183
Kate Hawkes: Oh my God, I came off her so many times.
00:27:51.183 --> 00:27:51.783
Kate Hawkes: So many times.
00:27:51.783 --> 00:27:58.183
Kate Hawkes: And finally my father was, and the horse then started getting more and more difficult because I didn't know what I was doing.
00:27:58.183 --> 00:28:00.623
Kate Hawkes: I was getting frustrated, but I was really stubborn.
00:28:00.623 --> 00:28:04.383
Kate Hawkes: Finally my father just said, you know what, you're not ready for this horse.
00:28:04.783 --> 00:28:06.463
Kate Hawkes: Say the horse is bad.
00:28:06.463 --> 00:28:08.863
Kate Hawkes: Right, right.
00:28:08.863 --> 00:28:12.983
Kate Hawkes: We're going to find another home and we'll get you another horse.
00:28:12.983 --> 00:28:14.883
Kate Hawkes: We'll use one of the many we have.
00:28:14.883 --> 00:28:22.223
Kate Hawkes: But again, I remember just being, but I failed and dad goes, no, this horse is too much for you right now.
00:28:22.223 --> 00:28:27.623
Kate Hawkes: And it's a good lesson, like it wasn't my fault, it wasn't the horse's fault.
00:28:28.023 --> 00:28:31.263
Kate Hawkes: And he made that choice before anybody got hurt.
00:28:31.883 --> 00:28:33.343
Kate Hawkes: It's my pride.
00:28:33.343 --> 00:28:34.763
Genie Joseph: Yeah, right.
00:28:34.763 --> 00:28:36.763
Kate Hawkes: I'll also remember that too.
00:28:36.763 --> 00:28:43.323
Kate Hawkes: Just know when you're able to manage and handle something, and it's the same in real life.
00:28:43.323 --> 00:28:48.603
Kate Hawkes: Like again, to me, all these horse lessons apply to our life.
00:28:48.603 --> 00:28:52.783
Genie Joseph: Yes, beautiful metaphors.
00:28:52.783 --> 00:28:57.063
Genie Joseph: Sometimes we couldn't hear it in words, but we can hear it in horse.
00:28:57.063 --> 00:28:57.663
Genie Joseph: Do you know what I mean?
00:28:58.223 --> 00:29:03.983
Genie Joseph: We can recognize, okay, so like this donkey that was escaping, this donkey was saying, there's a better place for me.
00:29:03.983 --> 00:29:05.663
Genie Joseph: This isn't right.
00:29:05.663 --> 00:29:12.103
Genie Joseph: Even though I wanted to keep him because we do a lot of therapy work with him, he was brilliant with people.
00:29:13.243 --> 00:29:16.763
Genie Joseph: It wasn't right for him in that barn, and he needed to go another place.
00:29:18.583 --> 00:29:22.323
Genie Joseph: So, yeah, it wasn't easy.
00:29:22.323 --> 00:29:30.663
Genie Joseph: I had to really work with myself and get past my own personal desires, my own personal sadness, to see what it was that he needed.
00:29:30.663 --> 00:29:33.243
Genie Joseph: And yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:33.243 --> 00:29:43.683
Genie Joseph: It's really something, the way that animals can teach us, without words, but just through behavior, energy, love, they can show us something that we're not seeing, that we need to see.
00:29:43.683 --> 00:29:48.243
Genie Joseph: So, yeah, beautiful.
00:29:48.243 --> 00:29:51.423
Genie Joseph: Well, before we leave, is there any last thing you want to leave our audience with?
00:29:51.423 --> 00:29:54.383
Genie Joseph: A bit of wisdom from Kate Hawkes.
00:29:54.383 --> 00:29:55.683
Kate Hawkes: Let's hear the poem or do we end?
00:29:55.683 --> 00:29:56.623
Genie Joseph: Oh, yes, let's go.
00:29:56.623 --> 00:29:57.143
Genie Joseph: Let's hear the poem.
00:29:57.143 --> 00:29:57.963
Genie Joseph: I forgot the poem.
00:29:57.963 --> 00:30:00.123
Genie Joseph: Let's hear the poem.
00:30:00.123 --> 00:30:06.103
Kate Hawkes: So, in the film, I do do my story as well, and I do it through a series of photographs.
00:30:06.103 --> 00:30:10.443
Kate Hawkes: I went and dug out, you know, the old-fashioned black and white photos.
00:30:10.443 --> 00:30:17.483
Kate Hawkes: There's a series of those, and while those are showing on the screen, my voice over does this call.
00:30:17.483 --> 00:30:20.823
Kate Hawkes: It's called The Shadow That Rides Beside Me.
00:30:20.823 --> 00:30:29.423
Kate Hawkes: A shadow rides beside my life, the equine connection, forged as an Australian child with every hello and goodbye.
00:30:29.423 --> 00:30:39.043
Kate Hawkes: Photos hold stories of us all, some so strong I smell them, some whispering memories that pound in my heart and fall.
00:30:39.043 --> 00:30:46.703
Kate Hawkes: Horses locate me in time, space, focusing history, hopes weaving together then to now.
00:30:46.703 --> 00:30:49.963
Kate Hawkes: Horses, people, and place.
00:30:49.963 --> 00:30:58.783
Kate Hawkes: In the other hemisphere, older like a homing device, horses guide, comfort and challenge, Oregon to Arizona.
00:30:58.783 --> 00:31:03.903
Kate Hawkes: A horse might look like one from before, but every love is unique.
00:31:03.903 --> 00:31:08.423
Kate Hawkes: The things we do might echo the past, but each brings a gift of more.
00:31:09.623 --> 00:31:14.663
Kate Hawkes: My shadow rides on the edge of sight, carried by shortness of foot.
00:31:14.663 --> 00:31:20.743
Kate Hawkes: When and how the journey is made, horse dreams lead me to the light.
00:31:20.743 --> 00:31:24.123
Genie Joseph: Beautiful, beautiful, lovely, lovely, lovely.
00:31:24.123 --> 00:31:35.563
Genie Joseph: Well, thank you for the lovely work that you're doing with animals and with people and helping them find their stories through interacting with horses and discovering a side of themselves that maybe they've forgotten.
00:31:35.563 --> 00:31:36.403
Kate Hawkes: Thank you very much.
00:31:36.403 --> 00:31:36.983
Kate Hawkes: Thank you, Jeannie.
00:31:37.263 --> 00:31:40.523
Kate Hawkes: And for all the wonderful work you've done.
00:31:40.523 --> 00:31:41.763
Genie Joseph: Thank you.
00:31:41.763 --> 00:31:42.643
Genie Joseph: All right.
00:31:42.643 --> 00:31:46.223
Genie Joseph: Well, we'll say aloha for now and to be continued.
00:31:46.223 --> 00:31:50.343
Genie Joseph: Thank you for listening to the Human-Animal Connection podcast.
00:31:50.343 --> 00:31:53.643
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