Abandoned
Abandoned by Katherine Carver is a book like no other, featuring stunning photographs that capture the forgotten dogs in shelters. Each photo tells a heartfelt story of a dog's journey, from the days spent waiting for a forever home to the joy of being chosen—and, in some heartbreaking cases, being returned. Through these powerful images, the dogs' hope, resilience, and unwavering spirit shine, often with a wagging tail. It’s their eyes that will truly win you over. Katherine Carver dedicated years to this mission, creating a collection of stories and photographs that will deeply move you—as they should. A portion of the author's royalties will be donated to SPCA International - dog rescue and animal welfare causes, making this a truly beautiful and impactful book.
Listen to Episode #76 Now:
BIO:
Katherine Carver was born in Ann Arbor, Michigan in 1978. She was introduced to photography during high school. In 2011, she found herself behind a camera lens creating photographs of her first dog, a rescue Shetland Sheepdog named Biscuit, who inspired Carver’s great passion, interest, curiosity, and the study of dogs in her work.
Abandoned: Chronicling the Journeys of Once-Forsaken Dogs is Carver’s debut book, released on October 1, 2024. ABANDONED has been featured in the Los Angeles Times, the Baltimore Sun, L'Oeil de la Photographie (The Eye of Photography Magazine), Psychology Today, Modern Dog Magazine, and AARP The Magazine. ABANDONED has also the subject of several podcasts and radio interviews, including NPR.
Carver's photographs have been published in international publications such as, L’Oeil de la Photographie, Four&Sons, and My Modern Met. Carver holds a Juris Doctor, with Honor, from the University of Maryland Francis King Carey School of Law. She currently lives in the Washington, D.C. area with her husband, daughter, and rescue Shetland Sheepdog, Victory. To learn more, visit: www.katherinecarver.com and www.biscuitsspace.com.
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is PetLife Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Cheryl Kaye: Hi everybody, Cheryl from Unleashed.
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Cheryl Kaye: And today, I am very glad to have Katherine Carver with us.
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Cheryl Kaye: And she wrote a gorgeous book, and we'll discuss that.
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Cheryl Kaye: Welcome, Katherine.
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Cheryl Kaye: I'm glad that I have you on the show.
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Cheryl Kaye: This is gonna be a very interesting show.
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Katherine Carver: Well, thank you so much for having me, and I'm happy to be here.
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Cheryl Kaye: So before we get into the book and all of your, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
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Katherine Carver: Well, the main reason I'm here is because of my book, Abandoned, Chronicling the Journeys of Once-Forsaken Dogs.
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Katherine Carver: I'm actually originally trained as an attorney, so I work full-time, and I've worked on this project for over a decade, which was inspired by my very first rescue dog, who changed my life and brought me back to photography.
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Katherine Carver: And I just wanted to learn more about what was happening to these abandoned dogs.
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Katherine Carver: So my first dog, Biscuit, set me on this path, and I've become very interested in the dog overpopulation crisis.
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Cheryl Kaye: Oh yeah, I have a rescue.
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Cheryl Kaye: I never went to a shelter before when I got my Tilly McGee.
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Cheryl Kaye: And heartbreaking.
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Cheryl Kaye: And it's just, for every dog in a shelter, it's a human's fault.
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Cheryl Kaye: For every dog that needs to be put down, you know, it's a human's fault.
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Cheryl Kaye: They have to stop buying and breeding dogs.
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Cheryl Kaye: The oodle doodles, and they're mixed with this and that.
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Cheryl Kaye: You know, it's like going to the supermarket.
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Cheryl Kaye: If there's 50 oranges on the shelf, that's the 50 oranges you pick from.
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Cheryl Kaye: And there is something very special about a rescue dog, because they know they're rescued.
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Cheryl Kaye: Now, when you got your dog, Victory, was that his name when you got him?
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Katherine Carver: No, the dog that I shared with you that I presently have, her name is Victory.
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Katherine Carver: She's our second rescue dog.
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Katherine Carver: She's a Shetland sheep dog.
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Katherine Carver: But the first dog that I had, Biscuit, who is pictured at the front of my book, whom the book is dedicated to, that was our very first rescue dog.
