Pet Health Coach

For many of us, our dogs are our furry children. What you may not realize is, scientifically, they are more like human children than we may even know.  Wendy Lyons Sunshine is an award-winning journalist and author of the new book, Tender Paws: How Science-Based Parenting Can Transform our Relationship with Dogs. It was inspired by the struggles she faced when she and her husband got a new puppy and was informed by her work with child development experts. Let’s dive into the world of how your dog actually thinks and methods of training Wendy has successfully taken from the child development world. 

Listen to Episode #30 Now:

BIO:

Award-winning journalist Wendy Lyons Sunshine contributes to PsychologyToday.com and many other publications. She is author of Tender Paws: How Science-Based Parenting Can Transform Our Relationship with Dogs and co-author of The Connected Child: Bring Hope and Healing to Your Adoptive Family and Raising the Challenging Child: How to Minimize Meltdowns, Reduce Conflict, and Increase Cooperation.  

Transcript:

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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.

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Announcer: Let's talk pets.

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Jody Teiche: For many of us, our dogs are our furry children, right?

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Jody Teiche: We treat them as such.

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Jody Teiche: But what you may not realize is scientifically, they're more like human children than we may even know.

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Jody Teiche: Wendy Lyons Sunshine is an award-winning journalist and author of a new book called Tender Paws, How Science-Based Parenting Can Transform Our Relationships with Dogs.

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Jody Teiche: And it is a very, very interesting book.

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Jody Teiche: She's going to tell us more about this, but it was inspired by the struggles that she faced when she and her husband adopted a new puppy.

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Jody Teiche: And it was informed by her work with child development experts.

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Jody Teiche: So there's a lot of interesting information to unpack here.

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Jody Teiche: I want to learn more about this.

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Jody Teiche: I think that there's going to be information that could be very helpful for all of us with our dogs, no matter what the age.

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Jody Teiche: So I'm very excited to welcome Wendy to the podcast today to share her knowledge and expertise.

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Jody Teiche: But we're going to take a short break from our sponsor.

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Jody Teiche: You're listening to The Pet Health Coach on Pet Life Radio.

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Jody Teiche: I'm Jody L.

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Jody Teiche: Teiche, your host.

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Jody Teiche: When we come back, you'll meet Wendy.

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Jody Teiche: So grab that favorite healthy beverage, get cozy, and we'll be right back.

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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.

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Jody Teiche: Welcome back.

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Jody Teiche: You're listening to The Pet Health Coach on Pet Life Radio, and I'm Jody Teiche, your host.

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Jody Teiche: I have a really wonderful guest today.

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Jody Teiche: Her name is Wendy Lyons Sunshine, and she's the award-winning author, journalist, of a new book, Tender Paws, How Science-Based Parenting Can Transform Our Relationship with Dogs.

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Jody Teiche: It's interesting how she came to this and what it was inspired by.

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Jody Teiche: So without further ado, I want to introduce Wendy so we can unpack all these beautiful tidbits that can be helpful to us as pet parents.

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Jody Teiche: Welcome, Wendy.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Thanks so much, Jody.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I'm so excited to be here and speak with you.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Your interest in the holistic approach to dog welfare is very near and dear to my heart.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So I'd be happy to explain a little bit about how I came to write this book.

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Jody Teiche: Yeah, I think I want to sort of set the stage for our listeners.

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Jody Teiche: Can you tell them a little bit about your background and how you got into the world of child behavior, which is what informed what you ended up doing with the dog that you and your husband adopted, and then we got this book?

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Yes, thanks.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Yeah, I stumbled into it, as many of us do.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Some of the best journeys start inadvertently.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I was working as a reporter and freelance writer in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and a wonderful editor invited me to do a profile on some professors who were child development experts at Texas Christian University.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They were succeeding with children who had problems that seemed nobody could help them, but they had found ways and they were running programs, particularly something called the Hope Connection Camp.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They focused on adoptive families, children perhaps from overseas, with backgrounds of abuse or trauma, perhaps they had been through the child protective system.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And so, they really needed to bring their best game to help these children.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And when I wrote profile of them, I was so intrigued by their work and we clicked.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And by the end of the process, they had invited me to help them write a book.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And I became like an honorary graduate student.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: You know, they personally taught me so much, and I got to witness things firsthand.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And I was immersed in this world of wonder and possibility, which later bailed me out with my own puppy actually, surprisingly enough.

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Jody Teiche: Well, it's really, what an incredible opportunity to work alongside two people who are experts in a space that I think is affecting more and more parents of human children than ever, between on the various places on the spectrum, autism and just children who have trouble acclimating to life.

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Jody Teiche: So it was very interesting for me in your book to see the parallels that you found when you adopted this puppy named Hazel.

