Unleashed

In this episode of Unleashed, host Cheryl Kaye welcomes back Dr. Dawn Filos, veterinarian and author of Tales of a Pet Vet, for an eye-opening discussion about the vaccines every dog and cat needs — and how often they should get them. Dr. Dawn explains the difference between one-year and three-year vaccines, why leptospirosis is now considered a core vaccine, and what pet owners need to know about rabies, parvo, kennel cough, and even Lyme disease. From dog park safety and heartworm prevention to the myths and misinformation causing a resurgence of preventable diseases, this candid conversation is packed with expert advice every pet parent should hear.

Listen to Episode #85 Now:

BIO:

Dr. Dawn Filos has been a practicing small animal veterinarian for over 31 years. She has taught pet first aid courses, CPR courses, and has always enjoyed educating her clients to enable them to be the best pet parents that they can be. She has a particular interest in sharing the emotional benefits that sharing our lives with pets provides. She speaks much about that, with guides on how to not just train your pets, feed and entertain them, care for them medically… but she discusses topics such as how to navigate pet insurance, and plans for legal trusts to care for your pets when you may not be here to do so… to name a few subjects. She hopes you will learn, laugh, and love subscribing to her blog.

Follow her, and keep an eye out for news on  her upcoming book release, Tales of a Pet Vet. Stories from the Clinic and House Calls,  to be released in October, 2024. It is the perfect gift for pet lovers. Dr. Filos is also available for public speaking engagements and zoom book clubs.

Transcript:

Hi everybody, Cheryl from Unleashed, and today I have a repeat special guest, Dr. Dawn Filos, who's a veterinarian. Hi Dawn, welcome back. Hi, I'm so happy to be back.

Hello everyone. And if you don't remember, it's Tales from a Pet Vet, stories from the clinic and house calls. Yeah, it's Tales of a Pet Vet, but you'll still find me.

And my name, it's spelled F-I-L-O-S, which is always, people always misspell it. Pronounce it. Filos, it's fine.

That's why everybody calls me Dr. Dawn, because it's impossible. And today I want to talk about a few things. I have a list.

I know you want to talk about what you've been doing at the shelter, which I really want to hear, but let's talk about vaccines that our dogs must have, as opposed to the one year and the three year. What do you think? Distemper, rabies, three years is okay for a young, healthy dog? Yeah. So basically, and a lot of people don't understand, there's different types of vaccines and different newly developed vaccines.

So once they get past puppyhood and kittenhood for, we'll talk about both, you know, as a young adult, you usually, you boost the vaccine a year after because of the way immunity works. But then the far majority of the core vaccines are three year vaccines. And so core vaccines are distemper, which is really, the distemper vaccine is a combination of parvo, distemper, and two other diseases.

And they are what are that type of vaccine. So that type of vaccine is an attenuated live vaccine. And that type of immunity, they tweak the viruses enough that it's, but it's more of a strong response, but not so much that they get sick.

And that immunity tends to last longer. And we say three years and that's every three years. The rabies vaccine, even though it's killed, that's also, you know, every three years, truly with cats, but it gets a little more complicated with cats because, and I'll tell you that in a minute, but so the core vaccines are the distemper combination, which includes parvo, which is back by the way, with a vengeance on a lot of parts of the country, rabies vaccine, and leptospirosis.

And leptospirosis is a disease that we used to sort of recommend that be given only in a region for high risk pets, but there is no region now. It's clients to owners and veterinarians. So that has become since 2024, they've been, that's recommended as core.

That vaccine, it's a different type of vaccine. The immunity doesn't last quite as long. And that is once a year.

And then there's other ones like kennel cough, Bordetella. So, you know, people think of Bordetella and there's other vaccines that are, they used to call them non-essential, but they're not core, but they're, they can be essential and life threatening, you know, if that you need to give it, even if they're not the core. So kennel cough, for example, if you have a dog that travels a lot or travels for dog shows or goes to daycare or boards or kennel, stays at a kennel or they, they really need that.

And that tends, there's different forms. And there's some others like influenza and there's a rattlesnake vaccine, which my dog actually got. And that's, of course, that's regional, that's lifestyle.

So if you have a dog that hikes like I do, we give that here in Arizona. And those ones are once a year based on the type of immunity. The situation, the most interesting and important situation about cats, I'll mention briefly is the rabies vaccine.