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Katherine Carver: He was a tri-color.
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Katherine Carver: Shelty found wandering the back roads in North Carolina and was brought to a rescue organization in Maryland.
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Katherine Carver: And that's how we were able to meet him and adopt him.
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Cheryl Kaye: So how did you get the name Victory?
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Katherine Carver: She came at the rescue.
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Katherine Carver: She came from a rescue in Michigan and she had the name and she knew it.
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Katherine Carver: And we kept it just like we did it with Biscuit.
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Katherine Carver: He was given the name at the rescue and we kept it.
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Cheryl Kaye: How old was she when you got her?
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Katherine Carver: Victory, we think, was approximately two.
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Katherine Carver: We're guessing based on at the time, the vet, you know, they check her out.
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Cheryl Kaye: Yeah, I think they go by the teeth or something.
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Katherine Carver: Yeah, yeah, and in nine days, actually, we'll have her 11 years now.
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Cheryl Kaye: That's really amazing.
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Katherine Carver: Yeah.
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Cheryl Kaye: Unfortunately, dogs aren't really living that long with all this, all these, you know, illnesses around.
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Cheryl Kaye: You know, I used to have, when I was a kid, my dogs were like 19 and 15 and my cats were like 20 or 18 and stuff, but when I got Tilly, they said they got her off the street.
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Cheryl Kaye: But when I did Freedom of Information, they had found her in a cage.
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Cheryl Kaye: They named her Phoebe.
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Cheryl Kaye: You know, they come up with all these cutesy names because they think that'll help.
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Cheryl Kaye: And I guess sometimes it does.
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Cheryl Kaye: But I didn't want a Phoebe.
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Cheryl Kaye: I wanted a Tilly.
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Cheryl Kaye: And I think Tilly had to have a middle name.
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Cheryl Kaye: So I named it Tilly McGee.
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Cheryl Kaye: I've had her two years, just two years.
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Cheryl Kaye: She just celebrated her third birthday and I got her at 11.
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Cheryl Kaye: But I have to tell you, you took all of these photos in this book, correct?
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Katherine Carver: Yes, I did.
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Katherine Carver: They're all my photos and words.
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Katherine Carver: Yes.
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Cheryl Kaye: And I have to tell our listeners, it's all black and white.
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Cheryl Kaye: It is so gripping.
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Cheryl Kaye: Their faces, I have come to think that the look of a dog's ears and their eyes tells everything.
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Cheryl Kaye: That's really their expression.
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Cheryl Kaye: You know, the way their ears move, the way their eyes do.
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Cheryl Kaye: I know when I talk to my dog, she's got brown eyes and, you know, I could tell she's listening to me because her eyes move back and forth, you know.
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Cheryl Kaye: And here I am, I'm talking to my dog.
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Cheryl Kaye: But I believe that they understand.
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Katherine Carver: Yes, I agree.
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Cheryl Kaye: Now, the dogs that they were different shelters, right, that you went to?
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Katherine Carver: Yes, there was one primary shelter and then about four rescue organizations.
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Katherine Carver: And I live in the Mid-Atlantic in Maryland.
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Katherine Carver: So I worked with these organizations in order to photograph the dogs.
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Katherine Carver: Also, they were integral in helping me get adopter information so I could photograph the dogs about a year afterwards.
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Katherine Carver: So in most cases, about a year separates the photographs.
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Katherine Carver: And at the time I photographed the dogs, initially while they resided at a shelter rescue organization, I provided them immediately with a color image that does not appear in the book to help get that dog adopted.
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Cheryl Kaye: And it worked.
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Cheryl Kaye: I mean, some dogs stay in a shelter longer than we hope.
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Cheryl Kaye: And all of the dogs, except for a few, we don't have to go into that because that's heartbreaking.
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Cheryl Kaye: And some dogs are returned.
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Cheryl Kaye: I just don't understand.
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Cheryl Kaye: That's a commitment once you get a dog.
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Cheryl Kaye: I mean, I take my dog to the dog park and there's one family.
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Cheryl Kaye: Sadly, he has to rehome his dog because he now has a child, and the child has allergies.
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Cheryl Kaye: That you can understand, and hopefully, they'll find a good family.