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Jody Teiche: If you were to kind of look at, well, first, tell us, tell us about the inspiration for Tender Paws.

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Jody Teiche: Let's do that next so that people can understand that it came from your own challenges with the puppy.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Sure.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Yeah, like everybody, we brought home this little creature with the best of intentions, and we found her through the shelter system.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: In fact, she wasn't in the shelter.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: She was a foster family in a home because she was really too young to be in the shelter.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It was risk to her and her litter mates.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: The litter had come from a stray dog that the mother ran away when they rescued the puppies, so we really had no clue what the implications of those circumstances were.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: We just said, oh, and it was a beautiful little circumstance.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: My husband and I went to visit the litter, and most of the litter ignored us, but one little creature tottered over, climbed into my husband's lap, curled up and went to sleep, and we thought, well, I guess she picked us, so here we are, and it started out promising, but what happened was once we sorted out her physical ailments, because there were a number, she turned out she had worms, she had anemia from the worms, so she had some challenges, and those had affected her growth and development, and once that system started, boy, we were in for a shock.

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Jody Teiche: What did you find?

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I was in for the shock because I like to call it like she was shot out of a cannon every morning.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It was like this explosion of energy and growth and discovery of the world, but what that means for a puppy can mean a lot of teeth on you, and a lot of claws, and a lot of chasing the cats, and a lot of chaos in the house, and honestly, I was at my wit's end.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Really, every night, late at night, my husband, the night owl, would snuggle with the puppy on the couch, but all the real raising and the teaching was falling to me.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So I was like, whoa, and I made some choices I wasn't proud of, and I thought, you know what, I'm not qualified to deal with this puppy.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I want the best for her, but this is above my pay grade.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So I proposed to my husband, let's bring her back.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I had this great idea.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: We're going to bring her back to the shelter because she's still young and she's, you know, maybe somebody else will take her who's more qualified because I'm not qualified.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Like, I don't know what I'm doing and this is not working out.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Well, you know, he kind of bonded with this puppy.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: He likes snuggling with her.

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Jody Teiche: He got all the fun stuff.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: He had the fun stuff.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And I was stuck because he was not going to green light that.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So I really, you know, I had a few moments of extreme panic and freak out.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And then I had this moment where I thought, you know, I'm like this parent of this toddler who's like got teeth, you know, it just is.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And I just helped write a book for parents who are struggling.

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Jody Teiche: You made that connection finally at a destination.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Yeah, right.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Really, because the puppy guides, the manuals that I had taken home, you know, they were good to the point, but they really they were not helping me get to the heart of why I was struggling with this dog.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And so going back to the parenting book really was an eye-opener.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And it's weird because I knew the book, I had helped write it, right?

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But I looked at it and I came to it with really fresh approach and started to ask myself some of the questions that the lead author, the wonderful late Karen Purvis, she would point out, you know, what is this behavior really saying?

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And what does this child really need?

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Because behavior is just an attempt to communicate and get your needs met.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And I got an inspiration from the book to try what I call a do-over.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's a redo is what she calls it.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And it was just a way to reset, to start the interaction fresh.

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Jody Teiche: Yeah.

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Jody Teiche: I mean, the heart core of this book is, is based on what's called the heart's principle, right?

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Jody Teiche: So, and it's wonderful.

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Jody Teiche: So tell my listeners a little bit about what that is that you revisited that sort of fueled your new approach with Hazel.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Right.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Well, in my book, I call it hearts.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I use the acronym hearts because it kind of boils down all the best practices that are from the Connected Child book and other parenting books and it's an easy way to help me remember it too.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: The first H is for heal the body and this is something that's so familiar to you, right?

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: For example, if you're not getting the right nutrition, or if there's some illness or you've got a toothache, it's going to affect your behavior.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So that's the bottom line.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: You start there.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So H is for heal the body.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: E is for engage and optimize the brain.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: This has so many dimensions.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's quite amazing because everything from movement can affect your brain, sensory interaction with the environment.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: For the dogs, it could be chewing and playing and digging.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But for children, it's also sensory and touch and movement.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So we have H, heal the body, E, engage and optimize the brain.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: A is appropriate environments with felt safety.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I think of the dog of your own, you were telling me about where had struggled in one environment, you moved to another environment, and now it's happy and thriving.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And this is true for children.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's true for dogs and puppies.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So we have H, E, A, R is for respectful and secure relationships because we need other people, we need other creatures, dogs need social interaction, children need help from caring adults.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: All those things build trust.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They also set up our nervous system for very optimal outcomes, and that's so vital.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So that R is respectful and secure relationships.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Then we have T, which is teach sensitively and positively.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And so you could think of it for dog world, it's training sensitively and positively.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: You're helping them learn in a way that's appropriate to the individual.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's very custom.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And positive reinforcement, we're making it rewarding and enjoyable.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And that works for kids and it works for dogs.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And finally, the S is support the individual, because each individual has their own quirks and needs.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's whether they're, for example, where they are in their developmental stages.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Puppy needs something different than an older dog, but also they have different aptitudes.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: You're also talking about your terrier with that terrier energy and gotta run and chase and find and dig and get the little critters.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And that's different, for example, than certain other dogs, like guard dogs, who are more happy to just observe and just stay tranquil until the time comes for action.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So we want to support the individual.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Just like children, they may have some special needs of certain kinds.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: As long as we are approaching all these things with all our hearts, right?