A lot of people are concerned because there are a very small percentage of cats that used to develop a sarcoma cancer at the injection site. So they developed a different type of vaccine. It had to do combination of specific, whatever it is with certain cats, the way their inflammatory response to vaccines.

And it turns out it was the adjuvant sort of like the solution that the active ingredients in combined put them at risk for that. So they develop these other vaccines that are called Purevax that do not cause it. And now they have another Pure, that's more once a year and costs a little more.

And now they have a Purevax that lasts three years, which is three times the price, but because they're safer, we always recommend them. But shelter, these people that go to outdoor cats and they trap them and vaccinate them, and that's really hard to do. Sometimes it's just cost ineffective.

People don't want to pay the money or it's for that type of medicine. So depending on the type of vaccine, a lot of the core ones are every three years. And then some of the others that are not core, but as needed are about once a year.

And it really depends on the individual dog or cat's lifestyle and risk factors that tell us what to do. Well, you know, sometimes when you go to different vets, they give a group of shots for X amount of dollars. They don't include the three year, they include the one year.

And a lot of us have gotten our dogs from shelters, so we don't know what the titers might be. Like you said, with being puppies or kittens, you could schedule it just like with the baby. I got Tilly at 11 months old, so nobody knows what she had before, probably nothing.

And they just gave her the rabies because in some areas, because we're building so much and encroaching on land that was never used before, wild animals are coming closer to us. So definitely rabies, you have to have. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, definitely, legally, rabies is really the only legally, you know, that you have to require it separate from what we consider core. And I'll tell you, so, and another thing, because you talk about titers, which is a really important thing, there are certain patients, like if we've had a patient that had a terrible reaction to a vaccine, is the benefit worth the risk? You know, we don't, no one wants to deal with that.

So sometimes titers are an option to determine if they've been exposed or vaccinated before. Shelter medicine and rescues, they usually err on the side of caution and it ends up being cheaper, you know, because titers are expensive with rabies to give it. And then moving forward, but, and so it meant for decades, you know, we do titers to see like, oh, the titer says your dog's still protected.

So I would do titers instead of repeating vaccines or for people that just would rather do the titer, regardless of whether or not they had a serious reaction to a prior vaccine, which can happen in certain vaccines, it happens more often. But the only very, very important thing in rabies is in every state, and different states vary, but titers, if you have a bite wound, if you have a pet that's been bit by a wild animal or an unknown animal, and to only, the only way to test for rabies in, so first of all, you, if they're vaccinated, that's great. But if, if they're overdue or have never been vaccinated, a titer, or you don't know if the pet's been vaccinated, a titer is legally, even if the titer says they're probably okay in terms of the levels of protective, it doesn't count, which is super frustrating for various reasons.

The only way to test for rabies is you would quarantine and really be careful and not be exposed to the dog or cat. But if there's any symptoms, they have to test after they're dead. They have to do a test on the brain.

There's no way to test if a pet has been bitten by a rabid animal while they're alive. So it's no joke. And it'd be great to say, oh, we'll do a titer and you're probably fine, but legally it's not allowed.

So that's why it's a frustrating, really difficult. Once you start to see a symptom, you're already dead. Right.

It's a hundred percent. You can't cure it. So with people, let's say somebody, I had my, you know, there's a story in my book.

My friend's daughter got bit by a rabid raccoon in the morning. You know, she was on her porch and they did not even know that, that this could happen. And so it turned out to be rabid.

So then what she did is went to the doctor and they gave prophylactic treatments. And that's like saving. But if you don't know and you don't do that, or if your pet is already showing the symptoms exactly, like immediately you have to act.

You can't wait because the symptoms can take up to six months to show, but if they're showing, it's a hundred percent fatal. So it's the water or fear of water. Yeah.

And they talk about that, but a lot of what we see with, that's more like a human symptom, which we hope to never see, although parts of the world, I mean, it's a huge problem still. And in the U.S. it's extremely rare, but there, you know, I get these graphics from New Jersey and Pennsylvania and notifications, New York, you know, you will see them. And we have these trends where there was just a rabid cat diagnosed in my neighborhood in East Hampton two weeks ago on next door.

