Rethinking Rescue: Pets, Poverty, and Compassion
In this episode, we're talking with journalist Carol Mithers about her upcoming book, RETHINKING RESCUE: Dog Lady and the Story of America’s Forgotten People and Pets. This book takes a heartfelt look at the special bonds between pets and their owners, even when those owners are struggling with poverty, addiction, or homelessness.
One often overlooked topic is how poverty directly impacts a person's ability to care for their pets, highlighting the need to address the social issue of poverty itself. By understanding these connections, we can work toward more comprehensive solutions that support both people and their pets.
Listen to Episode #62 Now:
BIO:
Carol Mithers is a journalist who has written about Los Angeles and extraordinary women for over thirty years. Her work has appeared in The New York Times; Los Angeles Times; LA Weekly; O, the Oprah Magazine; and elsewhere. She is the author of three books, including Mighty Be Our Powers: How Sisterhood, Prayer, and Sex Changed a Nation at War, written with Nobel Peace Prize laureate Leymah Gbowee, which was a finalist for the Dayton Literary Peace Prize and has been reprinted in fourteen languages.
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Beverly Isla: Welcome to Save A Pooch on Pet Life Radio.
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Beverly Isla: Thank you for listening in today.
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Beverly Isla: I am Beverly Isla, your host.
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Beverly Isla: Our guest today is Carol Mithers.
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Beverly Isla: She's a seasoned journalist and author.
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Beverly Isla: Her new book titled Rethinking Rescue, Dog Lady and the Story of America's Forgotten People and Pets, take us into the topic of pets owned by those facing poverty, addiction, homeless lists, challenging stereotypes, and highlighting the deep bonds between these pets and their owners.
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Beverly Isla: We'll also learn about Lori Weiss, the main character in the book, and the founder of LA's Downtown Dog Rescue, and her efforts to save thousands of animals on the city's toughest streets.
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Beverly Isla: And I really, really appreciate Carol's take on this, which acknowledges the overlooked connections between poverty and pet care, urging us to consider the broader social issues at play.
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Beverly Isla: So when we get back from these messages, we will hear from Carol Mithers.
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Beverly Isla: We are talking with journalist and author Carol Mithers about her forthcoming book, Rethinking Rescue, Dog Lady and the Stories, and the Story of America's Forgotten People and Pets.
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Beverly Isla: Tongue twister there.
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Beverly Isla: And the important questions it raises about compassion, social justice, and the love between humans and their pets.
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Beverly Isla: So thank you, thank you for taking the time today to share your discoveries and issues your book shines a flashlight on, which we'll dive into.
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Beverly Isla: So first off, congrats on your upcoming book release.
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Carol Mithers: Thank you.
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Carol Mithers: It's great to be here talking to you and to pet lovers.
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Beverly Isla: Yes, absolutely.
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Beverly Isla: I'm actually halfway through it.
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Beverly Isla: And the story behind Laurie really drew me in.
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Beverly Isla: So I love how you integrated those social issues that need to be talked about, which isn't easy to talk about, but it needs to be had.
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Carol Mithers: Yep, yep, yep.
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Beverly Isla: Yeah, and at first I was like, Laurie, is she a fictional character?
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Beverly Isla: Is she really Carol?
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Carol Mithers: But she is an amazing human being, is what she is.
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Beverly Isla: In a whole, she's been through it all, I tell you.
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Beverly Isla: How did you get the idea of writing this book in a way that highlights what it does highlight behind the animal welfare movement and the social issues?
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Carol Mithers: It started on a personal level, which was I got obsessed with the idea of animal hoarding after I read a story about it in the local paper.
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Carol Mithers: And I decided I had to write about this story.
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Carol Mithers: And a friend of mine who I had recently reconnected with and who was herself a dog rescuer, is a dog rescuer, suggested I talk to Lori.
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Carol Mithers: Lori had just come off a bout with an animal hoarder, and so she had a lot to say about the subject.