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: We can give the best outcomes.

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Jody Teiche: Absolutely.

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Jody Teiche: And it's such a comprehensive, heart-based sort of protocol or series of principles that you work from.

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Jody Teiche: I want to unpack it a little bit.

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Jody Teiche: As a health coach for people and pets, I coach multidimensionally.

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Jody Teiche: And so it's body, mind, spirit, soul, because it's all connected.

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Jody Teiche: If you go to, if you dial down to biology, the vagus nerve connecting the brain and the gut, it's a hotline.

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Jody Teiche: They talk all day long.

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Jody Teiche: And 80% of that serotonin and 80% of the immune system, it all is happening in your gut.

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Jody Teiche: But yet, it affects how you feel.

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Jody Teiche: So when I coach, yes, nutrition is the foundation of the house, and nutrition can affect whether it's a person or a pup.

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Jody Teiche: It can affect aggression, anxiety, and how they engage in the world.

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Jody Teiche: But the concept of bio-individuality, which comes out in your heart's principles, is so critical.

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Jody Teiche: Different stages of life, absolutely.

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Jody Teiche: Different aptitudes, absolutely.

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Jody Teiche: Different breeds or kinds of breeds within them, that has bearing, I found.

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Jody Teiche: As well as energetically, you know, the environment that they live in, the environment that they were born in, or maybe they lived in during that period of time when it was so important to socialize them, that, you know, six to 14 weeks or...

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Jody Teiche: So there's so many facets.

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Jody Teiche: And I would love for you to speak on the bio-individuality component of this.

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Jody Teiche: Because I think that the respectfulness, which, you know, I wanted to talk with you about, too, there's a place within bio-individuality for that, too.

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Jody Teiche: Respecting their individuality, that they are not just a dog or a cookie cutter dog behavior.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Well, one of the reasons we love our dogs so much is because of their individual personalities.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Isn't it?

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: That's part of their charm.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And so we can appreciate that and we can honor that through some of the choices we make.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But it's very interesting, because you touched on this a little, is that even the prenatal experience of an animal and a child can affect what happens and what they're set up for for life.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: For example, for children whose mother is highly stressed during pregnancy, that can make it harder for them to regulate their emotions and their reactions to the world.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And for dogs, there are toxics.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I mean, it's the same for children too.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They could be exposed to some chemical in the environment that unfortunately trips the wire.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They call it epigenetics, but it has implications for the way their genes are expressed and what that means.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I mean, really, it's quite extraordinary.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So you start with that, and that's where you become the individual with your genetics and that environment interaction.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And then you have learning as you go through your life and your environment and the nurturing you receive and all of that and your natural aptitudes and talents because just like children have talents, dogs have talents.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Sometimes they're like superheroes to me.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Like my dog has a super power of recognizing a raccoon no matter where he is in the neighborhood.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's like, really?

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Thank you very much.

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Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Okay, we got it.

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Jody Teiche: Yeah, I totally hear you.

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Jody Teiche: We really need to be detectives for our animals, for our pets, because observing like a detective might, digging deeper.

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Jody Teiche: I was listening to an expert on autism in Children's Speak this morning, and her talk was focused a lot on heavy metals.

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Jody Teiche: And you mentioned about toxicity in the environment.

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Jody Teiche: My God, how you can't avoid it.

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Jody Teiche: None of us can.

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Jody Teiche: And our dogs have four on the floor, right?

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Jody Teiche: So they're directly into their bloodstreams.

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Jody Teiche: So, yeah, there's so much that's involved on a bio-individual level that I think affects how they behave, how they think, how they respond to their environment, and how trainable they can be.

00:18:04.460 --> 00:18:10.140
Jody Teiche: And knowing to look, you know, sort of beneath the surface, I think is critical.

00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:26.820
Jody Teiche: I thought it was really interesting in your book that you said there was a statistic that 80 percent, vets said 80 percent, or someone said 80 percent of aggression, was it, could be linked to a pain, pain of some kind?

00:18:26.820 --> 00:18:27.340
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Right.