Everybody's talking about it. So they have to then trap the cat and euthanize the cat and send the brain off for testing, which is gross, but they proved it. So, you know, these stray animals that are walking around, it happens and you, and it seems to be happening more like the counts kind of go up and down.

I get the graphics for the states that I was a USDA licensed doctor. So we get all that information sent to us and it's, it's, it's real and people, you know, we're not making up the risk and you don't want to like the fact that my friend, a good friend with a vet, she didn't realize that her daughter needed, she didn't know, you know, so it's important to educate people of the risks, not just to the pets, but to people. Okay.

So everybody who's listening, beware of rabies. If you think it, act. That's the most important thing.

And as far as the kennel cough, twice a year, because we go to the dog park and they say, if you go to a dog park and we're talking a lot of dogs, you know, they share, I bring my own water, but you're not going to tell another dog, don't drink my dog's water. So they all slobber on all of us. So is the kennel cough something that you would get twice a year? Oh, interesting.

Cause that, those recommendations change. So here's what the rules are. And then I'll tell you what I did when I, what I do when I practice.

So there's different formats of it. There's an intranasal. So it's like a liquid that they squirt in the nose.

There's the injection. And then there's even an oral. The protection varies.

I happen to think that I used to see breaks in the vaccines, either the intranasal or the under the skin subcutaneous around 10 months. So some dogs there, they say do it once a year, a lot of kennels. And you really got to talk to your daycare and kennel and see what your vet's recommending because they might have rules.

Dog parks don't tend to where they're like, we want it every six months because even though that is recommended once a year, individual States and environments and air or wherever you're, you know, daycare or groomers may have different recommendations. Personally, I used to, because my dog needed to be groomed, I used to give it to her twice a year. Because we have a lot of dogs that come to the park.

And quite frankly, you know, we were talking the other day because somebody brought in a dog. I mean, talk about people. This woman went to a shelter to adopt a dog on her way into the shelter.

This young couple said, do you want my dog? We brought the dog to put it down because we can't care for it. Okay. He says, okay, I'll take the dog.

And she walks away with the dog. She didn't even let them go in intake. She knows nothing about the dog.

So we're looking at this dog and the dog has testicles. I said, no way this dog came from a shelter. They don't let you out with your parts.

And then the guy said his sister got the dog on the doorstep. So now they got to fix the dog. They got to do everything because they know nothing about the dog.

And I said to him, you got to get this dog all the shots because you can't bring this dog here if we don't know anything about him. A young dog, I mean, less than a year. Stunning.

And you know, one of the guys at the dog park say, we don't know what each other does. There's no rules. You know, we don't like sign anything or show anything.

So you're right, unless we do it responsibly because we love our animals, nobody really knows what somebody's doing. Right. You have to, I mean, there's a very few, you know, like in the state of Pennsylvania, they have certain dog parks, but you have to be registered.

You have to have proof of vaccines. It varies from place to place, but generally it's not your dog. It's your responsibility to protect your dog because you can't control the behavior or the vaccination status of other animals.

It's always like, you could be the best driver in the world. It doesn't matter that there's bad drivers out there around you. And the situation, one of the many problems or the situation with dog parks is just that.

But the other thing to keep in mind, because you drinking the water, it is a, any environment, it's an aerosol respiratory, it's, you know, from breathing it in, you get exposed, breathing it in. It could be in the air. Exactly.

It could be, you're more likely, like if you're in a indoor, you know, like a veterinary hospital or in a kennel or in a groomer. But the other thing, why I gave my dog twice a year, because of what I know and because I would have a mobile groomer or I would take her to groomers because it was, they don't usually require it, but they should. It's a confined space where lots of dogs are coming and going.

And those intranasal in particular, I think are extra effective. They don't hurt. You don't have vaccine reaction.

There's very, very rare. So that's one of those risks that I air much more on the side of caution. And for the most part that, so that is what I personally did regardless of the rules, regardless of the immune status.

Because, you know, if you give a vaccine to a sick animal, their immune system is not, you don't have a guarantee that the immune system is going to bulk up that patient to be protected for a year. You know, they're already sick. So just because you give a shot, you also have to give it with thoughts that I'm not going to give it to a sick animal.

