Mobility Troubles Part 1
Join hosts Nessie and Echo. Echo is a vet tech with 18 years of experience. This episode is part one of a two part series that will discuss the most common mobility issues seen in pets and the prevalence of pain in senior animals. We will also share personal experiences, stories and of course react to funny reviews of arthritis products found online. The podcast concludes with an AI-generated song based on the topics discussed. Email us at letstalk@petliferadio.com, find us on social media facebook.com/PodcastLetsTalkAboutPets Instagram Talk_Pets_With_Us.
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Transcript:
Hey, pals. Welcome to Let's Talk About Pets. I'm your host, Nessie. And though we are going to be saying goodbye to Cat, it's just we have differences of artistic styles. But let me introduce you to our new co-host. This is echo. Hello. Hi, echo. Welcome to let's talk about Pets. Thank you. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? So my name is Echo. I've been in the field for 18 years. Started off with kind of boarding and kennel work. I've done reception and sales and doggie daycare, and I was management for some time. I'm a certified dog trainer. I'm a licensed pet groomer, and now I'm a vet tech. So very large array of things to do. Yeah. So you enjoy being a vet tech then? Yeah, it's definitely been my favorite. I kind of it was just getting bored every two years or so. I just kind of felt like I, I learned as much as I was going to learn, and I wanted something more and something new, you know, constantly onwards and upwards. And that landed me back at medicine. I just I don't get bored with medicine. It's hard to there's so much going on, so much to learn for sure. So today's episode is going to be a huge one. I guess it's it's going to be mobility issues and arthritis. This is going to be our first ever two parter here, which is exciting and glad. Good to be here for that. Yeah, actually have a pickup line for you. Oh okay. Just get you get you warmed up if you want. A good pickup line will warm me right up. Um, I can't promise it's good. Yeah. Ah, don't get your hopes up. Okay? All right, all right. I am gonna try. Yeah. So I really like to chase my tail. But I'd much rather chase yours. Ha ha ha ha. This is also from the perspective of dogs. Hi. Uh, that could be a perspective of a human. And I'd still be like, oh, I don't chase my own tail. Huh? That would get weird. That would get weird. I like that one very much. That was a good one. What? Oh, man. What is it? Do you have a patient that is like, your most memorable? Like with a mobility issue? Anything that sticks out is as something that that is your favorite patient or something that happened that was unique to this instance. I wouldn't say I have a favorite because mobility issues tend to be pretty life altering. Um, that was my shoe that made that sound. I'm gonna just kick these off. Also, if you hear sniffing or the occasional groan, my small dog is in here. Small dogs need groans to you. He gave away a favorite surgery with Doctor Peterson. We do a lot of MPPs, the modified Marquette procedure in place of the PLO as far for the CCL repair. Those are my favorite to assist him. Just because he's reconstructing the anatomy of the knee is that that is probably one of my favorites to watch, just because there's that's so much more involved. I have a patient. I remember this so well. I'm gonna call her Tracy. Mr. Tracy, she was very elderly. She was like a 15 year old chow. And I was grooming at the time out of a, um, vet's office, and she. She didn't have any stability on her back legs like she couldn't stand. And so they wanted, like, one, one last groom to make her comfortable for, you know, however long she had left. I groomed her up, and she was real fluffy. We got her hair all blown out. Beautiful. So I was taking her back to the big dog kennels and had her on the ground, and I was holding up her back legs and she was kind of stumbling along on her front, kind of like wheelbarrow style almost. There was a small step down. It was a real short step, even with people like we knew it was there and we would still trip on it because it was a lot smaller than expected. And she missed it and she wobbled and I fell so that she didn't fall. I fell flat on my my bottom. I was like, ah, gosh, that really hurt. Get her in the kennel. Everything's fine with her. But days later it was still hurting real, real bad. Um, like sleeping with ice packs on my butt. It felt like my tailbone was trying to, like, exit out my skin real bad. So I went to the doctor, took X-rays, and he showed me on this big TV, and he pointed out right at the bottom of my spine, there were three little bone chips. Looked like they were floating around in a big ol cloud. Oh, wow. I said, what is that? And he said, well, those are fragments of your tailbone. You broke your tailbone like right on the fuse points. Oh, gosh. And so there's no mending that which I learned just then. It doesn't heal like a regular bone that doesn't have fuse points. Heals, I guess so, he said. So we got to get the inflammation under control because that's what's hurting. They're not going to refuse. The pieces of tailbone are just going to be where they are. I said, well, can't you take him out surgically? And he goes, oh no, no, no. I said, well how you fix it then? And he goes, well, childbirth, I'll fix it. I was like, sir, why, sure, I don't, I don't have children. I don't have any immediate plans to have children. Can I just get surgery to take the bones out? And he was like, no, you don't need it. So that was back in 2017. As far as I understand. I just have my three broken pieces of tailbone just kind of there. How does childbirth fix it? I, I guess it like pushes it all into the right place. I don't know, I didn't ask a lot of questions about that. Yeah, yeah, I don't I'm that's a terrible suggestion, sir. I'm gonna need you to give me a backup plan. Yeah, I guess the backup plan is do nothing, but. Oh, well, that was my most memorable mobility issue. Patient because dealing with her ended up with me having a perpetually broken tailbone. Wild. I'm real sorry that happened. Mhm. Um, I have not had the experience of any broken bones ever, ever so far. Yeah. Oh, wow. You are lucky. Even like a toe or anything. Even a toe. So getting into mobility issues, what would you say are like the most common ones are most common that we see? I can answer this very easily. The ACL tear arthritis. And Lux aiding Putellas. Okay, I was going to say all of those and IVD and saddle thrombus is one that stays with me. I don't see those other ones commonly. Yeah, I don't see those. I think I think most common