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Carol Mithers: I met with her downtown where she had her dog kennel at the factory that she managed, and she talked to me about her hoarding experience.
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Carol Mithers: But more than that, she also talked about what she did, what downtown dog rescue did.
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Carol Mithers: They'd been in existence for, it was not quite 10 years at that point, actually almost 20 years at that point.
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Carol Mithers: And the stories she told me were one, amazing, and two, things I had never thought about.
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Carol Mithers: Because like most people, I knew what rescue was, kind of.
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Carol Mithers: I knew what the no kill movement was, kind of.
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Carol Mithers: But I had not really thought about issues like, well, where are those dogs coming from that are in the shelters?
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Carol Mithers: And did they have homes before?
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Carol Mithers: And if they did, what happened to those people?
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Carol Mithers: And what happens to homeless people with pets?
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Carol Mithers: And all of these things that she dealt with on a daily basis were news to me and fascinating.
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Carol Mithers: And I decided then that I was going to write about her.
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Carol Mithers: But I thought then that what I was going to write was a much more traditional story about an amazing woman who was saving all these fabulous dogs.
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Carol Mithers: And as I got to know her better, I realized that there was much more to this story.
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Carol Mithers: Because if you step into her world and start to talk to her, you realize that you have to think about who those people are.
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Carol Mithers: And that's who she was dealing with, and that's who she was helping.
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Carol Mithers: And I realized it was a much larger story, which is partly why it took me close to 10 years to actually write the book, because it was a much more complicated story than I had originally understood.
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Beverly Isla: Right, yeah, exactly.
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Beverly Isla: You can tell by reading, it's like, oh, this is a bigger piece, because you're kind of almost following her life from when she started it all.
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Beverly Isla: And it's, wow, the stories that's portrayed in that book of the details of what she dealt with in the so-called bad neighborhoods of LA, it is fascinating.
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Beverly Isla: She has courage.
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Beverly Isla: I have to give her that.
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Beverly Isla: She has courage.
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Carol Mithers: She has courage, and I think she has vision.
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Carol Mithers: She's very, very stubborn, and I mean that in a good way, is that when she decides she has an answer to something or something needs to be done, she's one of those people who does it.
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Carol Mithers: I think she told me once a long time ago that maybe there'll be trash on the sidewalk, and 20 people will walk by that trash and think, oh, God, somebody should pick that up.
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Carol Mithers: She's the one who stops and picks it up.
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Beverly Isla: Yeah, and her story with Benny.
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Beverly Isla: Oh, wow.
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Beverly Isla: So speaking of her relationship with these owners, I mean, wow, the average person probably wouldn't have gone as far as she did.
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Beverly Isla: So how did she manage to support them without having to fix them?
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Carol Mithers: Well, she would tell you, I think, early on, she did try to fix them, and that it was a hard learning lesson for her to realize that that was not her role and that she couldn't do it.
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Carol Mithers: Now, Benny was a unhoused man that she met very early on in her journey.
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Carol Mithers: He had a drinking problem.
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Carol Mithers: He lived in an alley in downtown Los Angeles, and he loved dogs, and he called himself the Dog Man.
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Carol Mithers: And whenever there were stray dogs around, they would find their way to him.
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Carol Mithers: What he didn't do is fix them, deal with their reproductive issues.
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Carol Mithers: And so there were constantly puppies being born.
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Carol Mithers: And she and her coworker, Richard, who started Downtown Dog Rescue with her, would use their own money, basically, to take these dogs to vets and get them sterilized to try to cut down on the number of strays that they saw in those days running on the streets of Downtown LA.
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Carol Mithers: But Lori, early on, wanted to get Benny off the street.
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Carol Mithers: She offered to help rent him an apartment, to get him on Social Security, to do whatever she could to get him out of the alley that he was living in and into an apartment.
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Carol Mithers: And she was stunned when he would say that he didn't want that.
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Carol Mithers: He was, for whatever his reasons, that's where he wanted to be.