I want to give it to a healthy animal so that it, it's not, you're not just checking it off on paper so that it does what it's supposed to do. Because with all these recommendations based on studies that the vaccine manufacturers do to say this one lasts this long, it's an average. Sometimes it's longer.

Sometimes it's shorter. They have to pick a safe average. And there's a very small percent that, very, very small, that it doesn't protect.

But I think you increase that percent when you're giving it just to give it when they're not healthy. And so, but in general, they're far, far safer. I highly recommend vaccines.

And it ends up being cheaper. There was just an article I was going to share on my social media. There's a lot of outbreaks of Parvo because of misinformation.

And there's cases of it that, you know, you can end up spending up to $10,000 treating, hopefully successfully, a case of Parvo. And misinformation, you know, this is a lot. That's why I'm so happy to talk to people like you because it's complicated.

Vaccines are complicated. There's all different types. But when you're hearing, I just hold my vaccines myself.

It's complicated. It's so complicated. I know.

It's not an easy, so it's an easy subject for there to be, oh, they're, they're just trying to make money or they're over vaccinating. And then, you know, all people have a very polarizing, strong opinions. And so you really should get your information from your vet or people that understand it.

And if you don't understand it, then make them take the time so that you make an educated decision as opposed to misinformation, because it can be deadly. It can be expensive. It's no joke.

Parvo, you know, I graduated at vet school in 1992. And these, this distemper vaccine, which people get confused, his temper, his behavior is fine. It's not about his temperament.

It's a virus that I used to see. I remember the first summer I graduated, stray dogs. I saw probably 15 cases of an epidemic, which is usually fatal of distemper.

People don't even, young vets are like, you never see distemper anymore until lately because of this misinformation. And it's so frustrating because we have these vaccines that work, that save lives. And so this constant battle really questioned the source of the information.

Pet owners, we all want to do the right thing for our pets. And, and it's just very frustrating as a veterinarian to see these cases when they're preventable, but people are, for whatever reason, deciding not to vaccinate, not based on a reaction, just based on misinformation. So I want to take a quick break.

And then when we come back, I want to go over a couple of more things. We'll be right back. We're back with Dr. Dawn.

Now, canine adenovirus, is that Kava? Kava? Canine adenovirus. It's one of the five, four or five better. It's a, yeah, it's, there's distemper, adenovirus, parvovirus, and parainfluenza are usually in that combination.

And then sometimes they add another, like a Corona. So sometimes there's an extra. What's this viral for the gastro? You mean the parvovirus? DBV, is that the, the call letters for it? DHLPP.

Yeah. DHLPP or DAPP kind of. And then sometimes there's an additional C is what it is actually.

Have they come up with a vaccine for Lyme disease? Yes. So there are a few vaccines for Lyme disease and there used to be the original vaccine probably 25 years ago. There, I, I, there were more reactions to it and it wasn't quite as good.

There are newer ones that are better, but not to get complicated, but the type of vaccine killed, the way they make the vaccines for Lyme and for lepto, leptospirosis, they have a little increased chance of reactions to it. But I do still think they are worth it. And if I have a patient that has a mild reaction, or sometimes I'll have them pre-treat with something like a Benadryl, if they've had it in the past or sometimes we need stronger meds.

But I mean, you know, coming from my perspective, you know, when you have the leptospirosis can be, if a patient, if a dog gets lepto and in the urine handling, we see veterinarians and veterinary nurses and staff dying of lepto that they caught from patients. You have to be from the, from body fluids and the urine, which this family's at risk. So I don't mess around with lepto, highly recommend giving that.

I have in parentheses next to it, water from drinking water? Yeah. So from water, so pets can get it from water that's contaminated from wild animals or other dogs that get it in. So body fluids, so like urine.

So let's say there's water and it's, you know, where it rained and an animal, it can wash off and then they can lick it off, off the patio. It's surprisingly contagious in that regard. And so that is why lepto is now a core of vaccine because it used to be that they recommended it to you have a pet that hunts or goes out in the woods or where they have access to wildlife.

But as we all know, raccoons and other animals are coming right outside our suburban and sit, they're out there and they carry it. They can carry it. And before they die, they, they urinate you know, sandboxes, different things where it's, and then pets will lick it.

They can get it. They can pass it on mainly through their urine. So and then Lyme, you know, Lyme disease, well, it's a whole other conversation, but there is nothing worse than.