that I remember from my time in general practice because I'm in specialty right now, but I think CL tears and just general arthritis were the big ones. Yeah. I have a fact for you. Okay. According to. Aha. Aha. Aha. Aha. Go ahead and tell us the American Animal Hospital Association. We are actually becoming Aha certified. Nice. We have our inspection on the 24th. That's hard. That's very very detailed. Okay. Well good luck I hope I hope it works out really well. According to. Aha, nearly 15% of dogs and 20% of cats are over the age of 11. That's a lot of senior animals. There's a lot of, you know, in my experience with pet owners, pain that is caused by age related changes in pets is commonly believed to be just normal, like pain is not normal, you know, even if it is from changes that are due to a pet's aging, that there are things that are available to kind of help keep our pets as pain free as possible and able to maintain a good quality of life. There are some things that I've come to, uh, accept as normal pain for me. Like, yeah, this little extra bone in my foot. That's right. I forgot about that. And then my broken tailbone. The carpal tunnel in my wrist, which I know there's ways out there to fix that. But yeah, the recovery time and the, uh, I have a recurring back injury started from grooming when I had a £98 doodle on my table, and, and he decided to straight jump and off the table. I had mine connected at the neck and at the flank, but he broke it. He broke my grooming arms and he was about to, like, choke himself. And I didn't want him to suffocate. So I grabbed him in mid-air and just held him up until my assistant could put her dog that was in the tub and a kennel to come and unhook him, and it just it destroyed my back. I couldn't groom after that. Let's do a review. Okay. This is a review for Luma Soothe. It is a two light therapy for dogs and pets, LED light therapy for pain relief, muscle and joint pain to reduce inflammation, heal wounds, and clear skin problems with two therapy modes. It's very pretty. Is that like cold laser? Not really sure. Let's see how it works. Okay. Yeah. Iggy is the the person who left this review. Oh, it's a name okay. Yep, I did you. Why? Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah it is one star verified purchase called confusing review, but nope. Confusing products. I'm about to give you a confusing review. The product confused me, but also this review might do okay. I honestly do not know how to use this product. How do I know if I'm doing anything with it? I do not understand the instructions. I have a very thick coated Siberian Husky. Well, I, I mean, I haven't read the instructions, of course, but I, I just find the, the title of the product very confusing. Is it led therapy? Yeah. That heals wounds and skin problems and reduces inflammation. We have separate products to do these things. Right? Right. We have our laser that we use like to for arthritis pain in those kind of things. Right. Because of inflammation. That's a cold laser therapy instrument. And then we have our fovea. Fovea. Yes. So my practice also has this light system called fovea. And it uses a bunch of different wavelengths of UV light to heal lomas and wounds and help surgical sites heal anything. That's not like a potentially cancerous site. Like you wouldn't use it on a mast cell tumor area or something like that, right? Right. But it uses a chloroform gel or for chromium. Oh my God, I'm just messing this all kinds of well. A chrome A4 gel from A4. Chrome A4 gel. Not chloroform. Not. Not chloroform. You shine this light on for like five minutes or whatever and it's healing these wounds. So these are two separate types of lighting and laser type things that I've seen in the clinic. I've not seen it all in one like this. And it is quite pretty. I'd be interested in what the directions say. Yeah. Me too. The fact that he he's like, I don't even know if it's doing anything. So it's important to know that he had a husky, but he doesn't know how to use the product anyway. So one star is he. Is he saying that because he thinks the like, the double coat or the undercoat is getting in the way? Possibly. Um, I think he's getting in his own way. So, yeah, they're starting with the weird laser light. It's not a laser, though. It's just a weird light. She's a weird, colorful light. Sounds like snake oil. Honestly, just. I would be more inclined to believe you. Yeah, let's start with arthritis. So I have some of that. Do you really? It's from my weird bone in my foot, repeatedly walking on the foot. Weird. You know. Oh, yeah. That would that would do it. The Canine Arthritis Resources and Education Organization defines arthritis as just inflammation of a joint, with secondary changes that lead to pain and reduced joint movement, I think, and I know that there's tons of different types of arthritis, and we're just focusing on arthritis in general. It is around joints specifically. So in a healthy joint the the end of the bones are covered in this smooth cartilage. It's kind of slippery and allows the bones to move without friction. And then there's synovial fluid, which is a kind of a sticky substance that fills the space between the joints that provides lubrication. And then there's a joint capsule that's a just a fibrous connective tissue that it kind of encloses synovial joints. Right. So that's a healthy joint. In an arthritic joint the cartilage gets thinner and it wears down, which makes more friction to the point where bone can rub against bone. And the synovial fluid can get thinner as well. That provides less lubrication to the joint, causing inflammation to the synovial membrane. And the joint capsule itself just kind of thickens. And these osteocytes form osteocytes are like bone spurs. They're just extra growths of bone tissue that kind of form when there's damage from arthritis. So that's kind of what arthritis is, what it looks like in a joint. The care organization say that that just general arthritis is really one of the most common causes of chronic pain for pets. I have actually a small fun fact too. Oh, I like fun facts. Did you know that approximately 90% of. All cats over ten years old have some form of arthritis. 