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Carol Mithers: And she had to, with a lot of the people she dealt with, realize that she could make their lives a little better, she could take care of their dogs, but she wasn't going to fix them.
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Beverly Isla: And I guess that is the case with a lot of them.
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Beverly Isla: That actually brings me to my next question, is that one big aspect of your book is the connection between poverty and the ability to care for pets, and that social justice and animal rescue, they're of the same fight.
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Beverly Isla: Now, can you discuss this connection and why addressing the social issue of poverty is essential for animal welfare?
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Beverly Isla: That is the key that I was really drawn into about this book.
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Beverly Isla: It's like, finally, I mean, I'm talking about this.
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Carol Mithers: Well, if you look at, there's maybe four or five different sides to that question.
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Carol Mithers: I mean, the most basic, when people don't have homes, their dogs and cats don't have homes.
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Carol Mithers: And so if you don't have affordable, accessible housing, then you are going to have animals on the street along with their people.
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Carol Mithers: There are financial costs that are assessed in animal control, for instance.
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Carol Mithers: If you are a person living in poverty with maybe a very crowded living situation, there's lots of people crowded into one place, there's maybe five houses jammed onto a single lot, and all of them have dogs, and the fencing isn't as good as it should be, and the dog gets out and gets picked up by an animal control officer and taken to the shelter, you don't just get it back, you've got to pay money to get it back.
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Carol Mithers: And that money, which I don't know what it is at this point, but it's not inconsiderable, and maybe you just don't have it.
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Carol Mithers: And so the dogs that get kept in the shelters because they're not reclaimed by their owners, it could be that the owner simply didn't have money to get it out.
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Carol Mithers: Sometimes there's further charges that are assessed for boarding the dog in the two or three days it took you to realize where it was.
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Carol Mithers: Maybe the dog doesn't have a license or the vaccinations that are required.
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Carol Mithers: And so other fees are then put on top of those initial charges, and it just may be unaffordable.
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Carol Mithers: And then you've got to sacrifice your dog and walk away because you simply don't have the cash.
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Carol Mithers: There are people whose dogs who get citations from animal control because their dog is sick or has mange or isn't living inside, doesn't have adequate shelter.
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Carol Mithers: And again, those are things that people can access if they have money.
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Carol Mithers: Dogs that belong to people without many resources may not get sterilized because sterilization can be expensive, or finding a subsidized way to sterilize an animal isn't so easy.
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Carol Mithers: Maybe it means getting to a place across town, which you can't do if you don't have a car because you've got a 70-pound dog, and it's not going to be able to go on the subway or bus with you.
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Carol Mithers: And so those dogs, unfortunately, end up having litters, and the litters get dumped in the shelter because there's nothing else to be done with them.
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Carol Mithers: And so the other big issue is that it is very difficult to find pet-friendly housing if you're a renter.
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Carol Mithers: It can be.
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Carol Mithers: And so if you are a person with an animal and you are either pushed out of your housing or you need to find new housing, and you simply cannot find anywhere to live that will accept your dog, you may end up turning your dog into the shelter because otherwise you're going to end up on the street.
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Carol Mithers: There are also landlords who sort of look the other way when a family moves in with an animal and then changes their mind or the place gets sold to somebody else, and they are told, you know, either the dog goes or you do.
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Carol Mithers: And I think a lot of people...
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Carol Mithers: It's very common on Facebook, places like that where rescue...
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Carol Mithers: people involved in rescue talk to each other to say, oh, I would never do that.
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Carol Mithers: I would rather live on the street before I get rid of my dog.
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Carol Mithers: And it's easy to say that if you're never really going to have to live on the street.
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Carol Mithers: But most of us wouldn't make that choice.
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Carol Mithers: The streets are dangerous and dirty, and if you have children, you're not going to take them onto the street with you.
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Carol Mithers: And so people sadly are forced to relinquish their pets because it's either that or have no housing.
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Beverly Isla: Exactly.
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Beverly Isla: I know here it is.
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Beverly Isla: It is hard for people to find rental properties with a dog here.