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Cheryl Kaye: But once you adopt an animal, the reasons we can't afford the vet care, we can't afford food, and I cook for my dog.
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Cheryl Kaye: One woman on one of my links, because I deal with a lot of rescues, and I have a lot of shelters that I'm hooked up with, people would go through the trash to feed their dog if they could afford it.
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Cheryl Kaye: And there are organizations, like especially near where you live in Virginia, there are organizations for seniors, if they cannot afford to feed their dog, there's a number they could call, and they will help them.
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Cheryl Kaye: And there's some other organizations where if an elderly person, a senior, like needs to have surgery or something, they have places that could help foster the dog.
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Cheryl Kaye: So there are communities, if people look into it, that could help people.
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Cheryl Kaye: So we keep the dogs because a lot of this with COVID, a lot of people adopted dogs because they were lonely.
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Cheryl Kaye: And then COVID is over or you go back to work, and now you've got this dog.
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Cheryl Kaye: And there was even one gal that I had on my show, because some people couldn't get out, she was able to provide them with a link in their house on their phone or their TV where they could see dogs or see cats for comfort.
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Cheryl Kaye: So they weren't alone, alone.
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Cheryl Kaye: But I think the biggest thing with the rescues is people have to stop buying dogs, and they have to fix their dogs.
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Cheryl Kaye: I mean, when I go to the park, there are some, you know, male dogs, they're still intact.
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Cheryl Kaye: And it's mostly male owners.
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Cheryl Kaye: And if you say, when are you going to fix them?
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Cheryl Kaye: Oh, I'm not, I'm going to breed them.
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Cheryl Kaye: We don't need any more dogs, because the reality is, there's too many that are looking for homes that if there weren't as many, maybe they would have a good chance.
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Cheryl Kaye: The shelters that you dealt with, how many beds did they have?
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Cheryl Kaye: Was it a big shelter?
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Katherine Carver: It was, and just to give you context, I thought this was a decade long project.
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Katherine Carver: So I did most of the photographing in 2013 through 2015.
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Katherine Carver: And some of the organizations are actually not running anymore due to COVID.
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Katherine Carver: But a couple of them are.
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Katherine Carver: But with the shelter, I would say it was a medium.
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Katherine Carver: I don't know exactly how many beds per se, the space they had.
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Katherine Carver: It's a pretty good size.
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Cheryl Kaye: Yeah, see, that's it, you know?
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Cheryl Kaye: And then there's some, cause I have friends who go to shelters, walk the dogs.
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Cheryl Kaye: There are some shelters that you don't even walk, see what broke my heart, cause I had never gotten a dog at a shelter.
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Cheryl Kaye: You know, I had my dogs when I was younger, and then I got it being single, then you get into cats.
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Cheryl Kaye: But this was a planned relationship.
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Cheryl Kaye: I wanted a dog, and I tried going through fosters, and that didn't work out right for me.
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Cheryl Kaye: So I finally went to a shelter, which like I said, it was heartbreaking, but this shelter, you were allowed to walk along, which some shelters don't allow that.
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Cheryl Kaye: You look at a picture, and there's some, even in the shelter, they have dogs that are fostered out, that they have no room for them, so they're on their website.
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Cheryl Kaye: But if I would have looked at Tilly on a website or a picture and not seen her in real life, I don't know if I would have adopted her.
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Cheryl Kaye: She had personality.
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Cheryl Kaye: When they brought her out, I walked through and it said very friendly, gets along with other dogs, which I wanted a friendly dog, because I'm social, I want a social dog.
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Cheryl Kaye: And she is, and she's great with kids.
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Cheryl Kaye: She's not perfect, but she's great with kids.
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Cheryl Kaye: So I don't have any kids, but when you go to the park, there's always kids and they always run around and you don't want any problems.
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Cheryl Kaye: But then they asked me if I wanted to meet her outside.
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Cheryl Kaye: And she just, she had personality.
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Cheryl Kaye: And that's when I decided, yep.
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Cheryl Kaye: I met her on a Saturday.
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Cheryl Kaye: She got fixed on a Monday and I took her home on a Tuesday.
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Cheryl Kaye: So I guess that's what you say, love at first sight.