90%. That's really high. Holy cow. Did not. Yeah. That the, um. Veterinary partners. I love veterinary partners. Yes. They have, um, a really great article on arthritis and pain management and stuff in cats and that's their numbers. That is fantastic. If you or, you know, pet owner and listening to this episode and you just want to learn more about your pet, I know it can be difficult to distinguish sometimes which websites have accurate information and which websites will kind of offer you some dangerous advice, but one of the best resources out there for you is definitely going to be veterinary partner. And we aren't sponsored by them or anything, but that website has. We should be like, I love Veterinary partner better. They have articles that are written by board certified specialists specifically for pet owners. So I mean, if you're going to get on Google, definitely get on veterinary partner. Check there first. Yeah, definitely arthritis can develop in really any joint anywhere in the body and it's not curable. Bu you know, but the earlier it is recognized the more successful long term management is going to be. I do have a fun fact, 40% of dogs under the age of four years old have evidence of arthritis on their X-rays already. Mhm. But only about half of them show any signs of pain that young because most dogs aren't diagnosed with arthritis until they're like 8 to 10 years old. At that point, it's actually more challenging to try and control those symptoms. Ah well. On that note, I can offer you up a review. A review is French for review. Oh, how do you say it? Uh, you sound more like you have a thing you're trying to get rid of. This is on that same weird light laser thing, huh? And it's another one star review. Oh, girl, oh, girl. Verify. You go. Oh, girl. And it's called returning. Oh, okay. Yeah. Unfortunately, this item did not work at all for my dog. It also is time consuming 15 minute sessions with a bright blinking green light. My dog had zero reaction to this thing. She didn't love it or just sit there patiently each time. A few reviewers dogs got theirs too. Made me sad. I really wanted to like this. The return process is very simple, so I do appreciate that I purchased the other handheld flashlight looking red light therapy unit instead. Slightly pricier, only takes 1 to 3 minutes per session. Also did not work and it was way more complicated to return. So I appreciate this seller and the process more. I'm bummed that it didn't work on my little old lady dog. What else is a bummer? What this is? It's just light. Yeah. A green light. And then. So she purchased the red light, which still didn't work, but it was super hard to turn around. I like how she mentioned that in here. Like we were. We would know what the red handle. Yeah. Um, I have no idea. I have no clue. I could have looked into her reviews and found one for the red light also. Yeah, it was like, hey, the green light was easy to return, but also didn't work. Or maybe she's playing that game. Red light, green light. Oh, now that is something that you would have to teach your pets, although I don't think you would want them still for that. Like, if you're like green light and they're sitting still, you're like, no wrong, right? Well, it didn't matter because this one didn't sit still. Unlike the other reviews she read, that dog stood still and so she doesn't understand how that worked. Okay. We have to send her back to, like, regular puppy training for the stay. That's the stay cue. That's the story. Um, in case you were wondering which one fits that scenario. It's like, depending on what you're what you're trying to put your green light on or your red light, not. Yeah. Who's who's to say? Yeah. Um, you can start with sit, but always end the stay. Don't talk about cats. Let's talk about cats, baby. Meow meow meow meow. Yeah. That's our. That's our new theme song. Oh, excellent. Do you know what the term owner ectomy means? Please tell us. Ectomy is is the term for the surgical removal of the toenail, which in cats is the first digit of the toe or the o a d claw? I'd claw. I saw that word in parentheses next to d claw before and it was so long I just skim over it. I have never had to say that term before, so I did google it just to make sure I'm pronouncing it correctly. The computer said, oh no, check to me. So I don't think, oh my, I don't think a check today is correct. We never use that term. There is an article on the effects of owner ectomy on and to brachial mythology, which is for limb like musculature and like structure, uh, in both domestic and exotic cats. I read a lot for for this episode. For the two parter, I probably put about 15 hours into researching and reading up and stuff. Um, but it's a fascinating read in the part of the article focusing on declining as a surgery, it said that the anatomical changes of decline actually leads to a number of mobility issues, including arthritis and poor pad distribution, abnormal stands and gait. And if there was some of the phalanx bone fragments, or if there was some bone regrowth, it can severely impact the cat's ability to move comfortably. Tell me what Doctor Peterson said. I'm really curious because I like, you know, the doctors I work with don't Darklaw. So he does not. Darklaw. That is long been discontinued with him. But he did in in the beginning years. Yeah. The before time. The before times. But he's never seen it cause significant mobility problems unless the decline was done incorrectly. That's the time that he's seen the most issues. Sure. Um, it's not seen that much anymore in practice. Do any of your doctors do? Darklaw? Okay. It's long since been forgotten. I don't even know. I think there might even only be two vet clinics in this area that might even do it. Oh, wow. The last clinic that I worked for before I went into specialty, um, they did decline. Like it. Decline can severely impact the cat's ability to be comfortable. And sometimes if there are bone fragments left or some bone regrowth, it could cause the cats to walk on those fragments, which is painful. And sometimes it makes them avoid walking on their toes altogether, or even choose to walk on their carpus and tarsus, which is akin to like the wrist and the ankle joints in people, which is not where cats are supposed to be walking. I've sat through a few D-class in my time 20 years ago, so I've been involved and I've seen them done. And he goes in with the blade, and you pretty much cut that first muscle just right off. Mhm. And then glue, glue it shut. That's. Yeah. That's the, that's the procedure I guess that the doctor that I used to work with, he would do too. And I was reading some of these articles where there were a lot of procedures where vets would just use those guillotine style nail clippers. Right. Oh it made me green like I, I had to, like, get out of that article. There are a lot of places that don't do it anymore in the US. And I think I'm not 100% on this, but I think it might be illegal in Europe. Yeah, they tend to be a step or two ahead of us. Yeah. Well, I read an article written by a professor David Bennett, and I just I just wanna take a minute to tell you about all the letters after this man's name. This has nothing