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Carol Mithers: Where are you?
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Beverly Isla: In Canada.
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Beverly Isla: We don't have straight dogs here, which is good.
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Carol Mithers: The other thing that has become more common, especially in places like Los Angeles where I live, is the phenomenon of pet rent and pet deposits, which is that landlords will say, yes, you can have an animal, but you have to pay $50 extra per month for that animal.
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Carol Mithers: And that makes unaffordable housing even more unaffordable.
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Beverly Isla: Right.
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Beverly Isla: Now, before we go on a break here, I just want to quickly mention that in the book, I do notice that Lori was very empathetic with the dog owners.
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Beverly Isla: So I understand the financial angle of that, but I also understand that the emotional side of people living on the streets, having a pet actually helps them in that regard.
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Carol Mithers: It does.
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Carol Mithers: And I don't want to suggest that everybody who's living on the street is a wonderful human, what a great pet owner, because she would be the first to tell you that there are people that are really just trading animals for drugs, and the animal helps them get more from when they're begging.
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Carol Mithers: But there are people where that is the one being that loves them and respects them and is always happy to see them and kind of gives shape to their days because you don't think about how aimless a day without work, or friends, or obligations are.
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Carol Mithers: You're just out there, and you have to, with a dog or a cat, you have to get up, you have to make sure they're fed, you keep them warm.
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Carol Mithers: You have a soul that really is attached to you.
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Carol Mithers: And some homeless people and their dogs are really, really bonded to each other.
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Beverly Isla: Absolutely.
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Beverly Isla: Yeah, that came across really clear in the book, so I'm glad that was covered as well.
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Beverly Isla: You're right.
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Beverly Isla: It hasn't been talked about in a holistic way.
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Beverly Isla: I think that if a dog is in a kennel, and it's for sure, for sure on the kill list, then in my opinion, I think they're kind of better off on the street then.
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Carol Mithers: They are.
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Carol Mithers: And it's not just that.
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Carol Mithers: It's that you can help those people be better dog owners, and that's what she was trying to do.
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Beverly Isla: Right.
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Beverly Isla: Exactly.
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Beverly Isla: Yeah.
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Beverly Isla: Yeah.
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Beverly Isla: So she was taking an angle that a lot of other rescue organizations wasn't taking, but we were on that rabbit hole after the break.
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Beverly Isla: So we're just going to have a quick break, and when we get back, we'll continue talking with Carol Mithers.
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Beverly Isla: Welcome back to Save a Pooch.
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Beverly Isla: We are talking with Carol Mithers, journalist and author with a new book, Rethinking Rescue, Dog Lady, and the story of America's Forgotten People and Pets that encourages important questions to ask in the world of rescue animals and social justice.
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Beverly Isla: So let's touch upon what Laurie's angle was.
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Beverly Isla: What's your take on her helping homeless people with, you know, getting spayed and all that?
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Carol Mithers: Well, she was helping people that she considered to be good dog owners who are lacking resources and understanding.
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Carol Mithers: There were people who she saw as very poor dog owners, and her line was always, you know, if you beat that dog, if you kick that dog, if your boyfriend isn't good to that dog, you know, I'm going to take it, that dog is mine.
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Carol Mithers: Because she had a very strong red line about any kind of animal mistreatment, that was not okay.
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Carol Mithers: But someone who simply was not together enough to get an animal spayed or neutered, she could help make that happen.
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Carol Mithers: And that would mean that there would be less puppies and kittens running around.
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Carol Mithers: If somebody needed help getting food for that animal, she could do that.
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Carol Mithers: And the other thing that she did downtown that was kind of extraordinary was with, there was a time when LA Animal Services would not grant dog licenses to animals that belonged to unhoused people because they said you have to have a physical address to register that animal.
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Carol Mithers: And that meant that if a dog got picked up on the street, it looked as if it had no owner because it had no license.
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Carol Mithers: And she, with the help of a man named Larry Hill, who was a shelter worker, who realized that this was insane, he allowed her to use her business address to license some over 300 dogs.