00:18:27.340 --> 00:18:28.300
Jody Teiche: Correct me if I'm wrong.

00:18:28.300 --> 00:18:28.780
Jody Teiche: Yeah.

00:18:28.780 --> 00:18:36.120
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It was between 30 and up to 80 percent of cases that were referred to behavioral veterinarians.

00:18:36.120 --> 00:18:50.520
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And they, you know, traced back on their case studies and found that this enormous majority of cases, the dog had some level of pain that once that was resolved, there was tremendous improvement in the behavior.

00:18:50.520 --> 00:18:55.140
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Understandably, we're all cranky if we don't feel well, but they can't tell us.

00:18:55.140 --> 00:18:57.720
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They can't say, oh, you know, I pulled a muscle in my back.

00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:03.740
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Would you please quit pushing on that spot or, you know, I'm getting tired, my neck from looking up at you when I'm healing.

00:19:03.740 --> 00:19:04.880
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Can we do something different?

00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:05.460
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Please.

00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:06.460
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They can't say that.

00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:10.060
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They just kind of show from their discomfort in different ways.

00:19:10.060 --> 00:19:12.500
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And that bio-individuality is so much.

00:19:12.600 --> 00:19:28.660
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I was thinking about senses and the sense of smell is so strong in dogs that some things that we think are pleasing to the human nose, like certain fragrances or room fresheners and all that can, you know, that they can react differently to that too.

00:19:28.660 --> 00:19:30.880
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's not one size fits all.

00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:37.160
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And some of them, it's hard for them to, I guess, tolerate it because we don't really realize it's bothering them.

00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:38.960
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: That's that's so tricky.

00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:39.540
Jody Teiche: Exactly.

00:19:40.060 --> 00:19:44.180
Jody Teiche: This leads beautifully into a story you share in the book.

00:19:44.180 --> 00:19:50.200
Jody Teiche: Very well known, you know, a lot of you listening will probably recognize her name.

00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:55.900
Jody Teiche: Dog trainer, holistic dog trainer, Victoria Stilwell, shared a story about a dog named Marley.

00:19:55.900 --> 00:19:58.020
Jody Teiche: Would you share that with with us?

00:19:58.020 --> 00:19:58.420
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Sure.

00:19:58.420 --> 00:20:02.040
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Yeah, Victoria Stilwell just shared this wonderful story.

00:20:02.040 --> 00:20:10.280
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: She was called in on a case with a little cockapoo, I believe it was, who was humping like crazy, you should excuse me.

00:20:10.280 --> 00:20:15.620
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But this dog, that's what the facts were, and that's what she was called in for.

00:20:15.620 --> 00:20:23.180
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And this little dog had a guardian who was very caring and tried to do the very best for this dog.

00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:31.960
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So she would take Marley out to the playground, to the dog park every morning, and try to throw the frisbee over and over.

00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:35.020
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And then she would take it home to a busy household.

00:20:35.320 --> 00:20:39.140
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And, you know, have it interact with the people.

00:20:39.140 --> 00:20:42.320
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But Marley just was kept humping her leg.

00:20:42.320 --> 00:20:44.400
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: No matter what she did, she would take it to the park.

00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:45.720
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: He was humping at home.

00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:47.000
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: He was humping her leg.

00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:52.320
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And Victoria came in and started to look closely at what was really going on here.

00:20:52.320 --> 00:20:59.940
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And a conventional trainer might say, okay, we got to stop this right away and maybe get tough with that humping.

00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:03.540
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: A positive trainer might say, well, what can we have the dog do instead of humping?

00:21:03.860 --> 00:21:11.740
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But Victoria wanted to look deeper than both of those and say, well, what is the dog trying to express and what's really going on here?

00:21:11.740 --> 00:21:16.600
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And she came away believing that Marlee was trying to express that he just wasn't happy.

00:21:16.600 --> 00:21:24.260
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: He was uncomfortable and he really didn't want to be there chasing that frisbee that was not a place where he felt comfortable.

00:21:24.260 --> 00:21:26.540
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And this is how he was trying to express it.

00:21:26.580 --> 00:21:37.780
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And not only that, she noticed by careful, you know, becoming a detective, by careful looking, she noticed Marlee kept looking over his shoulder and it seemed like he was looking at his back portion of his body.

00:21:37.780 --> 00:21:41.700
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And she said to the guardian, I really suggest you take him to the veterinarian.

00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:44.000
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: There might be something going on with his hips in the back.

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:44.960
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: He's looking.

00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.180
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Well, it turned out he had hip dysplasia.

00:21:47.180 --> 00:21:51.660
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So all that running and chasing was actually extremely painful for him.

00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:53.580
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And he was giving a cry for help.

00:21:53.660 --> 00:22:00.000
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And as soon as she, you know, Victoria suggested that Marley's guardian changed their whole routine.