to do with everyone in the alphabet. Arthritis. But. Holy smokes. Yeah. So it's BSc honors, B vet med honors, PhD, now FDA, MSN, CVS. Oh. Does he work for CVS? No. Bless you. Just kidding. I'm just kidding. The breakdown is he's got a Bachelor of Science with honours, a Bachelor of veterinary medicine with honours. He is a doctor of Philosophy, which, like compared to a doctorate, a PhD is is a research degree. So I just learned that today he's got a diploma in small animal orthopaedics. He's a fellow of Higher Education Academy and he's a member of Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons. Royal. Yeah he's from the UK okay. He's a he's a professor at the Institute of Comparative Medicine in companion animal science in the University of Glasgow. But I highlight all of that to say that, like what this man is about to say in this article about cats and arthritis, I'm just going to believe him. Okay. No, he's got all the credentials. He has the letters behind him. So there's a great ton of education and research and experience that went into this paper specifically is talking about osteoarthritis. But osteoarthritis is specifically a disease that affects the cartilage in the joint. The main symptom that older cats with osteoarthritis have, surprisingly, is not lameness, but it's rather the reduced activity and reduced ability to jump. I believe that. I was worried about my 17 year old cat possibly having arthritis issues, but she doesn't hesitate to hop the baby gate and her food is on top of the washing machine, and she does not hesitate to hop up there. And maybe she's not as active as she used to be, but she still gets zoomies at night, where she's through the living room, under the couch, over the couch. She does like this thing where she. Yes, on the climb across the side. It's like something out of nothing but something out of The Exorcist. Yeah. Coming at you. It's insane. Terrifying. Hate it in her eyes are, like, real big while she does it. Like she might be dilated. Ah, yes, it has a lot of fun. So as long as she's happy and screams like a maniac and then tries to open every door that's closed, and then she's done for the night and goes to bed. But yeah, she got her routine. That's amazing. One of the articles that I was reading for this did say that sometimes the reduced activity can be from pain, but you're going to see that in like they aren't as active at night and they don't jump as high anymore. Their their nighttime routine is totally disturbed and they just want to sleep because they're uncomfortable. So. That's really interesting. That has none of those symptoms. She's a maniac. She's a maniac. Part of that is probably because she's such a small cat. Well, yeah. So when Doctor Bennet, I should call him Professor Bennett. So I guess I'll just call him Professor Bennett. I'll say he also says that all of these symptoms, they're often considered effects of old age, but they are actually due to chronic pain. You and I both know from experience that cats are amazing and resilient animals, and they're exceptionally stoic. So frequently, a cat can have a significant problem, and families will have no idea until it's quite advanced. Yeah. In 2006, Professor Bennett and a colleague of his did a study on feline osteoarthritis and found that the median age for osteoarthritis in cats is 11 years old. But I don't think of cats as being old until they're in their teens, like 14, 15. That's just me, you know? So I always thought of cats because they have longer lifespans than many dogs do. I always thought of cats being middle aged until they're about like 1314, and then they start getting into old age. We always start them on their senior bloodwork around then. Yeah, yeah. In this study, they found that the the two most common joints affected by osteoarthritis were the elbow. 59% of cats were affected and the hip joint were 48% of cats were affected. So I thought that was really interesting. I would have thought knees maybe would be one of them and they were affected, but they just weren't in the top two. Yeah. So is the hip more like from the impact from when they're jumping? Must be from jumping. You know what, hips probably do a lot of the jump up and elbows probably adorable after the jump down. And I wonder if they're jumping up and down onto harder surfaces. Yeah. When they were maybe out in the wild because now it's countertops and tile floors and yeah. And not grasslands. Yeah. That's interesting. I, I don't have any research to back that up, but speculation. Speculation. We are not professors and we don't have all the alphabet after our name. That's right. There's another study done by Professor Bennett and several others that looked at the prevalence of degenerative joint disease in cats, and they found that 63.8% of those cats had primary arthritis. Primary arthritis means that it develops over time like it's the natural progression of aging joints as opposed to like secondary, which is from something like a traumatic event or something. We mentioned all of this really to emphasize how important a yearly exam is for for your cat. We don't see as many cats in the vet as we do dogs. They just don't come in until there's something wrong. Usually. Yes, yes. And then the huge thing is that particularly as your cat ages, it's going to become even more important to have that yearly exam. I mean, I recognize that it can be quite a task sometimes to take your cat into the vet, but we're here to advocate that getting your aging cat a yearly exam and bloodwork really is extremely beneficial. You and your vet can be aware of any illnesses kind of creeping up on bloodwork or any chronic pain as your pet advances in age, which is really all that is really important. It is really important. Okay, thanks for important stuff. It's time for a review. I don't know why I'm using this voice. This fun one. Okay. It's a fun voice. We're good. We're just gonna do it with it then. Um. Let us. Chelsea. Let us. Chelsea is great grammar. This review is for a product called Pet Faves. It is a natural dog, hip and joint supplement for dogs. Arthritis. Pain relief. Turmeric. Curcumin. Curcumin. Curcumin. Curcumin I don't know what that is or whatever that is with black pepper for anti-inflammatory turmeric, MSM, glucosamine, conjoint for dog healthy joint. Okay okay. And I have a review from Mary. Mary's quite contrary. She gonna tell you how her dog joints don't grow. Yes. That's what she's gonna tell us. This verify purchase that earned one star. Oh, dear. She's not gonna tell you how that grew. Too spicy for my Mexican Chihuahua. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! What is it? The curcumin or the black pepper? Dogs wouldn't touch the stuff. It smelled pretty spicy, but they're Chihuahuas. I had to send it back. But since she was in there, my issue is. So they must be