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Carol Mithers: And that meant that if the dogs got picked up on the street, they had an owner, she would get called, she would redeem the dog, and she would bring it back to the person who loved it.
00:18:30.732 --> 00:18:35.812
Carol Mithers: So little workarounds like that make a huge difference.
00:18:35.832 --> 00:18:46.892
Carol Mithers: And LA eventually changed its policies, but it was little workarounds like that that just make an enormous difference in the life of the dog and the person.
00:18:47.292 --> 00:19:02.192
Carol Mithers: Because she also believed that if a dog has grown up on the streets, bonded to one person, and used to sort of a very free-floating existence, and you take that dog away, maybe it's not gonna make the adaptation.
00:19:02.212 --> 00:19:07.832
Carol Mithers: Maybe if you then stick it in a suburban backyard, it's not gonna do well.
00:19:08.092 --> 00:19:12.872
Carol Mithers: So who are you really saving then if you break up that relationship?
00:19:13.352 --> 00:19:14.852
Beverly Isla: Exactly, exactly.
00:19:15.292 --> 00:19:18.092
Beverly Isla: I love her story of Clancy is the name.
00:19:18.112 --> 00:19:21.532
Carol Mithers: Oh, Clancy, the true hero loved on, yeah.
00:19:21.692 --> 00:19:24.372
Beverly Isla: Yeah, yeah, the unlikely pair.
00:19:25.372 --> 00:19:29.612
Carol Mithers: But it's a great source of grief to me that I never met Clancy.
00:19:29.912 --> 00:19:30.972
Beverly Isla: Oh, you never, okay.
00:19:30.992 --> 00:19:32.732
Beverly Isla: Have you met the trainer?
00:19:32.752 --> 00:19:34.612
Beverly Isla: What was the trainer's name?
00:19:34.832 --> 00:19:37.032
Beverly Isla: The one that helped her with the other pit bull?
00:19:37.052 --> 00:19:38.132
Carol Mithers: Oh, yes, I did.
00:19:38.152 --> 00:19:39.112
Carol Mithers: I did Dog Man.
00:19:39.232 --> 00:19:40.292
Beverly Isla: Yes, Dog Man.
00:19:40.752 --> 00:19:44.132
Carol Mithers: Yes, I went to Dog Man's Sunday class and watched him.
00:19:44.132 --> 00:19:46.992
Carol Mithers: He was still out there after all these years.
00:19:48.112 --> 00:19:54.932
Carol Mithers: Yep, people from the neighborhood right near the LA Coliseum screaming at everybody, come on, join the line.
00:19:55.632 --> 00:19:56.752
Carol Mithers: It was great.
00:19:56.912 --> 00:19:58.292
Beverly Isla: That was a good visualization.
00:19:58.312 --> 00:19:59.892
Beverly Isla: I'm like, oh my gosh, I could totally hear him.
00:20:01.512 --> 00:20:07.692
Beverly Isla: It's great that she used him as a resource for the people that needed training.
00:20:08.172 --> 00:20:10.992
Beverly Isla: So yeah, I applaud him for providing that.
00:20:11.272 --> 00:20:14.552
Carol Mithers: He brought together a lot of really different worlds.
00:20:14.772 --> 00:20:20.552
Carol Mithers: And again, some of this happened a little before I came onto the scene.
00:20:20.632 --> 00:20:28.932
Carol Mithers: So I didn't see all of the pit bulls and the locals and the Malibu white ladies and all of them joining the class together.
00:20:28.952 --> 00:20:33.852
Beverly Isla: Oh, actually, you know, let's touch up on that about the racial issue.
00:20:34.932 --> 00:20:35.412
Carol Mithers: Yes.
00:20:35.532 --> 00:20:45.452
Carol Mithers: Well, part of the issue and I think the problem for some of the rescue movement was that it was and is a very white movement.
00:20:45.792 --> 00:20:50.072
Carol Mithers: And there are not nefarious reasons for that.