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.900
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: None of this frisbee stuff.

00:22:01.900 --> 00:22:08.820
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Instead, a nice, long, relaxed, sniffy walk in nature on a lead where Marley could set the pace.

00:22:08.820 --> 00:22:14.760
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And the humping just went away of its own very quickly once all that was resolved.

00:22:14.760 --> 00:22:29.260
Jody Teiche: That is such a powerful story because they're constantly communicating with us in so many ways if we know what to look for and we pay attention, right?

00:22:29.260 --> 00:22:29.980
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Exactly.

00:22:30.500 --> 00:22:32.480
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: That's the biggest challenge for us humans.

00:22:33.040 --> 00:22:35.940
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: We don't always get what they're trying to say.

00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:53.980
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And that's a wonderful gift we can give our dogs is to learn a little bit more about what dog body language is and just even pay attention, a little mindfulness and practice that every day, just a few minutes a day, get in the habit and you'll realize how much the dog is communicating to you.

00:22:54.100 --> 00:22:56.080
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's quite marvelous, really.

00:22:56.080 --> 00:22:57.320
Jody Teiche: It really is.

00:22:57.320 --> 00:22:58.300
Jody Teiche: It really is.

00:22:58.300 --> 00:23:02.040
Jody Teiche: We are going to take a short break from our sponsor.

00:23:02.040 --> 00:23:07.060
Jody Teiche: But when we come back, we are going to talk about different parenting styles.

00:23:07.060 --> 00:23:11.820
Jody Teiche: There are different styles, specific styles, which one are you?

00:23:11.820 --> 00:23:17.020
Jody Teiche: So don't go away, refresh that beverage, get comfortable and we will be right back.

00:23:18.860 --> 00:23:24.680
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00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:29.900
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00:23:29.900 --> 00:23:33.100
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00:23:33.100 --> 00:23:34.960
Announcer: Let's talk pets.

00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.340
Announcer: Live and on demand only from Pet Life Radio.

00:23:57.120 --> 00:23:57.700
Jody Teiche: Welcome back.

00:23:57.700 --> 00:24:02.800
Jody Teiche: You're listening to the Pet Health Coach on Pet Life Radio, and I'm Jody Teich, your host.

00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:15.160
Jody Teiche: We're here today with Wendy Lyons Sunshine, the award-winning journalist and author of a new book called Tender Paws, How Science-Based Parenting Can Transform Our Relationships with Dogs.

00:24:15.580 --> 00:24:22.740
Jody Teiche: We're unpacking some really wonderful, powerful, helpful information for us pet parents.

00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:29.040
Jody Teiche: So one thing that I want to talk with Wendy about is parenting styles.

00:24:29.040 --> 00:24:36.500
Jody Teiche: In the book, there are specific ones, and when you read the book, you can identify which one might be you.

00:24:36.500 --> 00:24:38.620
Jody Teiche: You want to talk about that a little bit, Wendy?

00:24:38.620 --> 00:24:40.580
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Sure, Jody, I'd be happy to.

00:24:40.580 --> 00:24:55.200
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Yeah, scientists use this, they like to categorize parenting styles into four basic categories, and it's super helpful way to think about some of the choices that we make, and even to think back the way we were parented, right?

00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:59.120
Jody Teiche: Which makes a huge difference, as you can share from the book too.

00:24:59.120 --> 00:24:59.580
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Right.

00:24:59.580 --> 00:25:01.280
Jody Teiche: The dog trainers, yeah.

00:25:01.280 --> 00:25:14.320
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Exactly, and that philosophy and that approach influences choices we make with our children, with our dogs, and these four styles have varying levels of what's called demandingness.

00:25:14.320 --> 00:25:26.440
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: In other words, how much I insist on you behave a certain way versus how much I'm going to cater to you and what you want and your particular choices and preferences.

00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:28.760
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So various combinations give us different styles.

00:25:28.760 --> 00:25:41.320
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So we have on one end of the spectrum, we have what would be basically neglectful because they're not really paying attention to your needs, they're just checked out and there's not much involvement.

00:25:41.320 --> 00:25:53.020
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Sometimes there are legitimate reasons, maybe the parents are really busy and working a lot, but the fact is they still aren't really interacting so much and supporting the little one so much.

00:25:53.020 --> 00:26:02.320
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Then you'll have a permissive style and many of us have, we think of my grandmother who always had the treat I wanted whenever I visited.

00:26:02.380 --> 00:26:03.740
Jody Teiche: Mine too.

00:26:04.820 --> 00:26:06.860
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So that's an indulgent style.

00:26:06.860 --> 00:26:10.540
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: There aren't so many guidelines, but there's pretty much whatever you want.