with my eye. Excuse me. Mary. Mary. But actually, that's very inappropriate. That's very silly. I did one time, I was doing my training classes, and I had a student who came in and he's like, I'm real nervous. I said, well, what is okay, everyone has puppies here, you know? And he's like, no, I just I don't know any German. He had a German shepherd. So, um, it had the black pepper in it for anti-inflammatory, which I thought was real helpful. I don't think I don't I don't recommend that you are out here giving turmeric and black pepper off of Amazon. I mean, listen, we already talked about it. I had a lot of inflammation in my tailbone area and the doctor never prescribed black pepper. Now I enjoy a good fresh cracked pepper on my macaroni and cheese. Back when I was the macaroni and cheese girl, you know? But I do use a lot of white pepper now. Can't tell you that eating black pepper on my food is ever made a difference with mine. Yeah, I don't know, maybe I'm missing out. Maybe I should go back to black pepper. Turmeric? Has I used to take a for inflammation in my foot with the bad bone? I don't anymore because I ran out and I'm too lazy to buy more. Did it work? Did it help? Yeah it did. It was great help. It has plenty of health benefits. I don't know about health benefits as far as dogs go. Yeah. That do. That's fair. I don't do, you know alternative medicine for dogs. I do veterinary medicine for dogs. So we have different different training there. Yeah. But I'm also cautious when buying something like that off of Amazon. Just because you don't know where it's coming from. You don't know what the concentrations in there. You don't know what the side effects might be. So that's a good point. I would be careful. But you know, also save the black pepper for your salad girl. That's right. That's right. You want to talk about hip dysplasia? I do want to talk about hip dysplasia. Hips on line. These hits are not made right. That's not the tune of the song, but that's okay. I tried to get the tune, but I didn't, and I was about to give it another go. But then you came in with it, even wronger to speak because honestly, there's nothing wrong with doing you. You know, I'm good with it. As long as you don't mind the silly I love silly. We love silly. Yeah. Tell me about the hip dysplasia. Dysplasia means abnormal growth. So hip dysplasia is abnormal growth or abnormal development of the hips. So a normal hip is going to consist of a ball and socket joint. Right. So the femoral head is around like a ball. And it connects the femur to the pelvis the socket of which is called the acetabulum. That's a fun new word. Yeah that's a big word. It's the acetabulum. Is the socket part of the pelvis. Sock it to me. Yes. Both the femoral head and the acetabulum are coated in smooth cartilage. So movement is nearly frictionless. The head of the femur is like a fist, and the acetabulum of the hip is kind of like your other hand over the fist. So that's kind of cupping it and holding on to it. But in a dog with hip dysplasia, the acetabulum is flattened and the femoral head is not held tightly in place, which creates this kind of slippage. And that makes the joint unstable. And so, as the sucker did, yes. As the animal attempts to stabilize the tip over time, it creates arthritis, according to our favorite website veterinary partner. They have an article on hip dysplasia and dogs, but they say that the most common kind of pet to have hip dysplasia is going to be a large breed dog, and the larger the dog, the more likely the dog is going to be to have that problem. So this condition is considered to be genetic, very common in German Shepherds. Oh. Mhm. Mhm. Well they were saying that rapid weight gain and growth further complicates hip dysplasia. So like for an example you know a Great Dane puppy might grow from £2 at birth to £25 at two months old to 150 at a year old. And they're still not done growing the dogs with hip dysplasia. They don't always show signs of it, but some common ones are going to be limping, reluctance to jump, loss of muscle mass on the rear legs and hip pain. Arthritis commonly develops over time with dogs that have hip dysplasia. Yeah, and unfortunately it is a chronic and degenerative illness. There is no cure for it though. You can maintain a pet with it, especially if you start early and make their life more comfortable. There's always going to be that level of discomfort. When it comes to dogs with hip dysplasia, they're just never going to have that normal range of motion and things in the back end. That is aside from total hip replacement procedures. You feel like German Shepherds are the most common ones that you see? That is one of the most common I see like it is more common in the larger breeds, but for some reason we see it in those the most. That makes sense. I feel like the most common that I've heard has it is the Rhodesian Ridgeback. We don't. Not too many people have them, feed them very often. Yeah. So I can't say that it's the most common thing we see just because we have a few mixed Rhodesian Redbacks that come in every now and again. But they're not like something we prevalently see. Yeah, I haven't seen a ton of those really throughout my entire career I've only really seen a handful, but I feel like anytime someone mentions hip dysplasia, it's always in Ridgeback. So that's their worst problem or something like that. It would make sense. I could see it. Did you know hip dysplasia can also happen? It gets interesting. Yeah, I've never seen it actually in a cat myself either. The Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery has an article that I was reading that says it's much more common in purebred cats because it's genetic. Do you know what breed of cat is most likely to be affected? I'm going to think Maine Coons are the largest. That's the one. Yeah. So that's what I said is the number one cat that has hip dysplasia is the Maine Coon. Now that you mention it, I have heard Doctor Peterson mentioned it before. We have a couple of Maine Coons that come in, and he's constantly checking their mobility in their back legs. Interesting. Now I've put it together. Yeah, well, this article said that Himalayan and Persians are higher up on the list as well among the top breeds affected. So onset of signs in cats can really be anywhere between like three months and three and a half years of age. And not all of the signs of hip dysplasia are going to be lameness and unwillingness to jump in. Cats, like signs of pain and discomfort can be as generalized as weight loss, aggression, and vocalization, which is those are very vague symptoms. So pain from hip dysplasia and from osteoarthritis can make cats really restless and uncomfortable, even in their normal sitting or laying down postures. Ooh, how about a commercial break? Okay, so I love talking about these like, joint things and whatnots because, you know, joints. Um, but I think it's time to take a break for a sports break. And if we don't have a sponsor, it's just a break. Break. So, you know, like, do what you got to do on your end, too, and then we'll catch you back in a minute. Okay? Bye. I'm. And we're doing a countdown. It's 30. Countdown to noon. I heard her meow, meow. Oh, my. No, no. I think actually we're live, so. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! We're alive now. Um. What? Oh. Awkward. No. Awkward. I can bring this all back with a with a review. I would love a review. This is for that same turmeric two. Oh, yeah. The one that was too spicy for the Mexican dogs. It was too spicy. This is a one star review from Sandy beaches. Okay. What's up? Sandy? How's the beaches? Uses verified purchase called can't use this product. Sammy says it smells like an ashtray or a barbecue pit. Not smoky. I gave my dog a piece of one. She spit it out and looked at me like, why did you give me that under review? Okay, um, I've never smelled a barbecue pit and said to myself, gosh, this smells like an ashtray. I am not, and I desperately cannot stand the smell of an ashtray. Uh, dad was a smoker growing up, and it was always like this biggest thing where I would hide a cigarettes, and I hated it. I smell barbecue all the time, and I'm like, put that cigarette out. Every time I walk into Sonny's, I'm just like, get me out of here. Smells like a casino in here. Smoking section. Jeez. Good night. You know, I, I don't think I actually know what turmeric smells like. I don't think I've ever just taken it out of the spice cabinet and been like. I feel like you're going to get it up your nose. I might do that. Like I might go sniffing. Maybe not like a crazy person, but I might go, like, take a little with, you know, a super sniffer. Might try to check that out. I see you at work, and you come in with these giant eyes and a yellow nose, and I'm gonna know you got into the tumor. You'll just know you'll be like, hey, hey. Also, you smell like an ashtray and a barbecue pit. Yeah, for some reason. Did you bring ribs? Because now I'm like, kind of. What is now I'm gonna hungry. That's very funny. Do you wanna talk about clitoris? Oh, we see so many of these. I remember from. We sees a lot of them. Oh, let's talk about what it is. I have a lot of notes that hopefully will help explain CLS in in an easy way. But for mammal knee anatomy, like dogs and cats in particular, the knee joint, also called the stifle, right hip joint, hip just connected to the I don't know where we're going with it. I don't know the song. I'm just bopping along. There's, you know, when you're learning your bones at your kid isn't the most connected to the something, right? Yeah, I don't I never learned that. Okay, well, you nailed it. I honestly, I honestly, it's been so long ago. We're talking at least 90 years ago at this point, and I don't remember the way when I don't know if did we ever get as detailed where we're like? The wrist bone is connected to the elbow bone. I'm not really sure. Well, I hope your wrist bonus and connected to your elbow bone. I mean, that would be a little less unusual. I don't have a forearm. It had the carpal tunnel. I've just decided to eliminate the forearm up together. Um, I kind of thought you didn't notice. Okay, so the stifle. There's the knee joint. Right? It's where the. The femur meets the tibia and fibula. Right. The patella is the kneecap. And there are a number of ligaments surrounding the knee joint itself. Now, humans, canines and felines all have a lateral and a medial meniscus. We probably all heard those terms before. Even if we don't know exactly what they are. They help to kind of cushion where the femur and the tibia meet. I've had a meniscus injury. Have you really? I had one recently on my medial meniscus, which I thought those weren't, like curable. Like once it was damaged, it was damaged, but. It did get better, so mine would not have been. Around the meniscus area. So better. Oh yeah. Okay. Maybe mine was soft tissue and the ultrasound on me and X-rayed me and and the doctor did all the things. And I was like, does it hurt when I do your knee like this? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, cool. And then he's like, this is the resident doctor that we're teaching or whatever. And he's like, I'm gonna have him feel now. And so then the other doctor came and he was like, does it hurt when I do this? And I'm like, yeah, I did. I said, so, and he's like, good. We got the same response. So anyway, I'm glad I got to help teach a new doctor. But also. Oh right. Yeah, same thing like that. She was like pushing on like a B and Downey on my ab around my knee a B and Downey when it got to like that certain spot I was just like oh. And she was like, oh yeah, that's what that is. No big deal. That's okay. They all have a lateral and medial meniscus. All three species have a medial collateral ligament that connects the femur to the tibia, and a lateral collateral ligament that connects the femur to the fibula. People. Dogs, cats. We all have that. All three species also have two cruciate ligaments that tie the femur to the tibia, that allow for smooth movement of the joint. Right. So all all three species have all of those things in common. But in humans, those cruciate ligament are called the anterior and the posterior cruciate ligament. Because we've all heard of ACLs, I don't know how often we hear about PCL. We've heard it for a lot of poor football players who end their career. I don't watch football. I just think I've when Doctor Peterson explains it. Yeah. So animals also have those two cruciate ligament. But in animals they're called the cranial cruciate ligament and the caudal cruciate ligament. These ligaments perform similar function in the human knee and in the animal knee. But the reason they have different names is because humans are bipedal. And most mammals are quadrupedal. So in humans, the front of the knee faces ahead in front of the body, in the back of the knee, faces behind the body. But for quadrupedal animals like cats and dogs, the front of their knee faces forward toward their head, right or toward their cranium. So you have the cranial cruciate ligament and the back of their knee faces back towards their tail and caudal means tail. Now, I did ask myself why we always hear of injuries to the ACL in humans, but never to the