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Katherine Carver: Yeah.
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Katherine Carver: And similar to what you're saying, a lot of the adopters, because there's a narrative accompanies each dog's photograph.
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Katherine Carver: And I interviewed people at the shelter and rescue organizations for the first photographs of the dog.
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Katherine Carver: And then likewise, with the second image of the dog, I interviewed the adopters.
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Katherine Carver: And a lot of them would say that they saw a picture or they met the dog, and they just knew that that was the one for them.
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Katherine Carver: Sometimes they would have dogs who had previously passed away and come upon another shelter rescue dog and it just was just smitten.
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Katherine Carver: And it's just kind of like kismet.
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Katherine Carver: It just, it just, you just know.
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Cheryl Kaye: Yeah, and the dogs know.
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Cheryl Kaye: But you know, the longer a dog is in the shelter, and it depends, I don't think my Tilly was in that long because she looks sad when I walk by, but you know, she's in a cage, you know.
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Cheryl Kaye: I mean, people in jail have more space than these dogs, but they did have, you know, they're all on cots and they were clean, you know.
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Cheryl Kaye: They really did take good care of the animals, but you could only take as much good care as you could take good care.
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Cheryl Kaye: There's a lot of dogs there.
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Cheryl Kaye: They need, when they get shut down by being in a cage, that's why exercise is the key for us and for dogs.
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Cheryl Kaye: They need to be taken out and a look-see, and you know, you just see if the dog is for you.
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Cheryl Kaye: I think the eyes tell you, when you look in a dog's eyes and they look back at you, and if it clicks with them and it clicks with you, and you just think of, you know, early morning, I'm getting up early.
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Katherine Carver: Yeah, I think you just know, and they do too.
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Cheryl Kaye: So how did you come about wanting to do this?
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Katherine Carver: So I alluded to this earlier.
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Katherine Carver: So my husband and I, at the time before we had our daughter, we rescued Biscuit from a rescue organization out within an hour of where we lived.
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Katherine Carver: And we were, we just called around.
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Katherine Carver: And this one rescue organization said, I have one.
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Katherine Carver: And we didn't even see a photo of him at the time.
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Katherine Carver: And we met him and we just said, you know, we're going to adopt him.
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Katherine Carver: And of course, they do background check on you and whatnot.
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Katherine Carver: We were able to adopt him.
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Katherine Carver: And I just couldn't believe the transformation.
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Katherine Carver: You know, he was so shy.
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Katherine Carver: He turned into a completely different dog within, you know, weeks to months.
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Katherine Carver: He really gained confidence.
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Katherine Carver: He really came out of his shell.
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Katherine Carver: He began to enjoy his life.
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Katherine Carver: You know, he began to trust.
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Katherine Carver: And I just couldn't believe the change and also the change within me.
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Katherine Carver: I had never had a dog in childhood.
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Katherine Carver: This Biscuit was, for both of us, our first dog ever who happened to be a rescue dog.
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Katherine Carver: And he just really opened my eyes to what is, why are these dogs abandoned?
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Katherine Carver: Why are they left?
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Katherine Carver: And I just literally, I know this sounds strange, but literally on a summer day in 2012, the idea just kind of came to me, this concept of trying to follow these dogs.
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Katherine Carver: And it kind of evolved over time.
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Katherine Carver: And I just really wanted to know and raise awareness about how not only does dog rescue and adoption improve the dog's life immensely, but there's also so many benefits to the humans that our lives are fully enriched.
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Katherine Carver: And so I wanted to find a way to, like I said, just bring awareness because these are just incredible sentient beings.
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Katherine Carver: And I cannot imagine not ever, I can't imagine not having a rescue dog.
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Katherine Carver: We will always have a rescue dog.
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Cheryl Kaye: I'm glad to hear that.
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Cheryl Kaye: And it's true, they are.
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Cheryl Kaye: Your life changes.
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Cheryl Kaye: I mean, your life changes.
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Cheryl Kaye: I have a life in between walking and caring and being with my dog.
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Cheryl Kaye: And it's fine with me.
00:14:21.101 --> 00:14:23.761
Cheryl Kaye: But what made you want it?