00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:26.040
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's not neglectful in the physical sense usually, but it lacks a certain amount of structure and perhaps the child doesn't get the practice they might need in conforming to expectations in certain situations because they always get their own way.

00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:28.940
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: That permissive style could be pretty indulgent.

00:26:28.940 --> 00:26:46.040
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Now, if you want to go to the far end on the other side, you have what would be called authoritarian, which just like it sounds, it's the parent that's like, okay, my way or the highway, you do things my way, it's because I said so and that's it.

00:26:47.100 --> 00:26:55.240
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They set the tone and they're really not focusing so much on what feedback they're getting from the little one, whether it's a child or a dog.

00:26:55.240 --> 00:27:00.140
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's more about what the parent wants and expects and everything else is secondary.

00:27:00.540 --> 00:27:17.500
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So that's another extreme where you get the best long-term outcomes is where you combine the two into what's called authoritative and I like to call it therapeutic parenting because authoritative and authoritarian can get kind of similar sounding.

00:27:17.500 --> 00:27:23.520
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But this therapeutic approach, this authoritative approach, it combines the best of both.

00:27:23.520 --> 00:27:41.480
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It combines giving as much as you can in a suitable, appropriate way, but also setting those expectations and limits so that the little one actually helps them feel safe because they know what is expected in a situation.

00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:53.060
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It also keeps them physically safe sometimes because they can't go running around willy-nilly, and yet it also nourishes them in an emotional and physical and sensory way.

00:27:53.720 --> 00:28:00.580
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So you're combining the very best of both in that authoritative or therapeutic approach.

00:28:00.580 --> 00:28:07.920
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And we can each think back probably to different experiences we may have had with these different styles, whether in our own family or what we've seen.

00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:12.960
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But it's food for thought as to how we approach situations.

00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:13.700
Jody Teiche: Absolutely.

00:28:13.700 --> 00:28:19.700
Jody Teiche: And I'm wondering with those listening, do you recognize aspects of maybe a couple of them in you?

00:28:20.040 --> 00:28:40.480
Jody Teiche: Because I would imagine that there are many people who depending on the day, depending on the circumstance, different emotions, things come up, and maybe there are sort of crossovers of different styles that show up in, you know, this animal's life and experience.

00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:41.960
Jody Teiche: Do you find that too, Wendy?

00:28:42.020 --> 00:28:43.940
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Absolutely, absolutely.

00:28:43.940 --> 00:28:48.840
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But the good news is, we don't have to be a thousand percent perfect all the time.

00:28:48.840 --> 00:28:53.360
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: There is wiggle room and there's a little bit of forgiveness for all of us.

00:28:53.360 --> 00:29:00.340
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But we want to trend toward what we prefer, what we feel is most beneficial as much as we can.

00:29:00.340 --> 00:29:03.880
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And we will course correct if we need to.

00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:07.480
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's just part of the journey of parenting.

00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:08.620
Jody Teiche: Yes, exactly.

00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:19.300
Jody Teiche: One aspect of that kind of supportive parenting is this concept of respecting our pets.

00:29:19.300 --> 00:29:27.840
Jody Teiche: Not demanding respect, which there are certain methods of training that have been around a very long time that do that.

00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:42.500
Jody Teiche: You overpower the animal, you're the leader, but really respecting our pets for the individuals with their own needs, thoughts, and feelings that they are.

00:29:42.500 --> 00:29:49.320
Jody Teiche: And then what we encourage back, so these loving boundaries with respect.

00:29:49.320 --> 00:29:51.320
Jody Teiche: Can you talk a little bit about that?

00:29:51.320 --> 00:29:52.140
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Sure.

00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:56.580
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: In a way, it boils down to a bit of the golden rule, right?

00:29:56.580 --> 00:30:00.020
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Do unto others as you want them to do unto you.

00:30:00.020 --> 00:30:06.980
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And so, for example, I don't want to be dragged around by the neck, so I don't really want to drag my dog around by the neck.

00:30:06.980 --> 00:30:12.780
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I don't want somebody grabbing food off my plate, so I try not to grab food off of my dog's plate.

00:30:12.780 --> 00:30:22.200
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And even comes to things like being touched and hugged, especially if you come out of a trauma situation or a rescue situation.

00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.140
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: We think of children who have been abused or traumatized.

00:30:26.140 --> 00:30:28.520
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: You want to really respect their personal space.

00:30:28.520 --> 00:30:38.800
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: You want consent for touch, but also the therapist often will use one hand to touch, so that they don't overpower them and make them feel trapped for the child.

00:30:38.800 --> 00:30:41.200
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And we can do the same for a dog, for example.

00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:47.000
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: We can use one hand and stroke kindly with one hand, but the dog knows he can get away.