Oh, it's debilitating. Well, and there's, it's debilitating, but it also can be deadly. And there's a Lyme nephritis, we call it, which is kidney failure.

And there are certain breeds a little more prone to that. And it's, it's horrific. No one wants to ever treat it.

No one wants to see it. So that in areas where there are deer at risk, you know, where you can get it from, which is almost like the whole country at this point, you know, so some are super high risk more than others. And I lived in Pennsylvania, Bucks County, which no joke, like bucks or deer, we would see so, so, so many cases exposed to it.

And so, you know, depending upon where you live, your vet will, you know, everything is catered, you outweigh the risk has to be outweighed by the benefit. But each patient has a different lifestyle. You know, if you have dogs, my mom lives in Florida, her dogs don't leave the building, you know, they never go out, they don't need a Lyme vaccine.

And, you know, other dogs that spend a lot of time outside in a high risk area, they do. So each patient's different. We go to the dog park every day, and there's lots of dogs.

One more question, heartworm tested once a year or twice a year? You know, that's a good question. Because pushing twice a year, they're pushing twice, I think it really does vary with the state and the incidents. If your pet is on medication all year area, or whatever, preventative, exactly, then and there's different then I say it's fine once a year.

And I get a lot of resistance for that. I think a lot of people, what they used to do was only treat, you know, for like half of the year or six when mosquitoes are out. But newsflash, global weather changes, humidity, there, there is no season and depending some patients travel back and forth.

I think I would but Florida is a high risk place because mosquitoes. So and it ends up being cheaper and less putting your pet through instead of testing before you if you, you know, I just say give it all year and test once a year from the majority of my patients and their lifestyles and where they live, instead of stopping it and then testing, and then restarting, you know, if, if, if you have a lapse in that, but those changes, sometimes those recommendations change based. And then they give you only medication for six months.

See, that's how they do it. Is this in Florida? Yeah, I think that there's a huge amount of variation state to state with that terrible. We've had a few dogs that, you know, they were adopted and they're fine now, but they ended up spending months in a cage.

Because, you know, if our listeners don't realize that it's like having spaghetti wrapped around your heart, squeezing, right? It's disgusting. It's not even wrapped around it. And when I share pictures on social media, people are like, that's so gross.

But it's just like spaghetti in the heart. And lots of it. It's there.

It's like the size of it. So cats even one. So it's a very challenging as you mentioned, they're in a cage, because the way that you, if you suddenly kill off these large, disgusting worms, they can die and go into the lungs and be fatal.

So they can't have a lot of exercise, the medication. It's, it's a big deal to treat heartworm disease. It's far best avoided.

But, you know, a lot because so many people and it's wonderful to see how many in the last years, how many dogs are getting adopted, there's more no kill shelters. But so many friends and family have adopted heartworm positive dogs and gone through this treatment. And it's a big, big deal.

I have a friend, her daughter lives in Denver, and her dog that she adopted, they don't want him to because of get them too excited, drive back and forth, because of this dog, which took like two years to finally completely get them in the clear. It's and so, of course, it's a reality, because you adopt these dogs. And and we're seeing more of that, but it is far, far easier to prevent it.

And so nobody wants to have to treat a heartworm dog. I have a couple of friends who do not use the medication, they use homeopathic, and they've been very lucky when the dogs get tested. They do not have, you know, heartworm, but I've read articles that it's a lot easier to be proactive than to make it better.

Because like you say, it's expensive. It's heartbreaking. And I don't want to take a chance.

So I use the tablet once a month on the first of the month, you know, till he eats it. She thinks it's a treat, and I could sleep at night. Exactly.

Yeah, you said it right. They're lucky. You said it right.

And and you also are correct. Better to be proactive than reactive. Yeah, I mean, there are things that you could do homopathic.

I'm all for that. But not when it comes to your heart. I wouldn't do that for me.

Agreed. Agreed. I mean, yeah, there are things that people do.

But there, it's a bit of Russian roulette with your pet's health, in my opinion. I don't do it with my health. I'm not doing it.

No, I'm in for the long haul with Tilly. Well, I'm glad. I agree 100%.

But, but all of these things, and it, it's not just it gets more confusing when you're getting different messages from different states. And, and, and so some of the regulations.

.