posterior cruciate ligament. You know, I've never heard of a caudal cruciate ligament tear, so I got on the phone with Stacy. Stacy is my best friend in the whole wide world, and she is a veterinarian. She said that if cruciate ligament weren't there, the femur would slide backwards, pushing the tibia forwards. And it's the cranial cruciate ligament that keeps the joint aligned correctly to prevent the femur from falling behind the tibia. And the purpose of the caudal cruciate ligament is to prevent the femur from sliding forwards over the tibia. But that isn't a thing that a femur is naturally inclined to do, which is why ACLs and CCL. When we say CCL, we are always referring to the cranial cruciate ligament. But she said that's why ACL and CLS get torn more. The caudal cruciate ligament does not typically tear unless there's been significant trauma to the knee. That's that's kind of the overall. Do you know how they check for that? Oh tell me. Okay, because I know the term, but I don't actually know what like what that means. Like what it does. So they're usually looking for what he refers to the cranial drawer. Drawer. I've heard the term before. And so what he does, he stabilizes the femur with one hand okay. And then with the other hand, he manipulates the tibia. Okay. If it pushes forward and you can see it, that's called a cranial drawer. And that means that there is a tear in the ligament. So like like a drawer pulling out of a desk, like a drawer pulling out of a desk. That's what it looks like. So if a pet's knee is the drawer, you're pulling the drawer toward the head physically. See? Oh, I think that would make me green. I don't do bones. It just looks like a bump under the skin, like there's no bone coming through the skin. Does it seem painful when he does that? Like for for the animals that have the drawer, depending on the severity. So a lot of times he's going to do that full manipulation while they're sedated for X-rays. Oh, because it can be. Now if he does it, it's slightly in a room and gets a little bit of instability in the joint. That's when you recommend we need to do a sedation and a further look into X-rays to look for a fusion around the joints, and I would also define a fusion swelling and inflammation around the joint. Perfect. Okay. And so then when he moves it around while they're asleep, they don't feel it. And then he can actually see how severe it could be because it could be a partial or it could be a full on tear. Yeah. Okay. That's really cool. I don't know if this is something that I don't think we already mentioned it, but Doctor Peterson is an orthopedic surgeon. Yes. So like these are things that you you get to see one thing though, once you repair one knee, you got about a 50% chance or more that it's going to develop in the other knee. And you will eventually have to have surgery too. I read that also. Yeah, that's that sounds right, because you published a paper and said the same thing, like the process that leads to a tear in one knee is most likely to lead to a tear in the other. Because what happens is now you've changed the anatomy of your other leg slightly. The dog's probably going to put a little bit more weight and pressure on that other leg, and it's going to blow out that joint faster. Yeah. So mobility issues very rare. Do any of them have a cure. So in the instance of a CL tear. The surgery is curative, right? But it does open up the possibility that you'll have to have a surgery on the other leg eventually and down the line because of the inflammation and things from having surgery, there will be arthritis that will probably develop in that joint anyway. So you'll have a different case later on. So curative to a sense, but this one problem gets cured. But secondary changes can also occur. I feel like that's a lot of just medicine in general. Yeah I agree, when they recommended removing the little bone out of my foot, they said the risk is the scar tissue that develops may wind up being bigger than the bone was. Oh, and causing more trouble down the line. Interesting. Mm mm. Well, the most common signs of cl tare being painful and non weight bearing on a hind limb. I've seen it a lot. It's like I feel like I mean it's been a long time since I've seen you know a CCL tear. But I feel like it was always so evident when there was a dog that came in on three legs and one of the back legs, just there was no weight on it whatsoever. We were all like, yo, that's a CL. Like, they're easy to spot. They are. Yeah. Sometimes you have a partial and then we just medicate him in bed, rest him the rice formula, if you will. The rice rest, ice compression and elevation. Elevation. Yeah. I'm saying it's a lot like rice, which is what he told me to do with my knee. Okay, we we can have you do the similar rest and NSAIDs and the whole thing to help treat a partial. And hopefully your dog can get together. You got to be real tender on it for a while, or else you'll turn that into a full. Yeah, I bet the College of Veterinary Medicine at UF was saying that sometimes lameness can improve if surgical repair is not elected, but they said that also like sudden worsening can also happen if if the medial meniscus also becomes damaged, which apparently is pretty common when you have a clear tear, like the next thing to go is a meniscus, is that over time, the body will attempt to stabilize itself with scar tissue, just like you were saying. But that limits the range in the motion of the knee, and it compromises the joint. And arthritis can then develop from the chronic instability. So like either way, there'll be some arthritis. Yeah. Arthritis is arthritis. Oh, that's French as heck, man. In the Canadian Veterinary Journal. They had an article about the feline cruciate rupture in 2007, and it said that cats with traumatic CCL ruptures commonly happen because of a fall from a significant height. I've never seen a CCL tear in a cat have you know. I haven't seen too many. Well, any tears that I can recall in my years so far. Not to say that it won't happen at some point, but. Right. I've seen lots of gnarly fractures. Yeah. Well, this is the with cats that have a CL tear, but without apparent trauma. Most are commonly overweight and they just have degenerative changes. Degenerative change in the stifle which is the knee joint. Um, specifically, they tend to be more severe and can happen earlier with increasing weight in cats. I have another review for us. Ah, am I actually for sure. So this is called pet away pain. Oh, okay. It is a pain away all natural dog. Arthritis. Pain relief. Pain away. Pain relief. Yeah. Okay. Cat pain relief. Dog pain relief. Anti-inflammatory. Dog joint pain relief. Okay. Homeopathic. Homeopathic pain