00:14:23.761 --> 00:14:28.401
Cheryl Kaye: I mean, doing it in black and white was brilliant.
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Cheryl Kaye: But what made you do that?
00:14:30.401 --> 00:14:32.241
Cheryl Kaye: What made you decide that?
00:14:32.241 --> 00:14:37.501
Katherine Carver: I wanted to do that, I think, because the black and white kind of kept everything.
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Katherine Carver: The black backgrounds kept the common thread between all of these dogs, and also really kept the focus on each individual dog.
00:14:47.301 --> 00:14:53.381
Katherine Carver: And they're all square, also keeping it, you know, a common thread continuity within the image.
00:14:53.381 --> 00:14:58.141
Katherine Carver: And it really, I just thought it would really get to the essence of each dog.
00:14:58.141 --> 00:15:10.141
Katherine Carver: And I was hoping to help portray like a juxtaposition between the images, that you can see some sort of emotional, physical change between the images photographically.
00:15:10.141 --> 00:15:12.141
Katherine Carver: That is why I did it, did it in black and white.
00:15:12.221 --> 00:15:14.761
Cheryl Kaye: The cover picture is phenomenal.
00:15:14.761 --> 00:15:19.621
Cheryl Kaye: That dog's eyes and their ears, that dog on the cover is gorgeous.
00:15:19.621 --> 00:15:25.061
Katherine Carver: Her name is Sheila, and I thought she just encompassed the whole project in an image.
00:15:25.061 --> 00:15:29.601
Katherine Carver: And I thought it was striking and eye-catching for people as well.
00:15:29.601 --> 00:15:46.441
Katherine Carver: And I also, I didn't name it like Finding Home or something like that, because I did keep the title Abandoned, because I really wanted to raise attention to, humans can be so kind and adopt these dogs and give these dogs a new life.
00:15:46.441 --> 00:15:52.761
Katherine Carver: Well, at the same time, we as collectively dispose of these dogs so easily.
00:15:52.761 --> 00:15:55.381
Katherine Carver: And it's just unbelievable.
00:15:55.381 --> 00:15:58.361
Katherine Carver: It was kind of unfolding with this project.
00:15:58.361 --> 00:16:00.141
Katherine Carver: I did not know how it was going to turn out.
00:16:00.141 --> 00:16:10.721
Katherine Carver: I just had the concept of trying to photograph these dogs in this way and see if I could make something out of it, because there's no guarantees with all of this.
00:16:10.721 --> 00:16:18.041
Katherine Carver: I mean, I spent a long time working on this, kind of hoping it would get published and kind of just trusting the process.
00:16:18.041 --> 00:16:19.541
Cheryl Kaye: The name is perfect.
00:16:19.541 --> 00:16:21.541
Cheryl Kaye: What was it like to photograph them?
00:16:21.541 --> 00:16:25.361
Cheryl Kaye: I mean, you did it at the shelter or with the force?
00:16:25.421 --> 00:16:26.361
Katherine Carver: Yeah, I did them.
00:16:26.361 --> 00:16:34.741
Katherine Carver: So all the first images were done where they were at the shelter or a foster home through a rescue or shelter or at a rescue.
00:16:34.741 --> 00:16:44.741
Katherine Carver: And it was, I tried to make some comment in the writing about that with, you could just sometimes just see the real sadness with some of these dogs.
00:16:45.521 --> 00:16:51.161
Katherine Carver: I mean, imagine for whatever reason, their life, they're the most loyal companions ever.
00:16:51.161 --> 00:16:56.501
Katherine Carver: And for whatever reason, they find themselves in these circumstances that no one would want, right?
00:16:56.741 --> 00:16:59.601
Katherine Carver: And sometimes you could just see hope.
00:17:00.461 --> 00:17:07.861
Katherine Carver: I just hope to capture them in a way that did them justice, showing them in a way that captured them.
00:17:07.861 --> 00:17:09.461
Cheryl Kaye: I think you did.
00:17:09.461 --> 00:17:22.301
Cheryl Kaye: Because we don't really know the history of the dogs in the shelters, because some of them are returned and then some of them are just strays, born on the street and caught and brought in.