00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:51.820
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: We're not backing them in the corner where maybe this is overwhelming to them.

00:30:51.820 --> 00:30:57.720
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So respecting personal space and respecting consent as much as possible.

00:30:57.820 --> 00:31:05.740
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I know with a veterinarian, you sometimes have to say, sorry, you're going to have to put up with this a little bit right now.

00:31:05.740 --> 00:31:08.940
Jody Teiche: I just had to do that yesterday with my poor Chihuahua.

00:31:08.940 --> 00:31:10.800
Jody Teiche: So yes, we do sometimes.

00:31:10.800 --> 00:31:12.300
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's like us going to the dentist, right?

00:31:12.300 --> 00:31:14.100
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: We're not too cheap.

00:31:14.100 --> 00:31:15.480
Jody Teiche: Yes, exactly.

00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:16.960
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But we can be respectful.

00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:26.560
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And if we just think of it like a family member or somebody we really respect and admire and we want to invite them into our home, we wouldn't.

00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.540
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: We would treat them with deference and care.

00:31:30.540 --> 00:31:33.980
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And we can do the same for the animals in our care.

00:31:33.980 --> 00:31:34.440
Jody Teiche: Yeah.

00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:37.820
Jody Teiche: I think the idea of personal space is really an important one.

00:31:37.820 --> 00:31:45.380
Jody Teiche: I like to share with my pet parents who I coach to let the dog lead.

00:31:45.380 --> 00:31:52.140
Jody Teiche: And this is true for your own animals as well as a new dog that you may meet.

00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:52.960
Jody Teiche: Let them lead.

00:31:53.380 --> 00:31:58.660
Jody Teiche: If they want your attention, they will show you that they want your attention.

00:31:58.660 --> 00:32:09.260
Jody Teiche: They'll come up next to you and they'll, you know, one step short of actually talking to you, ask to be pet or come sit in your lap or cuddle up next to you.

00:32:09.260 --> 00:32:15.360
Jody Teiche: If they don't want to be touched, then let them have their space.

00:32:15.360 --> 00:32:23.740
Jody Teiche: And, you know, that is to me an important part of respect, especially if you're meeting an animal for the first time.

00:32:24.300 --> 00:32:31.860
Jody Teiche: You know, there are some people who have great intentions, but they go right in there, you know, and then sometimes they get bitten, right?

00:32:31.860 --> 00:32:33.880
Jody Teiche: Or they traumatize the animal.

00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:49.880
Jody Teiche: But I think it also has a place with our own animals, too, because just like us, there are days when we're like, happy, happy, joy, joy, and we're out there and we want to, you know, play and have fun and we feel very affectionate.

00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:56.820
Jody Teiche: And there are days when we really want our space, you know, we, you know, don't necessarily want to be cuddled in pet.

00:32:56.820 --> 00:32:58.520
Jody Teiche: If I was a dog.

00:32:58.520 --> 00:33:04.480
Jody Teiche: So, you know, there's, I think that kind of letting them lead is also something.

00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:07.460
Jody Teiche: Do you find that as well with your experience?

00:33:07.460 --> 00:33:09.380
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Absolutely, absolutely.

00:33:09.380 --> 00:33:13.200
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And if you can let them come to you, that's ideal.

00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:14.680
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They can feel, they'll speak to you.

00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:17.400
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Like you say, sometimes they'll lean up against you.

00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:21.380
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Sometimes they'll just put their face right on your, you know, on your leg.

00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:30.920
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: But it's interesting to note, we can also become attentive to little signs like, are they turning their head away when you approach?

00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:32.660
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Are they turning their head away?

00:33:32.660 --> 00:33:36.920
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And that's a sign that they would, they're trying to politely decline.

00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:41.720
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's like at a party where somebody's coming over and you go, oh dear, I don't know what to say to them.

00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:44.000
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I'm going to just go check my phone.

00:33:44.020 --> 00:33:45.680
Jody Teiche: Yeah, exactly.

00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:52.480
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And suddenly, if the dog is suddenly interested elsewhere, when you're approaching, they're trying to be polite.

00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.240
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They're trying to say, thank you, but not now.

00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:56.940
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: This is not right for me.

00:33:56.940 --> 00:33:58.120
Jody Teiche: Exactly.

00:33:58.120 --> 00:34:02.200
Jody Teiche: The last thing that I want to talk to you about, I thought was very interesting.

00:34:03.520 --> 00:34:17.720
Jody Teiche: The idea about in play, the benefits of the dog playing with a doll and the sort of bridge between what it does for children, young children, and what it does for dogs.

00:34:17.720 --> 00:34:21.320
Jody Teiche: Can you get into that a little bit, the scientific benefits found?

00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:21.680
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Sure.