00:20:50.132 --> 00:21:02.132
Carol Mithers: It's because people who do good work, like suffragists and temperance workers and rescuers, to do that kind of work, which has no money associated with it.
00:21:02.192 --> 00:21:09.872
Carol Mithers: And a lot of time, you have to have extra time and money, which you don't have if you're poor or if you're working three jobs.
00:21:10.132 --> 00:21:14.132
Carol Mithers: So it ended up being a very affluent and white movement.
00:21:14.212 --> 00:21:30.252
Carol Mithers: And I think the biggest problem for that is that in America and maybe in Canada as well, things are very separate between economic classes, between races, and people's lives don't overlap and intersect that often.
00:21:31.572 --> 00:21:35.332
Carol Mithers: Especially so you don't understand how somebody else lives.
00:21:35.592 --> 00:22:02.312
Carol Mithers: And so if you are a Malibu lady and you see somebody with a dog out in a yard in South Central Los Angeles, you can be very judgmental about how that dog is living and not see beyond what is different from your life and not understand the pressures that somebody might have who doesn't have ready access to a good living situation.
00:22:02.672 --> 00:22:16.512
Carol Mithers: And what ended up happening, I think, too often was that the default solution was, let's take that dog away and get it a better home and better, invariably meant more outland.
00:22:16.792 --> 00:22:20.612
Carol Mithers: And so that denigrated the original dog owners.
00:22:20.872 --> 00:22:31.772
Carol Mithers: It sometimes had the effect of people who did not have fancy homes or big salaries wanted to adopt an animal from a rescue group.
00:22:32.052 --> 00:22:33.872
Carol Mithers: And they were turned down.
00:22:34.092 --> 00:22:35.992
Carol Mithers: You don't have what we're looking for.
00:22:36.152 --> 00:22:44.992
Carol Mithers: There were instances where people who are black, who were judged harshly as the, oh, you only want that dog to fight it.
00:22:45.652 --> 00:22:54.392
Carol Mithers: And there was a lot, I think, of misunderstanding of what it took to be a good pet owner and seeing somebody as a human being.
00:22:54.872 --> 00:23:02.712
Beverly Isla: That is one angle that I really, really appreciated that the book took on because it's a touchy subject.
00:23:02.992 --> 00:23:03.332
Carol Mithers: It is.
00:23:03.352 --> 00:23:09.112
Carol Mithers: And I think that people of color did not always talk about this openly.
00:23:10.032 --> 00:23:21.592
Carol Mithers: It was sort of after the George Floyd death when this country was going through a major sort of racial rethinking of what life was.
00:23:21.972 --> 00:23:32.672
Carol Mithers: It was then that some people, both rescuers and would-be-adopters, started talking about, more honestly, about what they'd been through.
00:23:33.432 --> 00:23:40.652
Carol Mithers: And some rescue groups started thinking, wow, we really need to rethink how we approach this.
00:23:40.912 --> 00:23:42.272
Carol Mithers: Is this going to last?
00:23:42.332 --> 00:23:42.912
Carol Mithers: I don't know.
00:23:44.252 --> 00:23:45.472
Beverly Isla: Right, right.
00:23:45.612 --> 00:23:50.712
Beverly Isla: Well, I mean, in the overall bigger picture, I do think it is improving.
00:23:51.552 --> 00:23:53.312
Beverly Isla: But yeah, how it's going to play out?
00:23:53.532 --> 00:23:54.192
Beverly Isla: Not sure.
00:23:54.432 --> 00:24:03.432
Carol Mithers: What's improving is that I think within the rescue world right now, there's a whole lot more understanding that money and class really do play an issue here.
00:24:03.452 --> 00:24:16.692
Carol Mithers: And there's efforts to make veterinary care more affordable or find ways to enable people without great resources to take their pet to the doctor, which was another giant issue.
00:24:16.712 --> 00:24:17.992
Beverly Isla: Yeah, yeah.