00:17:22.301 --> 00:17:25.101
Cheryl Kaye: So they really maybe don't know of a home.
00:17:25.101 --> 00:17:29.461
Cheryl Kaye: That's also something that people have to deal with when they rescue.
00:17:29.461 --> 00:17:31.021
Cheryl Kaye: We really don't know.
00:17:31.021 --> 00:17:31.761
Katherine Carver: Yeah.
00:17:31.761 --> 00:17:39.101
Katherine Carver: I was able to collect as much as I could, but of course in instances, like you said, you just don't know the entire backstory.
00:17:39.101 --> 00:17:46.801
Katherine Carver: I was able to fill in as many gaps as I could, but there were obviously circumstances where you don't entirely know.
00:17:47.221 --> 00:17:50.121
Cheryl Kaye: Do you think you'll do a follow-up?
00:17:50.121 --> 00:17:50.961
Katherine Carver: Oh gosh.
00:17:50.961 --> 00:17:52.041
Katherine Carver: I don't know.
00:17:52.041 --> 00:17:52.761
Katherine Carver: I don't know.
00:17:54.001 --> 00:18:00.021
Katherine Carver: This project was quite an undertaking, much more than I ever anticipated at its inception.
00:18:00.021 --> 00:18:01.021
Katherine Carver: But I don't know.
00:18:01.021 --> 00:18:02.301
Katherine Carver: You never say never.
00:18:02.301 --> 00:18:13.741
Katherine Carver: Right now, I'm kind of sitting in the present with this book and hope that they can do some good and help these dogs because this was really the intention behind doing the book.
00:18:13.861 --> 00:18:17.121
Katherine Carver: It was one of the most outside of being a parent to a young child.
00:18:17.121 --> 00:18:20.821
Katherine Carver: It's one of the hardest things I've ever done to see this through.
00:18:20.821 --> 00:18:29.041
Cheryl Kaye: You know, I'm glancing through it now because you really do give a very good description of each of the dog, of what you know.
00:18:29.041 --> 00:18:36.261
Cheryl Kaye: And all in all, some of them, some of them have really spent a lot of time in the shelter before they're adopted.
00:18:36.261 --> 00:18:40.601
Katherine Carver: Yeah, I wanted to point that out in some of the data I collected on these dogs.
00:18:40.681 --> 00:18:47.381
Katherine Carver: It was kind of astounding how long some of these dogs were in these situations for such a long time.
00:18:47.541 --> 00:18:55.961
Katherine Carver: And some of them, there were cases of multiple returns as well, even since I photographed them the first time.
00:18:55.961 --> 00:19:09.201
Katherine Carver: So they all have a little bit different stories, but I also think it's really important to point out in all of this is that there are really wonderful people who dedicate themselves to this work that's really important.
00:19:09.481 --> 00:19:20.321
Katherine Carver: Because without the shelters and rescues, we would not be able to matchmake with these dogs, and have these great transformations on both sides.
00:19:20.321 --> 00:19:29.461
Cheryl Kaye: These, they're angels, the fosters and the rescuers, especially the ones that go out and try to catch them in the street, and then care for them.
00:19:29.501 --> 00:19:36.141
Cheryl Kaye: And rescue is an exhausting, exhausting career, if you want to call it that.
00:19:36.141 --> 00:19:47.661
Cheryl Kaye: And then the ones that, they bring them to different locations, so they'll drive one dog two hours, and they meet up with another volunteer, and they take them on these journeys.
00:19:47.661 --> 00:19:55.781
Cheryl Kaye: You see it all over, there's people who fly them from one shelter to another when it gets overbooked, and they don't have enough space.
00:19:55.981 --> 00:20:03.601
Cheryl Kaye: And I think that's sometimes good, because sometimes dogs who stay too long in one shelter, you know, it's just not happening there.
00:20:03.601 --> 00:20:10.041
Cheryl Kaye: Maybe it's just the area, certain areas like certain dogs, and then they should really be moved.
00:20:10.041 --> 00:20:15.141
Cheryl Kaye: But it really is a spectacular book, and I wish you lots of good luck with it.
00:20:15.141 --> 00:20:19.661
Cheryl Kaye: And for anybody, the name of it is Abandoned.