00:34:21.680 --> 00:34:24.540
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Well, there are actually many different types of play.

00:34:24.540 --> 00:34:30.200
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: There's something called free play, where the child gets to direct the play, and that's super helpful.

00:34:30.200 --> 00:34:34.640
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: There's studies about helping self-regulation and brain development.

00:34:34.640 --> 00:34:53.280
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: You have relational play between parent and child, or two people, and the doll play is interesting, because they've done studies that show that the same part of the brain is activated with doll play, like for children, as with the relational play with another child.

00:34:53.280 --> 00:35:02.960
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: So there's a social aspect, a social benefit, but for dogs especially, too, the doll has some wonderful additional benefits.

00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:16.520
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: If you happen to have a puppy who's full of that puppy energy and going haywire, and there's no other dog that is around or no other dog who wants to play with them, because it's an older dog saying, I've had enough, can you please leave me be?

00:35:16.520 --> 00:35:25.760
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: That doll, and I call it a doll, but it could be a real life-size stuffed dog doll standing, for example.

00:35:26.700 --> 00:35:29.620
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: You put them together and it's so interesting.

00:35:29.620 --> 00:35:33.400
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It doesn't work for every dog, but so many dogs really love it.

00:35:33.600 --> 00:35:41.020
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They'll sniff the rump, they'll look around, and then they'll start to tackle it and bite on it and wrestle with it.

00:35:41.020 --> 00:35:46.540
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They can get a lot of that juice out in a safe, appropriate manner.

00:35:47.060 --> 00:35:51.220
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: You don't have to worry that it's going to teach them that they should be attacking everything.

00:35:51.220 --> 00:35:53.720
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: They know the difference.

00:35:53.720 --> 00:35:55.460
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: The dog actually gets it.

00:35:55.600 --> 00:36:01.020
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Sometimes you'll find that the dog will learn to go for that doll himself.

00:36:01.020 --> 00:36:03.260
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: You don't always have to direct them there.

00:36:03.260 --> 00:36:05.560
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: He will start to realize, oh, this is an outlet for me.

00:36:05.720 --> 00:36:06.240
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I'm ready.

00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:09.720
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: I want to play, so let me go get my stuff doll.

00:36:09.720 --> 00:36:14.160
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And it is turned around a number of situations.

00:36:14.160 --> 00:36:16.840
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's delightful, and it's fun for them.

00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:17.700
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It's just fun.

00:36:17.700 --> 00:36:21.780
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It gives that developmental benefit, just like for kids.

00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:23.120
Jody Teiche: Yes, absolutely.

00:36:23.120 --> 00:36:27.120
Jody Teiche: And what fun for the dog, a wrestle that you always win.

00:36:28.680 --> 00:36:29.200
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: That's right.

00:36:29.200 --> 00:36:30.500
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: And never says no.

00:36:30.500 --> 00:36:32.280
Jody Teiche: Never says no, exactly.

00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:33.720
Jody Teiche: Wendy, where can people find you?

00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:45.000
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Yes, my website is wendysunshine.com, and my book is Tender Paws, and that's available from all the retailers and on Audible as well.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:45.580
Jody Teiche: Yes.

00:36:45.580 --> 00:37:08.360
Jody Teiche: And for those of you listening who have young children or have young grandchildren, the two books that Wendy wrote with these expert collaborators, one is a classic award-winning book called The Connected Child, and the other is called Raising the Challenging Child.

00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:10.320
Jody Teiche: So you can seek those out.

00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:12.680
Jody Teiche: They can get that through your website as well, Wendy?

00:37:12.680 --> 00:37:16.620
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Well, they're listed there too, and it'll connect them over, so certainly, yes.

00:37:16.620 --> 00:37:17.360
Jody Teiche: Perfect.

00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:25.880
Jody Teiche: So again, Wendy's book, Tender Paws, How Science-Based Parenting Can Transform Our Relationship with Dogs.

00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:28.740
Jody Teiche: Thank you so much for being with me today, Wendy.

00:37:28.740 --> 00:37:30.020
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: Thank you so much, Jody.

00:37:30.020 --> 00:37:31.240
Wendy Lyons Sunshine: It was a delight talking with you.

00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:34.880
Jody Teiche: Oh, thanks, and thank you all for listening.

00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:45.340
Jody Teiche: As a certified health coach for people and pets, my mission is to share holistic healing guidance for the whole family to create vibrant good health.

00:37:45.340 --> 00:37:55.800
Jody Teiche: So tune in next time for information, expert interviews, and tips to give the animals we love the longest and most vibrant life we can.

00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:56.560
Jody Teiche: I'm Jody L.

00:37:56.560 --> 00:37:59.640
Jody Teiche: Teiche, and this is The Pet Health Coach.

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