reliever for large and small dogs and cats, two ounces. Is this like a supplement they're supposed to consume, or is it like a bio freeze or what? You're supposed to put it in their food? Okay, easy use. Not like a powder or something to gel to gel. Okay. Yeah. Jello for you. Now, when I first read this relief or when I first read this review, yeah, I was like, well, this is silly. It's a one star review from Tammy Wynette. Oh, stand by your dog. There you go. He needs help. Stand it while we get this, guys. Really? Yeah. It's right. Okay. I have a senior cat and dog. And my cat wouldn't even try it. My dog who eats anything. Tasted it but quickly pulled his head back. I'm sure she meant fed. I think so, but it's ag apostrophe d hahahahahahahaha. And acted like it was the worry. Worst thing he'd ever tasted. The worry worst. The worry. Worst thing he ever tasted. What? I guess Cobra venom isn't his thing. It's gone straight into the garbage. Cobra? Does she mean snake oil? Okay, so here's the thing. I thought, well, that's wild. Surely they misunderstood something. And then I looked at this ingredient. Oh, and I would like you to see their active ingredient. Okay. Asian cobra venom for X as an analgesic. This has cobra venom. Uh, what? Asian cobra venom? Um, I I yeah, I don't even know what to say. They're supposed to take it. Yeah. You give this a whirl, you're gonna give an eighth of a teaspoon one time per day? Uh, by mouth. I don't even know how that would possibly work. Um, I don't either, but it's a homeopathic, so I'm going to need you to get on board here. Okay. Um. Hold me. homie? Oh, no. I'm considering starting an Asian cobra farm so that I can collect this venom. You might die in the process. Are you okay with that? I've lived a good life. Okay, I'm ready to collect some venom. Who doesn't want to go around? Be like my cat eats cobra venom. And so therefore, he's. He's better than your cat, right? I read on Facebook, so who knows the validity of this story? But it was the story of this scientist who was doing a trial or something on these extremely venomous snakes. I just want to take a moment before I continue the story to point out the difference between Benjamin Poison, because a lot of people kind of consider them interchangeable. They're not, um, venom is if something bites you and you die, that's venom. If you bite something and you die, that's poison. So just the two different ways, like venom gets in your bloodstream, poison is ingested. So this, this scientist, uh, was doing some sort of work with, with these very venomous snakes. And he got bit by one. And so instead of going to the hospital, he documented his symptoms, and he documented them that night, like all the vomiting and the cramping and the nausea and everything. And the next morning, his wife was like, you need to go to the hospital. And he's like, no, I'm just gonna continue documenting. It was a it was a baby. Juvenile snake, and I can't for the life of me remember what it was. Continued documenting until he died, which was like a day or two later. The reason he didn't go to the hospital, according to Facebook. Right. It's Facebook. So yeah, I said that he he knew that there were only two places in the entire world that had the antivenom, and they were both in Africa, and he was in the US. So there was no way that the hospital was going to be able to help him any way he was going to die anyway. So all that to say, yeah, like venom is no joke, but does it do me doing a pea sized amount for your arthritis and you're ingesting it rather than it getting in your bloodstream? I don't know, that's that's just why I'm going to vote against the vape. Yeah, unless it's coming from a doctor that tells me this is what I'm recommending. This is why I'm recommending it. This is how I expect it to work. These are the side effects. Give it a go. So I'm not gonna buy snake venom off Amazon. No dog. No is what I should clarify and say. No. I might actually put that in the category of snake oil. Funny enough, I have a wrap up question for you. Wrap it up, girl. Wrap it up. Is there anything new that you learned from this episode, whether talking to Doctor Peterson or doing any research on your own, anything that kind of sticks out to you or is particularly interesting? Funny enough, that's super long word for darklaw. Ah, Mhm. Okay. To me. Only to me only because seeing that word next to deacon parentheses, I've never had an interest in trying to figure out why I was there. And then the prevalence of it in the elbows and hips. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? I really enjoyed learning the anatomy of the knee, particularly because it is very, very similar in people as it is in dogs and cats. So I thought that was really interesting. And just kind of your, your facts that Doctor Peterson was telling you about was with all of these subjects was really interesting because I've never worked with a orthopedic surgeon before. That's that's it. That's all I got. What about you? Um, that's what I got, too. I do have a full bibliography for all of the resources and articles and stuff that I use to pull all this information, and that will be available in the show notes. Wonderful. Uh, we have social media handles. They will also be in the show notes. But if you have questions or reviews you want to send us or you like a copy of our AI generated song, please email us at. Otherwise, we'll catch you in part two. Enjoy the episode, everyone! Welcome, Eggo! We had a great time. I'm ready for this AI song, right? This is gonna be. I'm ready to dance. All right. Thank you. Bye bye. Creep back over the floor. You can't feel the pain inside the core. Professionals through the dark side. Struggle. Hit like a star. These hands don't cry. They scream. Move them hard. Live the dream. Next turn at the team who are in life and cannot scream. Hey guys, I don't. Know what exactly is causing. All dogs howl at the silver moon. Cats whisper secrets in the tune. The fat crows face and souls will soon fall short. Break. We ain't no blue alleys begging for scraps. And it's all a lie in the dark. Just mess with the pain that feels like that. So exquisite and feral trap. So quick for the long bone. Hey, we'll keep going. These kids don't cry. They scream. Move them hard. Live the dream. Neck pain. Tearing at the seams. Wildlife and canine streets are not just fighting like that. No. Better check to me for clues. Names who never say oh, don't tell yourself the moon can't whisper secrets. And the truth that make it so, so, so so so great. We ain't no boo boo. I just. Don't have a feel for the squad like stone. So I say when you're alone. Feel that burnt to the bone. Ain't with friends. Will keep going.