00:20:19.661 --> 00:20:26.761
Cheryl Kaye: Of course, if this is in the window of a bookstore, you are going to get it, because the dog on the cover is stunning.
00:20:27.221 --> 00:20:30.141
Cheryl Kaye: I can't decide, you said her name is Sheila?
00:20:30.141 --> 00:20:31.621
Katherine Carver: Yes, Sheila, yes.
00:20:31.621 --> 00:20:40.141
Cheryl Kaye: Her eyes are just, either she's begging for something or she's trying to tell us something, but she is a spectacular dog.
00:20:40.141 --> 00:20:57.621
Cheryl Kaye: And I'll tell you, your photographs are spot on, and you could tell you did a lot of work, because with the shelters that you got involved with, the amount of time that they were there, and like you said, a lot of them were rescued and then brought back for whatever reason, sadly.
00:20:57.621 --> 00:21:02.741
Cheryl Kaye: You have a lot of accolades in the book of people who really have appreciated it.
00:21:02.741 --> 00:21:06.021
Cheryl Kaye: What is it you say in one thing?
00:21:06.021 --> 00:21:10.841
Cheryl Kaye: Without a dog, a life is only half-lived, and that really is true.
00:21:10.841 --> 00:21:11.361
Katherine Carver: Dr.
00:21:11.361 --> 00:21:12.621
Katherine Carver: Jane Goodall, right?
00:21:12.621 --> 00:21:14.241
Cheryl Kaye: Yes, and that's true.
00:21:14.241 --> 00:21:21.521
Cheryl Kaye: For the sake of all dogs and cats and all these, even horses, it's phenomenal, the amount of animals out there.
00:21:21.981 --> 00:21:35.601
Cheryl Kaye: So I really want to thank you for being on and enlightening us, and I hope that people do pick up this book, because this is something that we really have to address with the amount of animals that need homes.
00:21:35.601 --> 00:21:40.901
Cheryl Kaye: With 330 million people in this country, everybody should have a dog or two.
00:21:40.901 --> 00:21:45.561
Cheryl Kaye: We have two cars, we have more than one pocketbook, more than one phone or TV.
00:21:45.561 --> 00:21:47.881
Cheryl Kaye: So I wish you lots of good luck.
00:21:47.881 --> 00:21:55.801
Cheryl Kaye: Do you want to let any of our listeners know if there's a website that they could contact you for something?
00:21:55.801 --> 00:21:56.801
Katherine Carver: Oh, sure.
00:21:56.801 --> 00:21:57.261
Katherine Carver: Sure.
00:21:57.261 --> 00:21:57.601
Katherine Carver: Yes.
00:21:57.601 --> 00:22:02.761
Katherine Carver: You can find me at katherinecarver.com, and that's katherinecarvezver.com.
00:22:08.241 --> 00:22:13.861
Katherine Carver: And you can find more information about the book and information on how to order the book as well.
00:22:13.861 --> 00:22:16.741
Katherine Carver: And I'm really grateful to have spent the time with you today, Cheryl.
00:22:16.741 --> 00:22:17.601
Cheryl Kaye: I appreciate it.
00:22:17.601 --> 00:22:18.841
Cheryl Kaye: I wish you lots of good luck.
00:22:19.161 --> 00:22:27.901
Cheryl Kaye: And we'll post, when the show posts, of course, the picture will be on, the book will be on, and we'll include the website if people want to get a hold of you.
00:22:27.901 --> 00:22:29.341
Cheryl Kaye: Thank you so much.
00:22:29.341 --> 00:22:34.381
Cheryl Kaye: So I want to thank my listeners and thank Katherine for being on.
00:22:34.381 --> 00:22:36.241
Cheryl Kaye: I want to thank Mark and everybody.
00:22:36.241 --> 00:22:37.261
Cheryl Kaye: Have a great day.
00:22:37.261 --> 00:22:39.461
Cheryl Kaye: And remember to live life unleashed.
00:22:39.461 --> 00:22:40.621
Cheryl Kaye: I'll see you next time.
00:22:40.621 --> 00:22:41.821
Cheryl Kaye: Bye bye.
00:22:41.821 --> 00:22:43.161
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