00:24:18.092 --> 00:24:18.672
Beverly Isla: Exactly.
00:24:18.692 --> 00:24:19.852
Beverly Isla: That's what I was going to say.
00:24:19.872 --> 00:24:23.832
Beverly Isla: At least there's more education going out across all classes.
00:24:24.332 --> 00:24:25.392
Carol Mithers: Yeah, for sure.
00:24:25.412 --> 00:24:26.052
Beverly Isla: Which is necessary.
00:24:26.492 --> 00:24:34.732
Beverly Isla: Now, in terms of policies, what do you think are necessary to support both pets and their owners in low-income communities?
00:24:35.192 --> 00:24:38.672
Carol Mithers: I think you can have more flexibility on fees.
00:24:38.832 --> 00:24:49.792
Carol Mithers: There was, talking about Canada, there was a point, when I believe it was in Calgary, where it was made much easier and cheaper for pets to get licensed.
00:24:50.092 --> 00:24:57.072
Carol Mithers: And so the number of days that pets that got picked up outside their homes were kept was much less.
00:24:57.292 --> 00:24:58.032
Beverly Isla: Oh, I didn't know that.
00:24:58.292 --> 00:25:00.252
Carol Mithers: I wish I had those stats right at you.
00:25:00.272 --> 00:25:01.412
Carol Mithers: Maybe I'll send them to you.
00:25:01.632 --> 00:25:18.212
Carol Mithers: If somebody doesn't have the money to reclaim a dog, and they were providing a decent home for that dog, does it really make sense for a shelter to say, you can't give me $150, so I'm just going to keep the dog, and the shelter is already overcrowded, and maybe it'll be put down for space?
00:25:20.152 --> 00:25:32.232
Carol Mithers: There was a terrible instance I read about while researching the book of a man whose they were unemployed, the dog got picked up, they got out, it was something like $184, and the dog was euthanized.
00:25:32.512 --> 00:25:37.232
Carol Mithers: And the people were crying and pleading and saying, we want our animal back.
00:25:37.392 --> 00:25:40.212
Carol Mithers: So those kinds of policies would be helpful.
00:25:40.512 --> 00:25:44.112
Carol Mithers: More subsidized spay and neuter would be super helpful.
00:25:44.132 --> 00:25:53.652
Carol Mithers: We are, in this country, really suffering from the two years of COVID when spay and neuter services fell by the wayside for a whole lot of reasons.
00:25:53.672 --> 00:25:59.892
Carol Mithers: And there are litters and litters showing up now that didn't, and when it wasn't that way for years.
00:26:00.112 --> 00:26:06.672
Carol Mithers: So cities could be spending a lot more time and attention and money sterilizing as many animals as they could.
00:26:06.692 --> 00:26:08.332
Beverly Isla: For sure, for sure.
00:26:08.352 --> 00:26:11.632
Beverly Isla: I think that's probably one of the first ones to tackle.
00:26:11.912 --> 00:26:23.372
Beverly Isla: Yeah, now in terms of like the models, like the animal rescue models, how do you think they can shift so that it's from from savior mentality to, like you said, be a more effective approach?
00:26:23.732 --> 00:26:33.492
Carol Mithers: Well, I think the model that Laurie came up with, which was having somebody at the shelter intervening and simply telling people, you've come here to surrender your pet.
00:26:33.712 --> 00:26:34.212
Carol Mithers: Why?
00:26:34.512 --> 00:26:40.252
Carol Mithers: Is there anything that could stop you that would make it possible for you not to turn in that pet?
00:26:40.572 --> 00:26:47.392
Carol Mithers: And people sometimes needed some extra cash, they needed food, they needed referrals to a vet.
00:26:47.592 --> 00:26:52.592
Carol Mithers: It didn't end up costing that much, and it kept those pets out of the shelter.
00:26:52.812 --> 00:27:00.532
Carol Mithers: I think right now, honestly, finding some way to have more affordable veterinary care would make a huge difference.
00:27:00.552 --> 00:27:04.372
Carol Mithers: People are really struggling with veterinary prices.
00:27:05.292 --> 00:27:07.452
Beverly Isla: Oh, don't get me started on those prices.
00:27:09.132 --> 00:27:09.972
Beverly Isla: I know.
00:27:09.992 --> 00:27:11.372
Carol Mithers: It's a whole other issue.
00:27:11.592 --> 00:27:14.652
Beverly Isla: Yeah, even in the prices of adopting a dog here.
00:27:14.672 --> 00:27:18.592
Beverly Isla: Oh, I think the average is around 300 to 400.
00:27:18.612 --> 00:27:19.532
Beverly Isla: And I get it.
00:27:19.552 --> 00:27:19.952
Beverly Isla: I get it.
00:27:19.972 --> 00:27:22.232
Beverly Isla: They need the money to fund their mission.
00:27:22.472 --> 00:27:25.912
Beverly Isla: But a lot of people don't adopt because of that.
00:27:26.172 --> 00:27:26.512
Carol Mithers: Yeah.
00:27:26.732 --> 00:27:31.132
Beverly Isla: Let's go on to what is your next plans after this book?
00:27:31.152 --> 00:27:32.512
Beverly Isla: Will you be writing a part two?
00:27:32.532 --> 00:27:35.032
Carol Mithers: Oh, I don't know.
00:27:35.592 --> 00:27:42.792
Carol Mithers: I don't know about a part two, but probably some follow-up articles because the story didn't stop where the book ends.
00:27:42.812 --> 00:27:53.372
Carol Mithers: Lori is continually thinking of new plans, and she's now bought herself a mobile veterinary van that she runs.
00:27:53.832 --> 00:28:01.332
Carol Mithers: So that she has a cat box clinic where she's helping with low-income cat owners in the neighborhood.
00:28:01.392 --> 00:28:06.552
Carol Mithers: And she's always, always thinking of what is the next thing I can do.
00:28:06.692 --> 00:28:11.112
Carol Mithers: So I will still be following her, and after that, another book.
00:28:11.112 --> 00:28:12.072
Carol Mithers: But on what?
00:28:12.152 --> 00:28:12.832
Carol Mithers: I don't know.
00:28:14.012 --> 00:28:14.632
Beverly Isla: Dog Man.
00:28:14.972 --> 00:28:18.952
Carol Mithers: Yeah, Dog Man, Dog Lady, Dog Child.
00:28:18.972 --> 00:28:20.672
Beverly Isla: That's amazing.
00:28:20.932 --> 00:28:23.192
Beverly Isla: Well, thank you so much for your insights.
00:28:23.452 --> 00:28:28.972
Beverly Isla: So this book will be released, I believe it is, quote me if I'm wrong, August?
00:28:29.132 --> 00:28:41.472
Carol Mithers: August 20th, and it is available at all the usual spots from bookshop.org, Amazon, Target, Walmart, Bantinoble, you name it.
00:28:41.712 --> 00:28:42.252
Beverly Isla: Awesome.
00:28:42.972 --> 00:28:44.672
Beverly Isla: Look forward to getting to the end there.
00:28:47.052 --> 00:28:48.012
Beverly Isla: Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:48.172 --> 00:28:49.272
Beverly Isla: Well, we are out of time.
00:28:49.452 --> 00:28:51.952
Beverly Isla: I really, really again, I appreciate you taking the time.
00:28:52.052 --> 00:28:56.192
Beverly Isla: If you want to know more about Carol's work, the link will be in the show notes.
00:28:56.392 --> 00:28:59.452
Beverly Isla: Thanks to our show producer, Mark Winter, for making this show possible.
00:28:59.472 --> 00:29:04.772
Beverly Isla: If you have any questions, comments, or ideas for a show, please email me at Beverly at petliferadio.com.
00:29:04.992 --> 00:29:07.332
Beverly Isla: So until next time, spread animal compassion.
00:29:08.012 --> 00:29:13.672
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